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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
 Actually someone should do that. Please? I think a lot of people are just being nostalgic, sc2 is a new game, and i'm sure blizzard is perfectly in touch with the community. They also try and not make any drastic changes which i like, and so far i'd say the game is heading in the right direction. People who played BW will always like BW more, same reason i still think Starfox 64 was one of the best games of all time. | ||
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Shagg
Finland825 Posts
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
only play blizzard games | ||
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Tremendous
Denmark155 Posts
Terrans could say the same of the baneling or infestor. They are certainly very powerful situationaly, same as the colossus. But there are way to deal with both. Same with the colossus. It's true that the colossus doesnt require a ton of micro and that it is generaly a very powerful T3 unit but that doesnt mean that it's broken and needs a complete redesign. I think it's very important to remember the difference between powerful, hard-to-deal-with units and boring, rarely used units. EDIT: cause i suck | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:17 Shagg wrote: Dissapointed in Blizzard being so ignorant. This, but I just don't get it. Blizzard are not supposed to be ignorant. During Beta and even after all patchs, it was obvious that they had been looking on our forums and were trained to tell exactly what we wanted to hear. It's true that Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about the master/grand master leagues which represent 1-2% of their overall turnover, but they are supposed to pretend otherwise... edit:maybe had they larger expectations for the eSports scene and now think that it is a financial blackhole... | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On June 12 2011 20:39 StarStruck wrote: Wow, I don't remember him saying the first bit. Was that in the Sen meets Blizzard video? Because I watched it, but I really don't remember him making that comment. That's really off putting considering units in SC2 are the opposite of that. There are more hard counters in this game than not. :/ It wasn't in the Sen / Browder video. It was in another interview. Here it is. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=217398 | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:00 oGs420 wrote: Cliff walking walking through units 9 range Fast T3 unit speed All of these makes the colosuss require 0 micro. It's such a powerful unit yet even someone in practice league can use it perfectly. HTs are much better because it takes some form of skill to make them more effective. I find it amazing so many Protoss are defending the Colossus. If Blizzard ever gets player support to balance the game I sure as hell don't want them getting it from Protoss players. And yet all of my diamond opponents can't manage their colossii for shit. I'm not kidding, any kind of attempt to get 6 colossus in my experience ends in 6 corruption spell casts and 6 dead colossii. I know there are players out there with the skill to micro them away from my corruptors while sniping them with their stalkers or void rays while not getting demolished by roaches but I don't meet them on the ladder. I'd like you to stop with these ridiculous claims that MC and BelowBronzeBob have the same effectiveness as each other when using any unit, let alone a T3 cliffwalking Colossus. You and many others are making thinly veiled OP balance complaints when you should be discussing whether a unit is interesting/useful or not. And I'll be damn blind and deaf before I believe anyone that says colossii are useless . | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:15 Deadlyfish wrote: Aww, i was expecting a cover of the amazing "Out of Touch" by Hall and Oates Actually someone should do that. Please? I think a lot of people are just being nostalgic, sc2 is a new game, and i'm sure blizzard is perfectly in touch with the community. They also try and not make any drastic changes which i like, and so far i'd say the game is heading in the right direction. People who played BW will always like BW more, same reason i still think Starfox 64 was one of the best games of all time. I would say that cod mod 1 was better than cod 3 or the other predecessors. I would consider WoW better than the games it was designed after. Final fantasy 7 is better than FF1-4 imo. Just maybe..... SC:BW is better because it's a better game..... Really though, I just don't understand how the reaver and lurker aren't as iconic as the tank :'(. Or how the sci vessel and defiler can't be in the game but the ht can. Or why the marauder is added to counter the roach but the hydralisk doesn't do anything to terran in general. I can even accept that the stalker replaced the goon because too many goons died at the end of bw. I'm fine with the scout going away (miss the Sair tho, even tho it was effectively replaced by the phoenix). I like that they didn't change the marine too much. I like the upgrades to the ui and stuff. I don't like the pathing but that is because sc1's pathing was soo bad. Anyways. just a point. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:25 sluggaslamoo wrote: It wasn't in the Sen / Browder video. It was in another interview. Here it is. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=217398 Ah, thank you. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:15 TheSubtleArt wrote: Regarding the bolded part, it's a stupid statement because we don't have the same training and expertise a developer does. You have to look at evertything relatively. Are blizzard developers better than random joe on teamliquid? No shit. The question you have to ask is are blizzard developers better than other developers? Better than Brood War's developers? Because the fact that they can make a game better than me means nothing considering I know nothing about making games So when you say SC2 developers don't know what they're doing, exactly what are you proposing they do? Go dig up the old BW developer team and put them all in charge? That's fucking brilliant. | ||
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:33 Osmoses wrote: So when you say SC2 developers don't know what they're doing, exactly what are you proposing they do? Go dig up the old BW developer team and put them all in charge? That's fucking brilliant. Maybe shift the game to be loss volatile. Encourage more use of mechanical play. That's where the real fun and entertainment value is at IMO, whether competitively as a spectator or just laddering for fun. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:33 Osmoses wrote: So when you say SC2 developers don't know what they're doing, exactly what are you proposing they do? Go dig up the old BW developer team and put them all in charge? That's fucking brilliant. I never said that, I just said your "don't insult Sc2 developers because you can't do any better" line of thinking is stupid. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:35 stevarius wrote: Maybe shift the game to be loss volatile. Encourage more use of mechanical play. That's where the real fun and entertainment value is at IMO, whether competitively as a spectator or just laddering for fun. Key words here are "IMO". You feel you know better than them, and so do I sometimes, but neither of us have the experience or the expertise to know what makes a great game. It's a science, but the fans always seem so convinced they'd do a better job. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:36 TheSubtleArt wrote: I never said that, I just said your "don't insult Sc2 developers because you can't do any better" line of thinking is stupid. That's your solution then? Insult the developers? | ||
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KingVietKong
United States170 Posts
Is Dustin Browder out of touch? Based on the things he's said when comparing BW and SC2, and the controversial Sen discussion, that can be said almost conclusively. It's obvious he hasn't watched much if any competitive Brood War, and if he did he didn't pay much attention to it. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:38 Osmoses wrote: That's your solution then? Insult the developers? What? I wasn't insulting the developers, just saying your line of thinking is stupid. | ||
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On June 12 2011 21:38 Osmoses wrote: Key words here are "IMO". You feel you know better than them, and so do I sometimes, but neither of us have the experience or the expertise to know what makes a great game. It's a science, but the fans always seem so convinced they'd do a better job. I never claimed to have the ability to do what I believed the direction of the game should go, but they do. I don't like the way SC2 consists of a lot of 1a2a3a into your opponent with one massive army. There just seems to be too little emphasis on strategic play. This could be a result of the lack of time that there has been to develop better play, but it almost seems like the game rewards people too much for, arguably, not very much work. From a spectator point of view, BW just seems like a much more interesting game in terms of shear gameplay and excitement. Make larger maps and tune the game to compensate? That would be an interesting step to at least take and see what would result. Experimentation on PTRs wouldn't hurt to see what directions the game COULD take and see what the players want or don't want. | ||
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
1. the game is close to balance - you can't expect the game to give you a 50/50 in every situation. the only way to do this would be to remove two races from the game. the whole point is to control the game and prevent getting into a situation which would flip the scales against you... this was the same in broodwar. 2. maps - map design is the most determining factor with regards to balance at this point in time. this is how it should be. close positions make rushing powerful, in broodwar rushes almost only ever worked with proxy, and i can't remember any competitive 1v1 maps. blizzard have wised up to this, hence the release of more and more large scale 4 player maps. 3. units to redesign - immortal, mothership and overseer definitely feel awkward. units like thor and raven would be fine with improvements to their researched spells. i've found that immortal are especially awkward, their short range causes the stalker/immortal synergy to suck. they should have a longer range than stalker if anything. but over the last year blizzard has made tweaks such as this to keep people generally happy. 4. colossus, marauder and roach whining - are we back in april 2010 again? i wasn't a huge fan back then, but they're a core part of the game now... if you change them, you have no idea what will happen due to the metagame butterfly effect. also, colossus is already being phased out in the metagame since they get killed off by air units before dealing significant damage. frankly, i'm suprised people are whining about roach, when it's clearly the hydralisk that demands attention in the zerg camp. everyone knows that if you make a single hydralisk against terran, you instantly lose the match. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
This are compromises made to have the game appeal to a larger audience. It is the reason why E-sports is growing in the west. It is the "easy to learn" part in the "easy to learn, hard to master" description. Why blizzard appears not to listen to the community? Did you read all the balance shit on TL/ B-net forums? People do not want balance in the first place (not that they understand what that is anyway), they want to win games easier. Pro gamers often included in this to. In other games, developers listen to the community yes, by making another game with only very little differences, for an extra 60$. One game a year (to improve and show that we care about the community o.O). There is a lot to be done with SC2. In micro and general tactics in general. The game is evolving. To sum it up, this thread is a massive knee jerk, a "WTF" i want to be heard cry, a shit sense of entitlement. SC2 will be doomed the day Blizz makes patches based on polls/ general consensus and other general BS coming from the community. Trying to be objective in an environment where most people are either only interested in wining easier on the ladder or in tournaments to make more money is, extremely hard. Grow up! | ||
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