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NASL's TL LiveReports Threads Analytics
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
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Jtom
Ireland1044 Posts
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Count9
China10928 Posts
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darthcaesar
United States475 Posts
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Suc
Australia1569 Posts
Also, I thought this was gonna be something about liver transplants over the internet thanks to the sidebar. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
Good data collection though. Thanks for the help | ||
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MonsieurGrimm
Canada2441 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:29 Count9 wrote: Wonder how playoffs will look, I'm expecting end of week one numbers yeah, the round robin play is sort of boring to me so I'll only tune in if I'm bored or a good matchup is on, but once the playoffs start I'll probably start paying much more attention | ||
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
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nekuodah
England2409 Posts
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Helix
United States35 Posts
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Hawkke
United States41 Posts
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Blackrobe
United States806 Posts
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
I mean, for a typical football (soccer) fan, it's one match a week for the favourite team and that's about it. Following SC2 means 4 BO3 a day of GSL, and almost endless NASL/IPL/Other tourneys/Youtube games/Streams/Dailies/TL. I like the tourney, NASL, I like your ambition, but I just don't have the time. | ||
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flowSthead
1065 Posts
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
...as flowSthead has apparently already said. It usually has been pulling in ~10k viewers on justin.tv on a daily basis. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
Just way too much SC on to stay invested in it throughout the whole process. Sometimes less is more. I still like NASL and wish them the best. This is purely my personal opinion. | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
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TheAuditor
United States136 Posts
Does the data include the european airing, or are these not views, but thread views, which really isn't indicative of NASLs success, there is correlation but not necessarily. I often watch NASL on NASL.tv or Justin.tv and I also watch the vods every once in awhile of matches that I missed. | ||
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yoshi_yoshi
United States440 Posts
Week 8 was of course MLG. I guess it's impossible to collect after the fact, but what would really be nice is having peak/average stream viewers for both US/EU broadcasts. I actually don't think those stats would be as damning. From what I remember (except for week 8), the viewers in US timezone hovers around 15k pretty consistently, and wasn't that much more for week 1. It does make logical sense that there would be less total interest as the weeks go on. First, there have been a disturbing number of walkovers recently. Secondly, while the regular season does make certain games much more interesting in the latter weeks, it also makes a lot of other games pointless. Next week I'll probably only tune in to the games that matter. | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + thanks for this!  | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
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TheAuditor
United States136 Posts
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SenorChang
Australia4729 Posts
The over saturation of group play makes it far too hard to follow every single day, 2 months of just division play? GSL is receives complaints of being too long sometimes and it's over within a month - would be less but there is a week break between semi's and final's. Maybe they should look at doing a reformat of their league because at the moment I won't watch any group play next time around - it's just like tuning into a players stream, something I don't do to often, just to kill time. That being said I can't wait for the offline finals. | ||
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MCMXVI
Norway1193 Posts
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Dexington
Canada7276 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25977 Posts
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:30 Kennigit wrote: Wow, pretty powerful. Thats a very low attach rate and i'd have to imagine its due to the problems they suffered from in week 1. It would be interesting to see how other leagues like IPL or CSN events size up. Also the graphs may be a bit misleadings because people tend to post more when there are problems and dont say much if things are going ok. Day 1/2 was a constant stream of complains which probably affects those 2 peaks. so the MLG day 3 thread got 1400 pages or so right. imagine if everything had been fucked up....2k+?????? | ||
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Sermokala
United States13828 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:58 Chill wrote: They can bring it back with the playoffs. I'd be interest to see stream numbers more than replies. yeah I was going to say Stream numbers are a lotmore important the last LR thread was 10 pages of either the player making a mistake or commenting on my trolling and then 20 about PU As a maker of the LR threads they don't really matter to be the're more of a results thread then anything else I doubt anyone really cares about that really important thing that happened on page 443 in that mlg LR thread. NASL stream numbers have actualy gone up before crashing like the stream at 20k thats what I want to find out about. | ||
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
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elsrickle
Canada53 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
- So far, it's been a glorified qualifier tournament in a league format where everyone plays everyone, nobody is directly eliminated after the games, and nobody wins anything. The games are played week in, week out, and it's really difficult to build up and maintain any sort of hype and excitement. - TL coverage is bad. I don't go to NASL website, and I don't frequent WellPlayed.org. TL is the center of my Starcraft universe and ideally I don't want to have to go ANYWHERE else (I'm even very annoyed by the teamliquidpro.net as an actual fan of the team). Yet all we get here is a live report thread, it's even hard to find the updated group rankings, and there are no write-ups, interviews, anything. - It's clearly way too much of a commitment for the players with no short-term benefits at all, which leads to all the walkover wins and no-shows. Having seen some games I'm not getting the impression that NASL is high priority for the players at all and obviously it's almost entirely neglected by players who have no chance of qualifying directly from the groups, leading to a lot of one-sided games even if they do show up. It just feels like too much of a grind at this point. I don't think this was that well thought out at all, given the potential with the prize money and everything, or at the very least it isn't to my personal liking. But yeah, ultimately I think format is the biggest issue. Watching TSL3 qualifier tournaments was a lot more exciting to me. | ||
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ShaunO
United States44 Posts
BUT... i will say that recently soooo much content has come out for SC2 that I have not had time to see everything and NASL is something that is easily cut-out b/c its on every night and I just think "well i can skip it tnite, its always on". not to mention the damned season seems very long! Almost like its dragging on, I have been waiting for the finals of the NASL for a while now. Pool play loses its interest after a while, people want to see eliminations and drama. So i think that its a combined fact that people were upset at first which generated a lot of discussion and the fact that its always on. I suspect discussion will pick up again during the finals and around the beginnings of season 2. That being said, I love NASL and am in no way shape or form wishing that it fades away and disappears. It is a very critical thing and very important for esports in NA. cheers! | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:58 Chill wrote: They can bring it back with the playoffs. I'd be interest to see stream numbers more than replies. Yea, I think one thing we should remember is there might be people who don't participate in LR threads and simply watch the stream. The disproportional number of LR views and posts might be due to the endless complaining and technical difficulties in the first week. I'd also like to see a chart of stream views, if at all possible oO. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
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numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [LiveReport views by Division] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IUTMh.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jQG3N.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wJTS8.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ac7Vm.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ihfgz.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PNY1r.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/V3mMv.png) | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
It's 100% common sense to see that the viewers will lower over time, people started watching it a lot in week 1 just to make sure it wasn't a bust after incontrol hyped it. Now it's just day after day of group play, where the only reason to watch is to follow your favorite players (i watch days where ret/idra play for example) When the actual tourney starts, suspect as many viewers as MLG if their production is nice. | ||
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cablesc
United States1540 Posts
MorroW Moon Fenix Sheth KiWiKaKi July White-Ra Sjow DarkForce CrunCher TT1 iNcontroL Squirtle Strelok NaNiwa NaDa Axslav dde SeleCT Ret Ace MC HasuObs BoxeR Sen Zenio IdrA Socke MaNa Take the top 16 out of that lot, and it'll be a sick, sick lineup for the main bracket. The cream definitely rose to the top in this instance. That is one good thing about the league format. It allowed players like MC to make a comeback after a slow start. That wouldn't happen in an elimination format. | ||
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fer
Canada375 Posts
I'll keep an eye out for the playoffs since NASL is indeed a wider project than just the group stages, but if that doesn't "wow" people enough, I'm scared for season 2 and subsequent ones.</3 | ||
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Brad
2754 Posts
I really don't think Starcraft 2 is ready for a 'regular season' type format yet. I honestly believe people enjoy the high adrenaline feeling of do or die games. I think Starcraft 2 is more catered towards the UFC format; than the NBA format. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
Also, with paypal support from j.tv, there are probably a lot more people that don't check the LR threads later but instead just watch the VODs. In short: The numbers mean nothing without context. | ||
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ciaiei
Finland41 Posts
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
I also really like the BO3 group play thing, as it allows me to pick 1-2 players in each group and root for them and follow them throughout the whole season. I think for fans of a player, this format is much better, as a loss won't mean elimination and even if your player doesn't do well or isn't top tier (like Goody e.g.) the matches are still exciting as he battles to stay in the NASL. Now if the matches were restreamed Monday through Friday instead of Thursday through Monday, then I think there would be even more nerds that just tune in every weekday evening integrating the NASL in their routine. | ||
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Marradron
Netherlands1586 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
Week 8 they battled MLG which of course a consistent league in its preliminaries can't do. Exclude week 8 if you want to draw any statistical conclusion from these stats. Before week 8 things are very consistent. Week 1-2 are hugely hyped and was never where NASL was going to end up. To me those stats look perfectly fine and solid. They will spike huge with the playoffs. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/LiquidNazgul/NASL.jpg) | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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obsKura
Ireland1061 Posts
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DoubleB
Germany870 Posts
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vasculaR
Malaysia791 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:34 Mobius_1 wrote: Anyone feels a bit overwhelmed by sheer amount of Starcraft games? I watched some NASL when it was new, mixed in some IPL, but now I pretty much only watch the GSL and special events like MLG. I mean, for a typical football (soccer) fan, it's one match a week for the favourite team and that's about it. Following SC2 means 4 BO3 a day of GSL, and almost endless NASL/IPL/Other tourneys/Youtube games/Streams/Dailies/TL. I like the tourney, NASL, I like your ambition, but I just don't have the time. Me too. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10665 Posts
Now there is less and less Drama, add into it that Europeans actually can watch it at "primetime" even for the "working" pouplation and live reports suddenly aren't as important anymore. I would begin to worry for the NASL when "DRAMA" in game X/Y/Z won't spawn new treads anymore or discussion anymore (see Painuser)... Edit: And naturally MLG/Dreamhack and other big events will "kill" the interest on these days. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
And it still gets more viewers than pretty much every mid/small sized tourny stream. I think TSL was really the only league that regularly had higher numbers, which obviously has its reasons. But I wouldnt call it anywhere near a fail until GO4SC2 or some random day of EGs team league gets more viewers. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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rycho
United States360 Posts
- this isn't their fault, but i sort of feel the play is tainted by cross-region online play. i remember idra saying something like "do not place weight on any game a korean plays on the na server" - it seems to take FOREVER to get through 5 matches. personally i don't care about the interviews and pregame and all the other crap besides the actual games - i don't have access to vods. i know i can buy them for $20, so maybe this is my fault, but i have a hard time following the league and being a fan of the players and their storylines when i can't see all their games. so of all the tournaments running, nasl is the one i pay the least attention to. that said however, i will absolutely tune in to the playoffs/finals and i'm really looking forward to the live finals in california; i think it'll be a great event. i just wish the regular season was as interesting. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
That is SC2 to me right now, after the MLG weekend (which was fantastic kudos to them after Dallas) i dont feel like watching any SC2 for a while. Live events such as MLG, Dreamhack and GSL have that "you have to be there" feel to them, ie something insane is going to happen and you will miss it so you tune in. NASL just in general does not have that must see effect for me | ||
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maJes
United Kingdom186 Posts
Personally I don't see a need to post in a LR thread during the rerun, as it's already been and gone. I don't know how this sort of thing would extrapolate to your figures in general but maybe it's something to consider. | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
I disagree with the conclusions some have reached. If you discount Week 1, only Division 1 shows any steady decline in interest, even then there's a rise again in Week 8. The graphs in the spoiler shows that rather than the narrative that "people are slowly losing interest in NASL", activity in the LiveReport threads fluctuate on the merit of the games. This still presents an issue, obviously the number of what the viewers consider "quality games" is fluctuating a lot day to day. I think this is probably a result of having too many players in the league which may lead to more games but not necessarily more interesting ones. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:39 Lysenko wrote: Since HQ subscribers have access to NASL VODs, you'd really have to have those viewer numbers to know whether people have stopped watching or just shifted their attention to the VODs. The average NASL premium vod has around 600 views. Matches with 2 big names go up to 1.200ish, crazy hype matches up to 1.500ish. 2 absolute nobodies playing eachother draws in around 200-300 views. Over the last few weeks I'm under the impression VOD views have been going down, rather then up, but I could be wrong there. According to the JTV no. of views at least. I have often wondered myself how many premium subscribers the NASL has, personally I'd be surprised if it was over 5k total. (Also, they initially upload the full 3-4 hour vod in multiple parts before splitting them, which means that views on the full vod aren't counted. I'd imagine that number to be very low in the first place tho, due to the difficulty of use of those vod's in the first place.) | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
But I still keep myself updated on the results of the Paris Tennis, the NHL playoffs and the major European football leagues. Just as I usually check NASL results and check group standings from time to time to keep myself updated. And I'll watch the European re-broadcast if some games seems to be recommended, im bored, or sometimes just have the audio on in the background while doing other stuff, tabbing into the games when things heat up. And as long as NASL can keep people interested enough to casually watch the broadcasts now and then and keep the interest in what the results are, they should really be happy. No one should really have expected anyone to be so hardcore they watch every single game. I doubt NASL did that either (and if they did they'd be pretty stupid). | ||
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Blasphemi
United Kingdom980 Posts
I also feel like the players don't really give it their all in these games either, I guess many don't want to reveal their best strategies in such meaningless matches. I have premium and I'll watch the July/MC vods if I didn't catch the restream (or stream if i'm working nights) but I don't bother for most of the rest. I'm sure the LAN will be great though. | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
- TL coverage is bad. I don't go to NASL website, and I don't frequent WellPlayed.org. TL is the center of my Starcraft universe and ideally I don't want to have to go ANYWHERE else (I'm even very annoyed by the teamliquidpro.net as an actual fan of the team). Yet all we get here is a live report thread, it's even hard to find the updated group rankings, and there are no write-ups, interviews, anything. I don't think it was the smartest idea for NASL to have wellplayed.org as their "official" community. Just by looking at the "hot topics" of wellplayed.org as of right now the top thread has 10 replies. If NASL had instead made TL their official partner or even just post their own articles on this website their might be more lasting interest in the league. It certainly doesn't help NASL that over the last couple of weeks there has been a sharp increase in walkovers. Most days now are even averaging two walkovers and it usually occurs between big names like white-ra and boxer and select. If the players don't care for the league why should the fans? Hopefully NASL takes these issues and rectifies this situation for next season as I can't see it simply changing on its own with the current format. It must be said though that NASL has averaged about 12K-14K viewers each which is impressive given all the problems the league has faced. I certainly don't think these statistics reflect the overall popularity of the league. NASL has done well but overall if their planning was better some of these problems would never have happened in the first place. | ||
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MagickMan
Australia498 Posts
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Brad
2754 Posts
I understand that it's 2011, and online play is the future of gaming, but it's just not the same in my opinion. It doesn't help that Battle.net isn't as good as it should be, but that's a whole nother argument altogether. | ||
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CursedFeanor
Canada539 Posts
One thing is sure though... the finals HAVE to be excellent if NASL wants to do even remotely well in season 2. Personally, there's no way I'm buying a pass again if we don't get to see a real tournament ending. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
I cannot seem to find the NASL feedback thread in the general forum with the search function (neither NASL nor feedback yield the desired result). Has it been deleted for some reason? | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
But seriously, it is interesting to see. I mean if there is a strong correlation between the LR threads and viewers/activity then MLG must have had a great weekend. I don't think it is a perfect measure by any means, but I'd think it is safe to assume that you can at least gather a trend from it. I don't think it has anything to do with the "issues" NASL has had, I just think it is a long season and people got a bit burned out on it. I'm expecting to see really strong numbers when they get into the final tournament portion. That should be very entertaining and I think reinvigorate people. Next week should be a good week too especially if they do a good job of making all the "playoff" scenarios very clear so that we know who really needs a win, and who needs a win and another player to lose etc. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:17 mordek wrote: I'm with Kennigit, the LR for the first week was just full of complaints. People post more when they're unhappy. People post more when they are happy as well. It could be that when people are indifferent or apathetic that they don't bother. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:30 Kennigit wrote: Wow, pretty powerful. Thats a very low attach rate and i'd have to imagine its due to the problems they suffered from in week 1. It would be interesting to see how other leagues like IPL or CSN events size up. Also the graphs may be a bit misleadings because people tend to post more when there are problems and dont say much if things are going ok. Day 1/2 was a constant stream of complains which probably affects those 2 peaks. I think there are other detrimental factors in play as well, but this isn't based on the LR threads activity alone. I rather look at the full picture. Here are some off the top of my head: - The length of the league is fairly long and some of the players aren't really a big draw. - Overlap between MLG/TSL/CSN - Lots of walkovers. A lot of them are matches the spectators really wanted to see. Not much they can do about it when players have flights and shit, but these are the players they really wanted to see that night. - The casts are excoriating long. I remember tuning in the first day and they had a 30 minute preview alone. It's a full night of Starcraft. It's important to get right to the fucking point or else you are going to lose your viewership unless it's live and on location. | ||
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:30 Kennigit wrote: Wow, pretty powerful. Thats a very low attach rate and i'd have to imagine its due to the problems they suffered from in week 1. It would be interesting to see how other leagues like IPL or CSN events size up. Also the graphs may be a bit misleadings because people tend to post more when there are problems and dont say much if things are going ok. Day 1/2 was a constant stream of complains which probably affects those 2 peaks. This cannot be overstated. I've actually spent more time in the LR threads the times when there's been problems than when everything has been running smoothly. In those cases, I've pretty much just, you know, watched the games. I think a much more useful statistic would be NASL's own viewer figures. | ||
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VillageBC
322 Posts
I love the season format of NASL, but I wish it was even longer... Yes longer, because I want to see Idra vs Zenio more then once to build that proper tension within the division. And i would like there to be cross divisional play. But they would need to have more then 1 game a week for that and that just isn't going to happen. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On June 07 2011 22:58 Blasphemi wrote: The biggest problem is that most of the games just don't matter. So I'll only ever watch my favourite players, with a lot more on the line I'd be more inclined to watch say a Drewbie vs Socke game but right now it just isn't interesting enough. I also feel like the players don't really give it their all in these games either, I guess many don't want to reveal their best strategies in such meaningless matches. I have premium and I'll watch the July/MC vods if I didn't catch the restream (or stream if i'm working nights) but I don't bother for most of the rest. I'm sure the LAN will be great though. I kind of feel the same. When I watch the league, I have no idea what they are playing for. Are these 2 guys playing for 1st place (are they first and second in their group). But yeh IMO, the league is way too long, and it feels like they are just playing some random games. At MLG you felt like every game was really important, and it was very exciting. Nasl is the exact opposite. I think that NASL has been inspired by sports leagues (like NFL), and hence decided that a league would have a lot of interest. But IMO they have kind of missed the context here (as sc2 is in a compltely different situation than american football), and they have not analyzed their product (which is NASL) from the consumer point of view (why should I watch games that dont really matter?). | ||
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
That said, I think it's clear that NASL hasn't succeeded as much as they hoped. They depend a lot on prestige, and that prestige depends on how players treat them. At the begining, with a huge prize pool and a studio, full-time staff, etc., it looked like NASL might be able to establish itself as the biggest thing in western starcraft. It wouldn't be GSL, but winning it would be the biggest thing outside of that that you could put on your resume. It could have surpassed MLG, Dreamhack, TSL, etc. Instead, it has become just one of the many tournaments out there. I think that's bad for starcraft, because I think the western scene really does need a premier tournament, preferably one that is drawn out over weeks, not just one weekend. But they didn't act very professional at first (and still have failings), and players and viewers didn't see it as having that kind of prestige. That means players are in it for the money, not making potential fans. It means they don't schedule their flights around NASL matches and so forth. And then people see it not being the top priority for its players and that reduces the prestige further, etc. If the finals are great and the open tournament/qualifier has tons of top players in them, they could easily use it to establish more prestige going into the next season. But as it is they're definitely in trouble. | ||
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
From what I've seen: - NASL week 1 was probably about 15-20k - Weeks 2-3 fell hard to about 6-9k depending on IPL - From roughly 4 onward the viewers have consistently stabalized at 11-15k, with Sunday being the night it grabs usually 15-18k depending on when Idra/Boxer are playing. - MLG screwed week 8 numbers | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
But I like the NASL, I like the games and I like the format. But there are simply too many games to watch. I have spent roughly 140$ on subscriptions/donations related to SCII already in the past 5 months, another 25$ for the next season of the NASL wouldn't hurt me but I don't think I will buy it. I do not believe that the -life report threads- or as some admins state the -life viewers- are important in the success of the NASL. I don't know anything, but it seems that after the first hype of the NASL activity dropped. The games are great, but the need to work on suspense if they want to keep the audience motivated. That is how I feel. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
I would suggest they seperate the different zones and have the league play out abit faster with smaller price pool. I watch alot of Sc2, but NASL have just fallen off my radar lately, pretty much not watched any of the matches in weeks. It would be cool when you get the best of the different zones and then they play eachother in offline event after maby 2 months. | ||
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schmeebs
United States115 Posts
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
It might be nice for spectators if the group stage were shorter, but unless there are a lot of player complaints I don't think it's time to change. | ||
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Authweight
United States304 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
As I live reporter I gave up with the Nasl reports a while back as people just wasn't interested in them as they are with GSL etc | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
considering the people behind the nasl are some of the same people calling for cooperation between leagues i was suprised that they even aired week 8 on an mlg weekend. It really makes no sense to me that at least 2 day of those days weren't just aired yesterday and tonight instead since relatively little is going on now. | ||
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Syben
United States512 Posts
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Jampackedeon
United States2053 Posts
In summation, awareness and interest likely remains high (despite the drop off from week 1) as the quality of NASL has gradually gone up. I imagine this last week, without MLG to get in the way, will get tons of attention and the playoffs will be equivalent to the TSL or possibly even MLG. Don't forget, TSL viewership also greatly resembled this this trend with really high initial viewers followed by a big fall off in the middling weeks. | ||
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VirtuallyJesse
United States398 Posts
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Maliris
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
pretty dumb to air at the same time as mlg though, especially when NASL are supposed to be advocating co-operation between other LANs since its of benefit for everyone... | ||
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thee telescopes
321 Posts
Saying that though NASL still seems to be getting 25k viewers a day between the two streams which is really impressive. | ||
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robih
Austria1086 Posts
after playday1 i was basically just checking results now and then and waiting for playoffs | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
For example, the Week 8 Day 5 thread was about 14 pages after the broadcast itself. Now it's getting close to 40 mainly due to comments regarding Painuser's and the NASL organiser's communication failures (to put it as neutrally and non inflammatory as possible). | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
- too long process - too many games that doesn't mean anything - the production quality is not that high overall much less interesting than GSL. i have limited time and choose to watch the best league GSL and then the special tourneys MLG Dreamhack etc | ||
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Karthane
United States1183 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
But I don't think this is a good indicator of viewership. | ||
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NeonPeon
93 Posts
If we don't see a significant rise as we get into the business end of the tournament, I'd be concerned, but I just don't see that happening. I think there will be many more viewers, just like with a bracket tournament the qualifiers are less watched, and each round is more watched than the previous. It's pointless to compare a league with a three day tournament. The NASL has had several issues that it needs to address, and these are all well documented, but I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest that the format of the tournament is somehow fundamentally flawed. I think despite all the issues with the NASL, it's got the skeleton of a great tournament, and I've enjoyed it immensely. | ||
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
Taking into account how frequently it airs and how many games there are to get through I don't think anyone ever expected to see numbers close to short term weekend tournaments like MLG and TSL. Even during the group stages there is a consistently high audience, and I'm sure we will see that number shoot up once they get into the playoffs. How many foreign viewers does GSL normally get? I can't see it being that much higher, at least not until near the finals. What worries me more about the NASL is the seeming lack of any kind of sponsors. I still don't really understand how the whole thing is financed. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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Adsee
United States221 Posts
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TheAlchemist89
160 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:40 Adsee wrote: like quite a few in this thread, i started out watching NASL whenever I possibly could, almost every night, however, it feels too much like a time investment. Plus, the fact that the group stages take like two months is really hurting my interest. In theory a three month sc2 tournament with every match casted sounds wonderful, but it really is almost impossible to tune in to most of the matches and is really easy to lose interest in, for me at least I actually watch NASL over all of the others because it is such a long league. You do have a great point that it's a major time investment... I think perhaps if NASL had a better and more accessible VOD setup things might be quite different. You could then watch the matches you want live, and catch up on others at a later point. The way it is right now on JTV... makes it hard to access the VODs you want and often I find myself combing manually through a list. It'd be nice to see a GSL-esque setup? Where you could click through a grand-scheme schedule to particular matchups, and then watch each individual match. Also VODs need to be made available in lower resolutions as they can kill someone's bandwidth really quickly at 1080p. | ||
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Erucious
Norway393 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
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Clicker
United States1012 Posts
Kennigit really nailed it when he mentioned the first couple of days were filled with complaint posts, which make the graphs look worse than it actually is. | ||
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The_Piper42
United States426 Posts
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Fionn
United States23455 Posts
Online tournaments just don't get as much hype/viewers on here or in the community except if you're TSL. Especially when it's a regular season type deal where some players have quit, some matches don't matter toward the final result, etc. Long regular-type seasons only really work when it's offline or if it's a team league. Also when you have leagues like GSL going on and other stuff like MLG/Dreamhack, it'll just look not as good in comparison since they're offline and have a better overall production. | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
NASL has definitely improved since week one despite what statistics show, but i really think a change in format would be the best thing possible to make it successful. | ||
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NeonPeon
93 Posts
Next season the quality of play in the NASL will be better because of the open tournament, new invites and the retention of all the best players. Essentially the the wheat will have been separated from the chaff in the tournament we are watching right now. With an even higher number of quality players, there will be less skill disparity within each division, and each game will be more meaningful. I have a feeling there will be a lot more momentum felt for the NASL we get into the later stages of this tournament, and people start vying to be in for next year. That said, regardless of a format choice, some people will only watch the later rounds of a tournament, and that's not a problem. I'm happy I've been watching all the games as I have a much better sense of each players playstyles as we go into the business end of the tournament and it makes it a lot more enjoyable. | ||
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Pudge_172
United States1378 Posts
Round one you have 10 groups of 5 players doing round robin in their group. Takes 4 weeks. 1st and 2nd of each group advances to round 3. Round two you have 6 groups of 5 players doing round robin in their group. Takes 4 weeks. 1st/2nd of each group advances to round 3. Round 3 is a 32 person Bracket. Ro32 takes place online. Ro16/Ro8/Ro4/Ro2 is offline. If you don't make the 32 person Bracket, you aren't guaranteed to be in next season. That leaves 18 spots for new people. It does get rid of the $10 open tournament for a spot in the offline finals. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
We got over 5k viewers almost each night while MLG was running, we had about 20k on Thursday (when I casted... wooo!). Not too bad imo. Anyways, I believe people just have trouble realizing/accepting that our format is NOT a "tournament" format. It is a league. We are the only real big league. GSL is a monthly/bimonthly tournament. MLG is a series of tournaments. NASL is an actual league. Die-hard fans watch the NBA every single day. A vast majority of people only watch major matches, or follow their favorite team. It's the exact same here. Go figure ~~ | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
In fact, I would say by appearances they are doing quite well. However, this brings up 2 caveats to the success. First, Playoff viewership should be much much higher than regular season. If playoff viewership isn't higher, then I think NASL is in some trouble. Secondly, the Open Tournament, should have lots of entrants. Like considerably larger than MLG's open bracket. If they don't I think NASL might be in trouble. I would also like to state that this brings up a question of the allocation of resources for the NASL. Every match in the NASL regular is important. It is really important as seen by the situation of the NASL coming into Week9. Think how different the divisions would be if White-ra, MC, Naniwa didn't have walkover losses. Think how different Division 5 would be if Painuser took a round off opponents instead of not showing up and going 0-2. DESPITE, all this tho, from a spectator point of view, the regular season isn't all that exciting. There's too many to watch, and many just tune in for the week to see the one BIG matchup. NASL can try to emphasize the important of each game, but I don't think they can because professional sports league haven't found a solution either. NBA, MLB, NFL, etc have much higher viewership during playoffs than the regular season. This is also true of college level play. With this in mind, it seems to me that NASL is using way too many resources devoted into broadcasting the regular season. During the playoffs, we want live games, live casters, a play by play, a thorough analysis, interviews, and all the good stuff. But during the regular season, that's not as important. I think fans are more concerned with the results more than the games during the regular season, unless there's a big name like Boxer, Idra, or MC. I think since there is less viewer emphasis during the regular season, it wouldn't hurt NASL at all to cast from non-live replays for the regular season in the future ala TSL #3. It's more convenient for the players and scheduling, the NASL staff, and gives more time for editing and production value. Of course, this raises the risk of results being leaked. Now NASL can strive to live cast every regular season game like they have been doing, but getting that production value up is going to be harder, scheduling and accommodating the players is going to be harder. And one has to wonder, is it worth it? All that being said, if future seasons of NASL has GSL level production value and editing and amazing casting for all their regular season games, including the more "boring" players, it would be extremely impressive and really raise the standard for NA esport tournaments. Also, despite being hard for the viewers, I really like the season long format. I think whoever is crowned the champion of the NASL, we can safely say is the best champion for the set of players who joined. The format definitely weeds out luck, and its hard to make an argument that the winner of this tournament doesn't deserve to be where he is. You don't luck into the NASL championship, is what I'm saying. As better foreigners join the NASL, the NASL champion can be called the best foreigner. If all the Koreans join the NASL, the NASL title can definitely be just as prestigious as the GSL tournament. (Here's hoping blizzard gives us P2P one of these days) | ||
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Carson
Canada820 Posts
I'd have to agree wth the fact that people post complaints more than praise, and the stream still gets big views | ||
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OCsurfeR
United States195 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:30 Kennigit wrote: Wow, pretty powerful. Thats a very low attach rate and i'd have to imagine its due to the problems they suffered from in week 1. It would be interesting to see how other leagues like IPL or CSN events size up. Also the graphs may be a bit misleadings because people tend to post more when there are problems and dont say much if things are going ok. Day 1/2 was a constant stream of complains which probably affects those 2 peaks. Without sounding defensive, I'd like a little more granularity of your statement of "That's a very low attach rate." because I disagree. 2.5k posts per week is hardly a small number, and considering that TL.net is only one of a few different centers people post NASL findings, opinions, etc on today, I'd say it's right in line with what I would have expected. Primadog is a friggin genius with statistics and one of the Moderators on our stream that I enjoy working with very much, so I absolutely dig it when he makes these types of posts. It'd be great to see the statistics melding in Reddit.com and WP.org posts as well. | ||
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