• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:56
CET 15:56
KST 23:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2?
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How Does UI/UX Design Influence User Trust? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2459 users

Catz's argument explained - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 Next All
zimz
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States510 Posts
June 19 2011 23:12 GMT
#601
if they start banning people by race, or nationality, i'm done watching SC2.
zimz
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
June 19 2011 23:13 GMT
#602
On June 20 2011 08:06 aiz9r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 07:49 rysecake wrote:
On June 20 2011 07:39 aiz9r wrote:
If the foreigners are unwilling to accept this challenge and adapt to Korean training methods, then we will see the same as in BW.


srsly, how are the foreigners supposed to live and train like koreans when there is no chance at all for them to earn the money needed the live such a life? you just can't squeeze in 10+ hours of training after a 9-5 job. and you can't quit your job because there is just no way to ever be able to catch up with them over a short period of time.


Koreans did the same back at the beginning of sc1. So basically you want reward without any sacrifice? If you aren't willing to take the risk, then you aren't deserving of the reward. At the beginning of sc1, before the infrastructure was established, people dropped out of schools and quit their jobs in order to dedicate their lives to starcraft. That commitment is what pushed them to the top. Foreigners seem to only want the easy way out.


if everyone startet at zero, just like back at the beginning of sc1, then yeah, its true. but tell me, do you think there is a chance a dedicated EU/NA player can make up the 4, 5, maybe 6 years of expierience that the best koreans have in a decent amount of time? there may be 1 or 2 player a year with so much raw talent that they can pull it off in maybe 6 month, but you cannot call 2 player a sc2 scene.

and you can only practice so much if you have to spend half of your playingtime grinding all the daily cups with mediocre competition just to make a living when all the big events are practically unwinable atm


Then the foreigner scene will never catch up. Not that I didn't already know that. I personally have no problem with a segregated scene like in sc1 since I watch the game for the game. But others will not feel the same way I do.
The Notorious Winkles
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-19 23:17:25
June 19 2011 23:17 GMT
#603
On June 20 2011 08:11 Malgrif wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 08:08 gosu86 wrote:
I find it funny that everyone in this thread is saying oh yea but in na or whatever we got to work 9-5 and how are you suppose to practice? lol

the argument is so flawed because you can apply the same concept to the koreans

what ya got to say now

code s koreans live in a house dedicated to sc2, all their living expenses are taken care of and their only real responsibility is to play sc2. top foreigners don't have that.


FXO / Root (before they left) / EG / Swedish House have something to say about that.
Powerforged2
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada48 Posts
June 19 2011 23:20 GMT
#604
Tim Thomas is way too good to be playing in the NHL and is clearly OP, he should not have been allowed to play in the SCF

Dirk Nowitzki is way to tall and is completely OP, who can block his shots.. way too good for the NBA he shouldn't be allowed to play in the NBA finals

A true sports/e-sports fan shouldn't care about who's playing or what country they are from. We wanna see awesome games played by the best of the best


Winnipeg, MB (GO JETS GO!!!)
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
June 19 2011 23:22 GMT
#605
On June 20 2011 08:20 Powerforged2 wrote:
Tim Thomas is way too good to be playing in the NHL and is clearly OP, he should not have been allowed to play in the SCF

Dirk Nowitzki is way to tall and is completely OP, who can block his shots.. way too good for the NBA he shouldn't be allowed to play in the NBA finals

A true sports/e-sports fan shouldn't care about who's playing or what country they are from. We wanna see awesome games played by the best of the best




That pretty much sums it up :p you can't ban players cause they are too good.
caseeker
Profile Joined April 2010
United States63 Posts
June 19 2011 23:22 GMT
#606
I understand that they don't go to Korea for GSL, but seriously, banning Korean for league????
Why don't they just stop playing sc2 and get an actual job, these kids are the ones who ruin the esports
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
June 19 2011 23:23 GMT
#607
On June 20 2011 07:39 aiz9r wrote:
Show nested quote +
If the foreigners are unwilling to accept this challenge and adapt to Korean training methods, then we will see the same as in BW.


srsly, how are the foreigners supposed to live and train like koreans when there is no chance at all for them to earn the money needed the live such a life? you just can't squeeze in 10+ hours of training after a 9-5 job. and you can't quit your job because there is just no way to ever be able to catch up with them over a short period of time.


What are you talking about, every single foreigner invited this DH plays SC2 fulltime already afaik. Stop making excuses.
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
June 19 2011 23:39 GMT
#608
On June 20 2011 07:39 aiz9r wrote:
Show nested quote +
If the foreigners are unwilling to accept this challenge and adapt to Korean training methods, then we will see the same as in BW.


srsly, how are the foreigners supposed to live and train like koreans when there is no chance at all for them to earn the money needed the live such a life? you just can't squeeze in 10+ hours of training after a 9-5 job. and you can't quit your job because there is just no way to ever be able to catch up with them over a short period of time.


How many top non-Korean progamers have 9-5 jobs?
deerpark87
Profile Joined January 2011
760 Posts
June 19 2011 23:46 GMT
#609
On June 20 2011 07:39 aiz9r wrote:
Show nested quote +
If the foreigners are unwilling to accept this challenge and adapt to Korean training methods, then we will see the same as in BW.


srsly, how are the foreigners supposed to live and train like koreans when there is no chance at all for them to earn the money needed the live such a life? you just can't squeeze in 10+ hours of training after a 9-5 job. and you can't quit your job because there is just no way to ever be able to catch up with them over a short period of time.


Destiny makes 4k USD per month just from streaming SC2 on JTV. He quit his day job to be a pro gamer. Also, most foreigner has a salary and expense paid to travel around the world for tournaments from their teams.
starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
June 19 2011 23:48 GMT
#610
On June 20 2011 08:12 zimz wrote:
if they start banning people by race, or nationality, i'm done watching SC2.


See you later then because they have already done it in many tournaments.
starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
June 19 2011 23:50 GMT
#611
On June 20 2011 08:39 Sein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 07:39 aiz9r wrote:
If the foreigners are unwilling to accept this challenge and adapt to Korean training methods, then we will see the same as in BW.


srsly, how are the foreigners supposed to live and train like koreans when there is no chance at all for them to earn the money needed the live such a life? you just can't squeeze in 10+ hours of training after a 9-5 job. and you can't quit your job because there is just no way to ever be able to catch up with them over a short period of time.


How many top non-Korean progamers have 9-5 jobs?


Bomber goes to school full time and he appears to be shitting on everyone everwhere. He's an art student which technically doesn't really count, but still... it's some responsability.
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
June 19 2011 23:54 GMT
#612
On June 20 2011 08:50 starcraft911 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 08:39 Sein wrote:
On June 20 2011 07:39 aiz9r wrote:
If the foreigners are unwilling to accept this challenge and adapt to Korean training methods, then we will see the same as in BW.


srsly, how are the foreigners supposed to live and train like koreans when there is no chance at all for them to earn the money needed the live such a life? you just can't squeeze in 10+ hours of training after a 9-5 job. and you can't quit your job because there is just no way to ever be able to catch up with them over a short period of time.


How many top non-Korean progamers have 9-5 jobs?


Bomber goes to school full time and he appears to be shitting on everyone everwhere. He's an art student which technically doesn't really count, but still... it's some responsability.


Starcraft is an art!
The Notorious Winkles
lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
June 19 2011 23:54 GMT
#613
On June 20 2011 08:12 pAzand wrote:
Every country/region should have a EPS with professional players and teams. But we need the big tournaments to, like Dreamhack/MLG/NASL/IEM. And for those, everyone are welcome, just like the foreigners are welcome to the GSL and to the teamhouses/GOM foreigner house to train and compete but the problem is, like stated in various shows and discussions that Code A don't give enough money for the foreign players. What we need are both more players competing in Korea and better team houses in the west. The foreign scene has gone a long way but if you don't put in the time other players (Koreans, Huk, Jinro) do, you can't expect to compete. The chance to train that hard is out there for many foreigners but they rather take the easy money and the easy route in the west, I'm glad the Koreans come over and compete for our prize pools.

On a sidenote, the NASL shouldn't be played online, it should be like the GSL, I guess that's what CatZ is saying and who can really argue with that? It would have been amazing but you gotta start somewhere right? And the big names like Nada, MC, July and Boxer gives so much more revenue than only NA/EU players, hopefully leading to something more, something worthy of the western scene?


Korea is the only country where you can have an offline tournament taking place all month every month. None of those other countrys have enough good players to make it financially viable.

If the NASL were offline then A) the standard of play would be pretty poor and most people wouldn't watch or would watch it a lot less and B) The country is far too big, it would require the entire NA scene to relocate to California or whichever city they chose to host it in, which is again unrealistic.

Even if there were a European equivalent, the Germans, Eastern Europeans, French etc.. can't/won't just relocate to Sweden at the drop of a hat.

Korea is a smallish country with a massive player base which makes a continuous LAN tournament viable.
aiz9r
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany32 Posts
June 19 2011 23:56 GMT
#614
every single foreigner invited this DH plays SC2 fulltime already afaik.


foreigner = everyone not from korea? cause i was referring to foreigners as gamers not from the korean scene. and i highly doubt that all those invited to dreamhack play SC2 fulltime...

just look at their winnings for the year up to the 1st of june

nightend ~1500$
happy ~ 2300$
tarson ~ 1800$
elfi - 1200$
mana - 1000$
predy - 350$
adel - 2800$

no way to live of of that for 6 months

lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
June 19 2011 23:58 GMT
#615
On June 20 2011 08:56 aiz9r wrote:
Show nested quote +
every single foreigner invited this DH plays SC2 fulltime already afaik.


foreigner = everyone not from korea? cause i was referring to foreigners as gamers not from the korean scene. and i highly doubt that all those invited to dreamhack play SC2 fulltime...

just look at their winnings for the year up to the 1st of june

nightend ~1500$
happy ~ 2300$
tarson ~ 1800$
elfi - 1200$
mana - 1000$
predy - 350$
adel - 2800$

no way to live of of that for 6 months



Streaming, coaching, sponsors, teams. Not that guys like that are living as Kings (some might have jobs) but prize money isn't something any players rely on to pay bills.
Ocedic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1808 Posts
June 20 2011 00:07 GMT
#616
On June 20 2011 08:48 starcraft911 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 08:12 zimz wrote:
if they start banning people by race, or nationality, i'm done watching SC2.


See you later then because they have already done it in many tournaments.


None that matter.
Cade)Flayer
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom279 Posts
June 20 2011 00:19 GMT
#617
Starcraft 2 is a solo game, like tennis, golf or boxing. Comparing Starcraft 2 to team sports like football or basketball is a flawed comparison. One thing you'll notice with individual sports is that the competitors compete worldwide, not just nationally.
That boys a monster
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
June 20 2011 00:25 GMT
#618
Honestly I have to ask who watches the craftcup or the iccup or the other smaller tournaments on a regular basis; that's right. No one.

Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
June 20 2011 00:48 GMT
#619
On June 20 2011 08:50 starcraft911 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 08:39 Sein wrote:
On June 20 2011 07:39 aiz9r wrote:
If the foreigners are unwilling to accept this challenge and adapt to Korean training methods, then we will see the same as in BW.


srsly, how are the foreigners supposed to live and train like koreans when there is no chance at all for them to earn the money needed the live such a life? you just can't squeeze in 10+ hours of training after a 9-5 job. and you can't quit your job because there is just no way to ever be able to catch up with them over a short period of time.


How many top non-Korean progamers have 9-5 jobs?


Bomber goes to school full time and he appears to be shitting on everyone everwhere. He's an art student which technically doesn't really count, but still... it's some responsability.


Yeah, Nada has been (or at least had been until recently) a full time college student while producing consistently good results in GSL as well. It's not that all foreigners are busy with their 9-5 jobs, many of them just don't seem to be willing to put in the amount of practice time players living in Korea are committing every day.
gosu86
Profile Joined June 2011
208 Posts
June 20 2011 00:50 GMT
#620
On June 20 2011 09:25 Gamegene wrote:
Honestly I have to ask who watches the craftcup or the iccup or the other smaller tournaments on a regular basis; that's right. No one.



rofl i ve never even heard of those
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 142
SKillous 89
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50695
Sea 4581
Rain 3498
EffOrt 1196
PianO 954
Soma 363
Shuttle 331
Mini 286
ggaemo 209
firebathero 202
[ Show more ]
Light 194
BeSt 164
Mong 163
Rush 152
Snow 133
Sharp 130
Hyun 113
Zeus 92
Barracks 87
hero 74
JYJ 64
Terrorterran 58
Mind 53
Leta 51
Sexy 22
zelot 20
scan(afreeca) 16
yabsab 13
Shine 11
Bale 10
JulyZerg 10
SilentControl 10
Dota 2
qojqva4507
XcaliburYe808
Fuzer 225
League of Legends
Reynor38
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2924
zeus1412
edward202
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor213
Other Games
singsing2258
crisheroes385
Mlord157
XaKoH 140
B2W.Neo18
Organizations
StarCraft 2
CranKy Ducklings133
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 83
• HeavenSC 29
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota294
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
2h 4m
Elazer vs Nicoract
Reynor vs Scarlett
Replay Cast
10h 4m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
OSC
3 days
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.