EPTYou can dodge storm, can't dodge emp's or fungals.
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Yew
United States940 Posts
You can dodge storm, can't dodge emp's or fungals. | ||
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MonsieurGrimm
Canada2441 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:41 quiet noise wrote: well the thing is, no meta-game shift is ever going to change the fact that the infestor pretty much counters everything (fungual owns armored/stacked infantery, neural parasite is the ultimate counter to massive units and infested terran is one of the best harrasment tools). thats a matter of balance/game mechanics, not meta game. Imagine if Colossus was able to attack air. that would be straight up overpowered, and no "meta game shift" would change the fact that this one unit counters everything. just like ghosts counter everything protoss has and high templar counter most of what zerg has. spellcasters are really good, having a way to deal with them is important as hell. | ||
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
b) Idra loses to Protoss players. c) Therefore Protoss is overpowered. d) Protoss players lose massively to other Zergs while being overpowered against Zerg (c) e) Since Protoss is overpowered vs Zerg and Protoss players lose vs Zerg therefore Protoss players are retarded. This all makes perfect sense now. | ||
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Slagg
Norway106 Posts
Stop having great shows so I can actually sleep during the night!  | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:43 Philip2110 wrote: I wish IdrA would actually think about how much of a hypocrite he sounds like. Its like he has the memory of a goldfish and is just lashing out at the units or race he decides is currently annoying him. Eh... Protoss are doing terrible in Korea and incontrol tried to use that as an argument that Infesters are overpowered. When in fact, it's mostly Terrans who are slaughtering every korean protoss. Only NesTea and Losira have really scary ZvPs right now, and they DON'T use infesters usually. | ||
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walklightwhat
Australia752 Posts
Thanks guys. | ||
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quiet noise
599 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:44 MonsieurGrimm wrote: just like ghosts counter everything protoss has and high templar counter most of what zerg has. spellcasters are really good, having a way to deal with them is important as hell. Both EMP and fungual are better spells than storm because you can easily dodge storm while EMP/FG are instant cast spells. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
I hope people won't muck up this thread with their balance "discussion" though. | ||
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MonsieurGrimm
Canada2441 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:46 quiet noise wrote: Both EMP and fungual are better spells than storm because you can easily dodge storm while EMP/FG are instant cast spells. that's partly offset by high templars not being useless after their energy is gone, but yeah they're probably the weakest link of the three (which is fine, not all aspects of each race needs to be equal - the important part is that the sum of the parts of all three races are balanced at the end) | ||
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quiet noise
599 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:46 Bagi wrote: Great show. I hope people won't muck up this thread with their balance "discussion" though. indeed, god forbid some people actually think for themselves and vent their opinions on public forums. | ||
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Philip2110
Scotland798 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:45 Cyrak wrote: a) Idra is the best player in the world. b) Idra loses to Protoss players. c) Therefore Protoss is overpowered. d) Protoss players lose massively to other Zergs while being overpowered against Zerg (c) e) Since Protoss is overpowered vs Zerg and Protoss players lose vs Zerg therefore Protoss players are retarded. This all makes perfect sense now. QFT perfect sense thanks for explaining | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:39 Kh0nsu wrote: I'm always looking for ways to defend hellions and if Blizzard didn't change them I wouldn't be too bothered. However, the thin edge between holding off hellions and letting 3 slip into your base is far to severe. It can win you a game in 20 seconds and I would like it to change from a game-play perspective rather than a balance perspective. you sound exactly like zergs in BW did when terrans started using vultures in the matchup. You can/will figure out ways to limit the amount of damage hellions do. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:45 SafeAsCheese wrote: Eh... Protoss are doing terrible in Korea and incontrol tried to use that as an argument that Infesters are overpowered. When in fact, it's mostly Terrans who are slaughtering every korean protoss. Only NesTea and Losira have really scary ZvPs right now, and they DON'T use infesters usually. Only them? You clearly don't watch much GSL. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:35 EchoZ wrote: "Protoss are playing wrong" - IdrA Then how to play it right? You sit in your base the whole game until 200/200 3+3 You then engage correctly the whole time being super effecient with splash. I think that's it. Damn. Could have had a much longer and richer discussion about all P match ups today. Bravo Inc. Holding down the fort. Edit: lol I can't believe people are comparing hellions to vulture in bw in damage output. One requires a skilled player. I mean you even got Painuser to say that they're broken and I never thought we'd hear painuser say any aspect of the race was powerful. | ||
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MonsieurGrimm
Canada2441 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:50 DyEnasTy wrote: you sound exactly like zergs in BW did when terrans started using vultures in the matchup. You can/will figure out ways to limit the amount of damage hellions do. as a SupCom player I'm actually curious what BW zergs did? not talking about balance and shit just wondering | ||
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TuElite
Canada2123 Posts
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Goatlust88
Australia69 Posts
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:41 quiet noise wrote: well the thing is, no meta-game shift is ever going to change the fact that the infestor pretty much counters everything (fungual owns armored/stacked infantery, neural parasite is the ultimate counter to massive units and infested terran is one of the best harrasment tools). thats a matter of balance/game mechanics, not meta game. Imagine if Colossus was able to attack air. that would be straight up overpowered, and no "meta game shift" would change the fact that this one unit counters everything. The balance discussion is pretty much centered around zvp.... Even painuser disagreed with incontrol about infestors being imbalanced in ZvT. Muta ling is still much more effective in zvt and good drop harass play really makes it harder to open with infestors. Plus there are still metagame shifts going on that's changing the matchup RIGHT NOW. The slayers build is looking really strong right now, if you're talking about good harassment tools, I'd rather have blue flame hellions than infested terrans. Even though infestors are the most versatile in the game doesn't even make them the best unit in the game. There's a reason why nestea and the best zvters out there still use primarily ling bling muta over infestors. Terrans right now are still learning how to use ghosts properly. I'm surprised the balance discussion at the end was centered around infestors though. I mean terran GSL players hvae been absolutely dominating not only code S but code A for the past two seasons, why no talk of that? Is it merely because there aren't many good toss players? Is MC the only one? Terran has mvp, bomber, optimus, mma, while zerg have nestea, losira, drg. I'd like to know why they think tosses haven't been doing so well lately. | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
inControl would be bashing IdrA right now if he didnt have to cast EG Masters Cup  | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On August 10 2011 09:54 Warrior Madness wrote: I'm surprised the balanced discussion at the end was centered around infestors though. I mean terran GSL players hvae been absolutely dominating not only code S but code A for the past two seasons, why no talk of that? Is it merely because there aren't many good toss players? Is MC the only one? Terran has mvp, bomber, optimus, mma, while zerg have nestea, losira, drg. This is the main problem Protoss players have no hero Mc has not won shit in ages, he didn't even with MLG, Homestory, NASL, nor even Dreamhack. His last big tourney win was StarWars, and he had tons of PvP in his face to win that, with no strong terran competition. Now he how knocked down to the up and down. Alicia is doing pretty poorly HongUn is never going to win a championship, he is forever stuck as a Ro32-4 player who is one step below a GSL win SangHo isn't impressive lately.. If there was just one Protoss to latch on to and leech builds from people would be a lot more quiet. NesTea was the only zerg winning for aroun 4-5 months until Losira was trained up and DRG appeared out of nowhere, now zergs have GSL heros. | ||
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