On June 26 2011 13:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Guys have some faith in the FXO manager, I can't believe people would come into this thread calling what Josh says absurd or trolling when he suggests that Bomber wasn't their biggest concern given matchups and data they collected.
These are the kind of responses from TL users that really make me feel sad, FXO managers and players have no obligation to respond or give information but Josh is making an effort here, and he's met with people not just criticizing his decisions but insulting him.
It's not that difficult to believe Bomber wasn't their biggest concern. FXO could've had players practicing hard against Terran, or have good matchups, or recognize something from additional information. Just because you as a spectator see Bomber as Startale's best player doesn't mean your knowledge is somehow better than theirs. It certainly doesn't warrant you talking in a disrespectful way to a team manager that really deserves our support here.
What do you guys want him to say, "omg we're scared of bomber the instant he comes out it's over?" TBH Bomber is a little overrated as it is, he dropped many games at Dreamhack and looked VERY beatable. If Mana, Sarens, and Haypro can take a game off him there, then plenty of FXO guys can beat him in a Bo1 in GSTL.
Criticism is fine, but be respectful -- I'd be a little happier to even have this discourse rather than use it as an opportunity to flame FXO. Kind of disappointed at some of the posts here.
Disagree 100%. If fxo wants to go around disrespecting the koreans then they should be called out on it. Blindly agreeing with them just because they are foreigners is absurd. I used to like fxo, just because they were willing to take the chance to play in the gstl unlike other teams like mouz/dignatas, but am no longer a fan of theirs.
On June 26 2011 13:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Guys have some faith in the FXO manager, I can't believe people would come into this thread calling what Josh says absurd or trolling when he suggests that Bomber wasn't their biggest concern given matchups and data they collected.
These are the kind of responses from TL users that really make me feel sad, FXO managers and players have no obligation to respond or give information but Josh is making an effort here, and he's met with people not just criticizing his decisions but insulting him.
It's not that difficult to believe Bomber wasn't their biggest concern. FXO could've had players practicing hard against Terran, or have good matchups, or recognize something from additional information. Just because you as a spectator see Bomber as Startale's best player doesn't mean your knowledge is somehow better than theirs. It certainly doesn't warrant you talking in a disrespectful way to a team manager that really deserves our support here.
What do you guys want him to say, "omg we're scared of bomber the instant he comes out it's over?" TBH Bomber is a little overrated as it is, he dropped many games at Dreamhack and looked VERY beatable. If Mana, Sarens, and Haypro can take a game off him there, then plenty of FXO guys can beat him in a Bo1 in GSTL.
Criticism is fine, but be respectful -- I'd be a little happier to even have this discourse rather than use it as an opportunity to flame FXO. Kind of disappointed at some of the posts here.
Disagree 100%. If fxo wants to go around disrespecting the koreans then they should be called out on it. Blindly agreeing with them just because they are foreigners is absurd. I used to like fxo, just because they were willing to take the chance to play in the gstl unlike other teams like mouz/dignatas, but am no longer a fan of theirs.
I don't see how it's disrespectful to tell you our opinions and thoughts. We believe that bomber isn't the strongest player on their lineup; we're not saying he isn't a good player. You may be misinterpreting what we've been saying...
On June 26 2011 13:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Guys have some faith in the FXO manager, I can't believe people would come into this thread calling what Josh says absurd or trolling when he suggests that Bomber wasn't their biggest concern given matchups and data they collected.
These are the kind of responses from TL users that really make me feel sad, FXO managers and players have no obligation to respond or give information but Josh is making an effort here, and he's met with people not just criticizing his decisions but insulting him.
It's not that difficult to believe Bomber wasn't their biggest concern. FXO could've had players practicing hard against Terran, or have good matchups, or recognize something from additional information. Just because you as a spectator see Bomber as Startale's best player doesn't mean your knowledge is somehow better than theirs. It certainly doesn't warrant you talking in a disrespectful way to a team manager that really deserves our support here.
What do you guys want him to say, "omg we're scared of bomber the instant he comes out it's over?" TBH Bomber is a little overrated as it is, he dropped many games at Dreamhack and looked VERY beatable. If Mana, Sarens, and Haypro can take a game off him there, then plenty of FXO guys can beat him in a Bo1 in GSTL.
Criticism is fine, but be respectful -- I'd be a little happier to even have this discourse rather than use it as an opportunity to flame FXO. Kind of disappointed at some of the posts here.
On June 26 2011 13:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Guys have some faith in the FXO manager, I can't believe people would come into this thread calling what Josh says absurd or trolling when he suggests that Bomber wasn't their biggest concern given matchups and data they collected.
These are the kind of responses from TL users that really make me feel sad, FXO managers and players have no obligation to respond or give information but Josh is making an effort here, and he's met with people not just criticizing his decisions but insulting him.
It's not that difficult to believe Bomber wasn't their biggest concern. FXO could've had players practicing hard against Terran, or have good matchups, or recognize something from additional information. Just because you as a spectator see Bomber as Startale's best player doesn't mean your knowledge is somehow better than theirs. It certainly doesn't warrant you talking in a disrespectful way to a team manager that really deserves our support here.
What do you guys want him to say, "omg we're scared of bomber the instant he comes out it's over?" TBH Bomber is a little overrated as it is, he dropped many games at Dreamhack and looked VERY beatable. If Mana, Sarens, and Haypro can take a game off him there, then plenty of FXO guys can beat him in a Bo1 in GSTL.
Criticism is fine, but be respectful -- I'd be a little happier to even have this discourse rather than use it as an opportunity to flame FXO. Kind of disappointed at some of the posts here.
Disagree 100%. If fxo wants to go around disrespecting the koreans then they should be called out on it. Blindly agreeing with them just because they are foreigners is absurd. I used to like fxo, just because they were willing to take the chance to play in the gstl unlike other teams like mouz/dignatas, but am no longer a fan of theirs.
Exactly.. its not hard to believe? its incredibly hard to believe when the manager says something like "based on ladder pts, we have concluded bomber/july are ST's weakest link" if he cannot provide a solid explanation then he should not comment on the korean players, and these "comments" will be seen as disrespecting said korean players, who we all know and respect. its would be like me coming in here and saying SHETH and QXC are both weak/bad because they have no GSL past performance. see? thats trolling, and its the equivalent of saying "blah blah bomber blah blah july blah blah they bad, because ladder points."
On June 26 2011 13:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Guys have some faith in the FXO manager, I can't believe people would come into this thread calling what Josh says absurd or trolling when he suggests that Bomber wasn't their biggest concern given matchups and data they collected.
These are the kind of responses from TL users that really make me feel sad, FXO managers and players have no obligation to respond or give information but Josh is making an effort here, and he's met with people not just criticizing his decisions but insulting him.
It's not that difficult to believe Bomber wasn't their biggest concern. FXO could've had players practicing hard against Terran, or have good matchups, or recognize something from additional information. Just because you as a spectator see Bomber as Startale's best player doesn't mean your knowledge is somehow better than theirs. It certainly doesn't warrant you talking in a disrespectful way to a team manager that really deserves our support here.
What do you guys want him to say, "omg we're scared of bomber the instant he comes out it's over?" TBH Bomber is a little overrated as it is, he dropped many games at Dreamhack and looked VERY beatable. If Mana, Sarens, and Haypro can take a game off him there, then plenty of FXO guys can beat him in a Bo1 in GSTL.
Criticism is fine, but be respectful -- I'd be a little happier to even have this discourse rather than use it as an opportunity to flame FXO. Kind of disappointed at some of the posts here.
Disagree 100%. If fxo wants to go around disrespecting the koreans then they should be called out on it. Blindly agreeing with them just because they are foreigners is absurd. I used to like fxo, just because they were willing to take the chance to play in the gstl unlike other teams like mouz/dignatas, but am no longer a fan of theirs.
Exactly.. its not hard to believe? its incredibly hard to believe when the manager says something like "based on ladder pts, we have concluded bomber/july are ST's weakest link" if he cannot provide a solid explanation then he should not comment on the korean players, and these "comments" will be seen as disrespecting said korean players, who we all know and respect. its would be like me coming in here and saying SHETH and QXC are both weak/bad because they have no GSL past performance. see? thats trolling, and its the equivalent of saying "blah blah bomber blah blah july blah blah they bad, because ladder points."
He said they weren't the hardest, not that they were the weakest link. This is in no way disrespecting either of those guys. Obviously he recognizes that both of them are great players, but he felt that they would not be the biggest challenge for his team to face. Maybe they were more prepared to face Bomber/July, maybe they have some reason to fear some other player more.
On June 26 2011 13:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Guys have some faith in the FXO manager, I can't believe people would come into this thread calling what Josh says absurd or trolling when he suggests that Bomber wasn't their biggest concern given matchups and data they collected.
These are the kind of responses from TL users that really make me feel sad, FXO managers and players have no obligation to respond or give information but Josh is making an effort here, and he's met with people not just criticizing his decisions but insulting him.
It's not that difficult to believe Bomber wasn't their biggest concern. FXO could've had players practicing hard against Terran, or have good matchups, or recognize something from additional information. Just because you as a spectator see Bomber as Startale's best player doesn't mean your knowledge is somehow better than theirs. It certainly doesn't warrant you talking in a disrespectful way to a team manager that really deserves our support here.
What do you guys want him to say, "omg we're scared of bomber the instant he comes out it's over?" TBH Bomber is a little overrated as it is, he dropped many games at Dreamhack and looked VERY beatable. If Mana, Sarens, and Haypro can take a game off him there, then plenty of FXO guys can beat him in a Bo1 in GSTL.
Criticism is fine, but be respectful -- I'd be a little happier to even have this discourse rather than use it as an opportunity to flame FXO. Kind of disappointed at some of the posts here.
Disagree 100%. If fxo wants to go around disrespecting the koreans then they should be called out on it. Blindly agreeing with them just because they are foreigners is absurd. I used to like fxo, just because they were willing to take the chance to play in the gstl unlike other teams like mouz/dignatas, but am no longer a fan of theirs.
Exactly.. its not hard to believe? its incredibly hard to believe when the manager says something like "based on ladder pts, we have concluded bomber/july are ST's weakest link" if he cannot provide a solid explanation then he should not comment on the korean players, and these "comments" will be seen as disrespecting said korean players, who we all know and respect. its would be like me coming in here and saying SHETH and QXC are both weak/bad because they have no GSL past performance. see? thats trolling, and its the equivalent of saying "blah blah bomber blah blah july blah blah they bad, because ladder points."
He said they weren't the hardest, not that they were the weakest link. This is in no way disrespecting either of those guys. Obviously he recognizes that both of them are great players, but he felt that they would not be the biggest challenge for his team to face. Maybe they were more prepared to face Bomber/July, maybe they have some reason to fear some other player more.
Bro, don't you get it? These random posters clearly know more. They have all of the inside information on FXO's strongest matchups including maps and know that July and Bomber were the biggest problems. They're masters of the SC2 universe. They could run FXO better from their basements because they're that well versed in all of the details.
On June 26 2011 13:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Guys have some faith in the FXO manager, I can't believe people would come into this thread calling what Josh says absurd or trolling when he suggests that Bomber wasn't their biggest concern given matchups and data they collected.
These are the kind of responses from TL users that really make me feel sad, FXO managers and players have no obligation to respond or give information but Josh is making an effort here, and he's met with people not just criticizing his decisions but insulting him.
It's not that difficult to believe Bomber wasn't their biggest concern. FXO could've had players practicing hard against Terran, or have good matchups, or recognize something from additional information. Just because you as a spectator see Bomber as Startale's best player doesn't mean your knowledge is somehow better than theirs. It certainly doesn't warrant you talking in a disrespectful way to a team manager that really deserves our support here.
What do you guys want him to say, "omg we're scared of bomber the instant he comes out it's over?" TBH Bomber is a little overrated as it is, he dropped many games at Dreamhack and looked VERY beatable. If Mana, Sarens, and Haypro can take a game off him there, then plenty of FXO guys can beat him in a Bo1 in GSTL.
Criticism is fine, but be respectful -- I'd be a little happier to even have this discourse rather than use it as an opportunity to flame FXO. Kind of disappointed at some of the posts here.
Disagree 100%. If fxo wants to go around disrespecting the koreans then they should be called out on it. Blindly agreeing with them just because they are foreigners is absurd. I used to like fxo, just because they were willing to take the chance to play in the gstl unlike other teams like mouz/dignatas, but am no longer a fan of theirs.
Exactly.. its not hard to believe? its incredibly hard to believe when the manager says something like "based on ladder pts, we have concluded bomber/july are ST's weakest link" if he cannot provide a solid explanation then he should not comment on the korean players, and these "comments" will be seen as disrespecting said korean players, who we all know and respect. its would be like me coming in here and saying SHETH and QXC are both weak/bad because they have no GSL past performance. see? thats trolling, and its the equivalent of saying "blah blah bomber blah blah july blah blah they bad, because ladder points."
He said they weren't the hardest, not that they were the weakest link. This is in no way disrespecting either of those guys. Obviously he recognizes that both of them are great players, but he felt that they would not be the biggest challenge for his team to face. Maybe they were more prepared to face Bomber/July, maybe they have some reason to fear some other player more.
Bro, don't you get it? These random posters clearly know more. They have all of the inside information on FXO's strongest matchups including maps and know that July and Bomber were the biggest problems. They're masters of the SC2 universe. They could run FXO better from their basements because they're that well versed in all of the details.
I guess you're right. I'll try to use better judgement before I post next time, thanks!
Disagree 100%. If fxo wants to go around disrespecting the koreans then they should be called out on it. Blindly agreeing with them just because they are foreigners is absurd. I used to like fxo, just because they were willing to take the chance to play in the gstl unlike other teams like mouz/dignatas, but am no longer a fan of theirs.
I don't understand how you can go from "not our biggest concern" to "hes a bad player" FXO has nothing but respect from every korean player, having been in that code A qualifier room NO ONE who is on a korean team is bad at this game there are only levels of how good they are, underestimating someone is the worst possible thing you can do. We have been in Korea about 2 weeks now, we all uprooted our lives, left our girlfriends and we are of course putting out all into it. All of our players myself and wolf included spend god knows how many hours/days researching everything we have ever seen of ST, including practicing ALOT with "insert KR team" who were immensly helpful not only in identifying our strengths/weaknesses but other teams players aswell. From all of that we concluded that our biggest fear from ST was Ace/July. Due to the format of GSTL that is what we based our movements on, keeping certain players from the roster.
On June 26 2011 08:16 inamorato wrote:
I hate to come in here and be critical, because I really hope that FXO performs to their capacity but...To suggest that online ladder and GSTL is in anyway, shape, or form of the same relativity is absurd.
Refer to above, we cannot express how important it is that alot of information must be kept from an open forum. so please be open minded about this when we are trying to explain things
On June 26 2011 12:50 Traumatizer wrote: I find it a bit lame that FXO is using a high percentage Korean players. I feel the community was looking forward to FXO moving there because they wanted to see how a foreigner team would match up against Korean teams. Using Korean players makes me lose some of the excitement from watching their matches.
In the first match they played, 2 out of the 4 players they picked were Korean. Yes Moonan has been playing from NA for a bit now but he is Korean born and raised and to me that doesn't make him a foreigner just like Huk, Idra, and Jinro playing in Korea doesn't make them Korean.
Maybe FXO will use more foreigners in the future and it was just by chance that they used 50% of their picks on Koreans in their first game but i doubt it. This is because FXO's main priority should be winning. I mean if I was the coach of FXO I would do whatever gives the team the best chance of winning. That probably means playing Moonan and the few Koreans they picked up since moving there. It still feels a bit lame in the end though.
Does anyone else feel the same?
What the f*** is the racist bullshit. Just because Moonan is Korean doesn't make him a foreigner? He's just as much a foreigner as the rest of us.
No one gives a damn about what players they use. They're in team FXO and that's all the matters. GTFO...
On June 26 2011 12:50 Traumatizer wrote: I find it a bit lame that FXO is using a high percentage Korean players. I feel the community was looking forward to FXO moving there because they wanted to see how a foreigner team would match up against Korean teams. Using Korean players makes me lose some of the excitement from watching their matches.
In the first match they played, 2 out of the 4 players they picked were Korean. Yes Moonan has been playing from NA for a bit now but he is Korean born and raised and to me that doesn't make him a foreigner just like Huk, Idra, and Jinro playing in Korea doesn't make them Korean.
Maybe FXO will use more foreigners in the future and it was just by chance that they used 50% of their picks on Koreans in their first game but i doubt it. This is because FXO's main priority should be winning. I mean if I was the coach of FXO I would do whatever gives the team the best chance of winning. That probably means playing Moonan and the few Koreans they picked up since moving there. It still feels a bit lame in the end though.
Does anyone else feel the same?
What the f*** is the racist bullshit. Just because Moonan is Korean doesn't make him a foreigner? He's just as much a foreigner as the rest of us.
No one gives a damn about what players they use. They're in team FXO and that's all the matters. GTFO...
yeah that's pretty lame and insulting as hell to people like me, korean living in america. I would NOT count as a "korean" player, and would more comfortably be called a foreign player. In fact, i'd argue that Idra is more "korean" than I am, as "korean" generally is being used in reference to the infrastructure under which they were trained.
by your logic nearly every basketball player in the US is African and the best player in the US can't be black, because they're of African descent. Stupid huh? yeah exactly.
EPT
