EPTWhat WoL units/mechanics are uninteresting? - Page 26
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
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Sisaroth
Belgium591 Posts
-corruptor (vikings can land, phoenix can graviton beam but corruptors are useless against ground) -warp prism (they halt colossus production and they can't be army unit like the medivac) -mothership | ||
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Wihl
Sweden472 Posts
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Eletharion
Germany2 Posts
On June 01 2011 23:32 OrgCom wrote: Note: The following are a set of ideas that I think can improve the excitement of the game, mainly through two main ideas: 1. Big impact units that open up comeback possibilities. 2. Increase micro These ideas would definitely require further balancing. It is only the general ideas that I am proposing. What are your top 3 uninteresting units in the game? Colossus - Death ball to victory. Corruptors - Two uses: Counter colossus. Building Broodlords. Otherwise useless. Zealots, Immortals, Archons - really minimal control involved. A-move and watch your army. All your Zealots died? No problem, they were free anyways. - What mechanics do you find needing tweaks? or badly designed. HT Storms - Make it hard to use. Have large energy requirements that force you to build them much earlier to use. Make it so each HT can only storm once even at full energy. For example, Storm should cost 150 energy. Max energy should be 200. Starting energy should be 50. As compensation for the added difficulty in using this spell, the damage should be increased to have a greater impact. ie. If you land a good storm, it should be devastating. Also, ghosts should have similar treatment to make EMPs harder to use so it won't be able to counter this as easily. Big Impact Player For Terran - HTs change the game in one storm. Infestors can wipe out huge bio armies with 2-3 fungals and can change the game instantly. Baneling mines can do the same. Terrans should also have a game changing unit/skill that works vs all races. Right now, Terrans only depend on positioning and winning that decisive battle. Sure the Terran needs skill in positioning to wipe out the opposing army, but it is also the opponent that loses the army in the engagement through no special spell casting of the Terran. How many times has a Terran beat a Zerg player by rolling tanks out and leap frogging them when they reach the edge of the creep line? This is not the most exciting thing to see. But when all those marines fall to a single baneling trap, that is what brings the excitement to the game. It is true that Terran has nukes, but this is far from practical. The solution? Possibly make the seeker missile High Impact. The seeker missile is FAR from useful. Even off racing players who choose this tech path and expect a big bang end up disappointed due to... well, due to the missile doing absolutely no noticeable damage. Seeker missile is already slow, it can be dodged by most units, and the AOE is quite small as well. Seeker missile needs to be a game changer. It should force enemy units to micro. - What graphic/misc tweaks do you want to see? N/A - What type of new units/buildings would you like to see? Flamethrower static defense for Terran - Ground only static defense that is hidden until the enemy is in range? Maybe even a command like the ghost where the structure does not auto-attack until commanded to? Adds that little element of surprise to the table that also builds suspense for viewers of a cast, etc. Lurkers - Zone of control unit. Counterpart to the tank if you may. Creates those back and forth matches. This reduces the opportunities of scenarios where a player would just A-move their way in and win. If you do that, the opponent has a way to punish it. this is like the perfect example why this topic sucks... most people really just comment on their version of balance and not really on how interesting units/abilities are :/ | ||
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Scrubington
Canada475 Posts
Thor, and mothership are my other two. Like previously stated, they feel too much like "hero" units, it just adds a bad feel to starcraft. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On June 01 2011 20:59 intrigue wrote: the marauder, colossus and hellion are the most boring units ever. forcefields, fungal growth and marauder slow are all spells with no counter micro, which is boring and terrible for competitive play. Couldn't say better myself. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
I'm not saying everything is fine, I personally hate marauders, colossi, sentries, roaches, and ultras. But many of you are throwing random BW related mechanics out as being the only interesting things you can do, when there are quite a few really high level things possible that might well turn games around in the future, it's just that the game hasn't developed to the point where that advantage is worth the risk of screwing up something else with your macro. I'll throw in gosu immortal/WP use vs roaches as a really high level, high reward tactic that just isn't being used now because, quite frankly, noone is good enough to do it without screwing up their macro and other units while doing it. You people just throw BW mechanics out there because you're already good at, and understand how to use it properly, and don't want to try to learn or develop anything new because it's not a fun as crushing some poor n00b who doesn't know how to do "X" mechanic that you've been practicing for 12 years. Could there be better mechanics in SC2? Yes. Do they need to be BW mechanics? Fark no. This is a new game, we shouldn't have to go back to 1999 to have interesting gameplay mechanics. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
That is so hilariously wrong I don't really know how to laugh at it. fungal and slow add sooo much depth | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:00 Eknoid4 wrote: That is so hilariously wrong I don't really know how to laugh at it. fungal and slow add sooo much depth But you can't avoid them. You can't avoid fungal if it is casted, you can't avoid FFs is they are casted and you can't avoid concussive, so no micro from opponent. Blizzard had really good idea about giving fungal a missile effect - that way both sides needs to micro their units. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:04 Alpina wrote: But you can't avoid them. You can't avoid fungal if it is casted, you can't avoid FFs is they are casted and you can't avoid concussive, so no micro from opponent. Blizzard had really good idea about giving fungal a missile effect - that way both sides needs to micro their units. You can spread your units out beforehand, especially with vikings, to help mitigate the damage from fungals. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:07 KimJongChill wrote: You can spread your units out beforehand, especially with vikings, to help mitigate the damage from fungals. Yeah but if fungal were missile then it would require more micro for both sides, and micro is always good for SC2. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:08 Alpina wrote: Yeah but if fungal were missile then it would require more micro for both sides, and micro is always good for SC2. Infestors are barely viable as they are right now. If you make fungal a dodgeable missle, that would just make them not viable any more. The missle wouldn't make the fungal more effective in any way, so it just nerfs it. | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:27 Sm3agol wrote: Infestors are barely viable as they are right now. If you make fungal a dodgeable missle, that would just make them not viable any more. The missle wouldn't make the fungal more effective in any way, so it just nerfs it. Then just buff zerg in another way to compensate. Don't say no to interesting mechanics for the sake of balance. Balanced but boring should not be what we want for SC2. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:04 Alpina wrote: But you can't avoid them. You can't avoid fungal if it is casted, you can't avoid FFs is they are casted and you can't avoid concussive, so no micro from opponent. Blizzard had really good idea about giving fungal a missile effect - that way both sides needs to micro their units. You can avoid them with good positioning and superior preparedness. This is like saying immortals are overpowered because if you attack them with roaches you die Try thinking more than 5 seconds in front of your face. Spells that make positioning more important are what add interesting choices to the game, not spells that are easy to dodge with a right click. If you didnt see those fungals/FFs coming at all, you got outplayed. End of story. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:27 Sm3agol wrote: Infestors are barely viable as they are right now. If you make fungal a dodgeable missle, that would just make them not viable any more. The missle wouldn't make the fungal more effective in any way, so it just nerfs it. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On June 01 2011 15:03 dreamsmasher wrote: turn the warp prism into a mobile shield battery + warp in. give it a t3 upgrade to make it into a warp in arbiter! I really like the warp-prism-as-shield-battery idea. That would be cool and none-too-overpowering because they're made of paper anyway. | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:30 Eknoid4 wrote: You can avoid them with good positioning and superior preparedness. This is like saying immortals are overpowered because if you attack them with roaches you die Try thinking more than 5 seconds in front of your face. There are two ways to avoid spells: pre-battle positioning and in-battle micro. The issue with SC2 is that it's completely removing the second option due to its anti-micro spells, which leads to 1a syndrome when a fight actually begins. Less options isn't going to make this game a lasting e-sport. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On June 02 2011 01:30 bonifaceviii wrote: I really like the warp-prism-as-shield-battery idea. That would be cool and none-too-overpowering because they're made of paper anyway. so overpowered. while we're at it lets give overseers instant free nydus canals | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Colossus - they are able to stack up too tightly (see below) and should rather be rare and difficult / slow to maneuver like the Thor. War of the Worlds please instead of the current smooth super fast movement. Battlecruiser / Carrier - they die too fast since they are late game units and are added last to an army and putting them against any decent number of units which attack air renders them useless too easily. (The Broodlord does not have the same problem since it creates a wall of free Brrodlings which prevent the movement of ground units.) Corruptors seem to be a bit on the useless side, but so are Vikings once you have air superiority. In short all those "air only" air units seem to be not worth having if your opponent doesnt have air to attack. The Viking transformation is a neat gimmick, but nothing else ... if it had its air attack rockets still available in ground mode things might be different, but that unit would be called differently. Only the Phoenix seems somewhat useful due to the ability to lift units off the ground and totally neutralize them for that time. - What mechanics do you find needing tweaks? or badly designed. The perfect movement AI really screws up the game by making tight death balls too deadly. There is no point in trying to build Carriers, a Mothership or BCs usually because they are shot down too easily by a tight ball of anti air units. There isnt even a need to kill a Carrier, because you can render it useless by shooting the tiny Interceptors with your tight ball of stimmed Marines or machinegun Hydras. This is a major issue and it makes SC2 wayyy too volatile to be truly skill and thought based. Tight and perfect movement AI really make a "Planetary Fortress" totally defenseless against a line of Banelings which are rolling in (or maybe just send in a decoy Zergling first). Its a stupid right-click which takes zero skill ... The tight unit movement make slow attacks like those from Siege Tanks and Planetary Fortresses super vulnerable and exploitable ... and in other words: weak (because they had to be nerfed). The super fast regeneration of Protoss shields is a bad concept IMO and should be changed to the BW version of mediocre regeneration + Shield Battery which is much more stylish. Feedback ... too many targets have no useful ways of getting rid of their energies (BC, Thor, Corruptor, Overseer) and take too much damage from that spell. My suggestion would be to reduce the damage taken by a proportional amount to the number of armor of the unit, i.e. a Thor with 0 armor upgrade only takes half its energy in damage (because it already has 1 armor anyways) and if it has 3 armor upgrades it only takes 20% damage ( 1 / (1 + 1 basic armor + 3 armor upgrades) = 1/5 = 20% ). The main use of the spell should be to get rid of the energy of the BC / Ghost / Thor so they cant use their powers and not to deal damage. - What graphic/misc tweaks do you want to see? Misc tweak of Blizzard creating maps which allow the Zerg to cover their ramp with Spine Crawlers without needing a creep tumor. Misc tweak of Blizzard getting rid of their tiny and close spawn maps on the ladder. Misc tweak of adding more maps from the community to the ladder. - What type of new units/buildings would you like to see? Personally I would love to see tweaks to existing buildings by being able to research more levels of building armor for Terrans to be able to exceed the attack upgrades of the opponents and really turtle. Zerg might want to have some kind of wall building (at least some whine about not being able to wall off) or maybe a goo pit which slows non-Zerg down and could be used to cover the top/bottom of a ramp. Shield Batteries for Protoss are much cooler than the super regenerating shields they have now. | ||
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