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EG seems to have made reasonable accommodations and may have omitted more than we would have liked in these discussions but it turns out so did JP. Sometimes things don't work out and I applaud EG for coming out and having a discussion on this. Having the Executive Director come out to directly address an issue is about as much as they can do.
Not wanting to discuss what JP is doing with SotG because it is not their place is totally reasonable. JP not wanting to share every detail of things that may never happen is equally reasonable.
Basically this.
However, the fact that i agree makes me realize how grown up the SC community is becoming.
I understand the starcraft community's demand for full transparency as this community has had the benefit of enjoying such a close relationship between audience and player or audience to content producer. Im sure everyone would agree that this symbiotic relationship is what makes the starcraft community so great.
But the sudden influx of all these sponsors trying to get in on the business opportunity that is obviously present has kind of shaken up our intimate little setup here.
I will be interested to see which side gives in first: that the community will accept that they are no longer going to enjoy the luxury of that full transparency or will we see more like what EG did on yesterday's ITG and try to accommodate the community with information they are not used to having to divulge as per normal business practice.
I understand Tyler's argument that he seems to be making and the overarching idea i think he tried to express on SOTG a while back about the importance of TeamLiquid as a place that should be free from so-called "PR" and be more transparent. It would indeed be a shame to lose this sort of personal honesty but I wonder how long it can last as SC continues to grow.
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"@TOPIC/QUESTION: "
What is the opinion of you guys of any of the new teams (or existing teams) that are popping up and signing bigger players? (vile signing illusion, VP signing PainUser and HD, etc) Mainly the teams that are not at the forefront like EG, Liquid, but the teams such as vile, vVv, and VP. Will they make any waves in the community? or do you have any predictions on how any of them will do in bigger tournaments such as MLG or TL Opens, etc.? Have you guys played any of them on ladder and how would you rank them among the other players that you face in tournaments?
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I don't think it's wrong of EG to share this information, but I certainly don't think they should feel the need to - or that we should demand it.
Not every detail about everything needs to be made public.
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What I'd like to see before people declare false information as fact is just some tiny effort on their part to even confirm the nonsense they continue to spout. For example, no one can seem to link me where Incontrol or JP said incontrol was leaving and money WAS NOT in any way a motivating factor. Hell they can't even link to a tangent source like scoots saying this. All we got was an image from scoots telling incontrol there is no problem with him being on SOTG as a guest.
I don't recall where the making fun of conspiracy theorists part is, it was on a show I think in response to a caller but I can't remember which one. I did find part of what people are complaining about though just to give you some perspective.
If you look at http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/archive/lo3/item/137-lo3-073.html
at around 55 minutes, Scoots basically says he doesn't want to answer questions about the situation and it is what is, then Wheat goes into a rant making fun of anyone who thinks Incontrol left because of money reasons by presenting a ridiculous and funny exaggerated example of it with Scoots sitting there the whole time.
To be fair in that segment Scoots said nothing wrong, and Wheat has professed to not having any prior knowledge of the situation so it is unfair to attack him on what he said there. The part some may find irritating is Scoots sitting on the call basically letting Wheat make fun of people who thought it was about the money.
Personally though I feel this issue was pretty much over when Alex came on the show yesterday, they cleared the air and told us what happened that is really all I and I think most people wanted at that point.
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I missed the episode  ... when is it going to be up... sounds like there was an interesting discussion.
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It's just business. I think people feel such a close connection to the people in sc2 that they don't expect PR BS out of them. But it's clear the industry is becoming large enough that all the corporate trappings are coming along for the ride. At least now we know not to blindly trust what people say.
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The first part of yesterdays ITG was uploaded to the LO3 blip site for some reason.
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On June 30 2011 02:33 Zauvryn wrote:
I don't know how people can get so upset when there's obviously no animosity between the people actually affected by this situation. All that's happening here is fans making drama where there needn't be any and dragging all parties involved into this muck. Stop it. Please.
The vast majority of us enjoy the products both ItG and SotG, both DJWheat and JP, and we can't do that while they're struggling to put down the constant conspiracy theories and drama-mongering.
Their clearly is some animosity between Tyler and Scoots, and who knows whats going on behind the scenes.
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On June 30 2011 02:33 Zauvryn wrote:
I don't know how people can get so upset when there's obviously no animosity between the people actually affected by this situation. All that's happening here is fans making drama where there needn't be any and dragging all parties involved into this muck. Stop it. Please.
The vast majority of us enjoy the products both ItG and SotG, both DJWheat and JP, and we can't do that while they're struggling to put down the constant conspiracy theories and drama-mongering.
It's like saying Conan O Brian is ruining television because Jay Leno was there first this is crap why can't you watch both shows... Why does it matter if Incontrol does one and stops doing another? Just watch the show and enjoy... People want to forget the time and money put into these shows its not just about whos on what show its about the content and hearing from the people who make it... Plenty of people have filtered through State of the Game do you really think they won't find another pro to talk about being a pro... Come on guys lets put on our big boy pants and play nice...
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On June 30 2011 06:41 pcalderhead wrote:
The first part of yesterdays ITG was uploaded to the LO3 blip site for some reason.
So was the iTunes podcast.
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On June 30 2011 01:02 MrBorto wrote:
This is just bad business. If you have a problem with the Complexity offer, make a counter offer don't steal the hosts and make a competing show. With Incontrol, Idra and the other hosts still on SOTG promoting onemoregame.tv the site would certainly have the added viewers today to more than make up for ITG.
....Did you actually listen to the show before coming on here to give your 2 cents?
Here is a nice summary made by somebody in the SotG thread.
* SotG was offered a sponsorship deal by Soundblaster, arranged by compLexity. This meant that pillars (participants?) of the show would have received monetary benefits.
* This conflicted with one or some of EG's sponsors, since Geoff in particular was acting as a co-host and not a mere guest like Idra.
* EG negotiated an alternative offer with one if its own sponsors, so Geoff could have stayed as a co-host. For whatever reason, a final agreement could not be reached.
* At this point it was likely Geoff would have not been able to continue being a co-host of SotG, resulting in a potential loss of money on his side. EG went forward to increase his salary together with creating a new show along with new sponsorship deals to justify the raise. The goal was to compensate this potential "loss". This show was ITG as a part of the new platform onemoregame.tv
* By the time business arrangements for onemoregame.tv were already established, it turned out the initial Soundblaster deal didn't come about either. This eliminated the conflict.
* However, Geoff was already head over heels committed. It was exactly the time he had come to the conclusion that his play is lacking because of that. Unfortunately, a large part of his activities are due to legally binding contracts. In order to cut down, SotG was one of the few "voluntary" activities and therefore was most likely to give.
They did offer an alternative, they didn't steal hosts to hurt SotG, EG went out of its way to try to resolve this in a way that wouldn't hurt SotG (Offer their own sponsorship) and to best look after their player (Help ItG, raise inControls salary and so on). This isn't some huge scandal or conspiracy to hurt ESPORTS, it's just people trying best look out for their interests and come to reasonable compromises (raised salary, guest apperances and so on).
In conclusion to paraphrase a famous author;
EG is not your bitch.
Incontrol is not your bitch.
JP is not your bitch.
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On June 30 2011 05:57 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +What I'd like to see before people declare false information as fact is just some tiny effort on their part to even confirm the nonsense they continue to spout. For example, no one can seem to link me where Incontrol or JP said incontrol was leaving and money WAS NOT in any way a motivating factor. Hell they can't even link to a tangent source like scoots saying this. All we got was an image from scoots telling incontrol there is no problem with him being on SOTG as a guest. I don't recall where the making fun of conspiracy theorists part is, it was on a show I think in response to a caller but I can't remember which one. I did find part of what people are complaining about though just to give you some perspective. If you look at http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/archive/lo3/item/137-lo3-073.htmlat around 55 minutes, Scoots basically says he doesn't want to answer questions about the situation and it is what is, then Wheat goes into a rant making fun of anyone who thinks Incontrol left because of money reasons by presenting a ridiculous and funny exaggerated example of it with Scoots sitting there the whole time. To be fair in that segment Scoots said nothing wrong, and Wheat has professed to not having any prior knowledge of the situation so it is unfair to attack him on what he said there. The part some may find irritating is Scoots sitting on the call basically letting Wheat make fun of people who thought it was about the money. Personally though I feel this issue was pretty much over when Alex came on the show yesterday, they cleared the air and told us what happened that is really all I and I think most people wanted at that point.
But that whole thing is on Wheat not Scoots. And what's scoots gonna say to wheat anyway? If he shushes him it's going to look awkward, scoots did the right thing by letting wheat say whatever he wanted to say on the show that wheat hosts.
You don't often see shows where guests correct the host.
All this does is further prove that EG didn't lie about anything, that EG took the high road like they were supposed to do, and people made up crazy crap anyway to suit who they felt should be the bad guy.
There should be a lot more people than there is doing a 180 on how they feel about EG but they aren't because, and I hate to keep repeating myself, certain people in the community love to demonize and galvanize folks in a negative way toward a company that we actually benefit from having around. Directly or indirectly.
So I think EG as an organization earned a lot of respect from the folks in the community capable of discerning the truth through all the muck. Not only that, but it takes a lot of guts to go on a show, be called into the spotlight, and actually reveal behind the scenes details. That isn't easy. It's a delicate dance that can easily backfire. But they did it anyway. It's safe to say that at this point there is nothing humorous about how EG runs their business side of things.
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why is the mp3 not uploaded yet?
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Where can i watch a Vod of the most recent episode? is it up yet?
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On June 30 2011 15:59 Buges wrote:
Where can i watch a Vod of the most recent episode? is it up yet?
http://www.justin.tv/onemoregametv/b/289071245
The 2nd part isn't up on Blip yet. The stuff about the shows starts at like 1h:40m in or so (maybe it's 1:35)
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Now that I have had the opportunity to listen to Episode 8 of ItG I do not really understand why so many people are so upset about what is going on.
Yeah it is sad that Incontrol left SotG and I believe a huge deal of why things went that way was miscommunication between the parties involved. And then suddenly there is no turning back and you are bound to some contract you can't get out of so quickly.
After all, it is saddening how things went, but I don't see anyone being the "bad" guy in this. Esports has become tough business and is not anymore the cozy "we are all personal friends"-community it used to be. Tt has become too professional for it to be that way.
I like ItG and SotG is coming back. So, why not look at the bright side of this:
We are going to have two amazing SC2 shows on a weekly basis!
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On June 30 2011 08:01 CrossTheRiver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 05:57 Duravi wrote:What I'd like to see before people declare false information as fact is just some tiny effort on their part to even confirm the nonsense they continue to spout. For example, no one can seem to link me where Incontrol or JP said incontrol was leaving and money WAS NOT in any way a motivating factor. Hell they can't even link to a tangent source like scoots saying this. All we got was an image from scoots telling incontrol there is no problem with him being on SOTG as a guest. I don't recall where the making fun of conspiracy theorists part is, it was on a show I think in response to a caller but I can't remember which one. I did find part of what people are complaining about though just to give you some perspective. If you look at http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/archive/lo3/item/137-lo3-073.htmlat around 55 minutes, Scoots basically says he doesn't want to answer questions about the situation and it is what is, then Wheat goes into a rant making fun of anyone who thinks Incontrol left because of money reasons by presenting a ridiculous and funny exaggerated example of it with Scoots sitting there the whole time. To be fair in that segment Scoots said nothing wrong, and Wheat has professed to not having any prior knowledge of the situation so it is unfair to attack him on what he said there. The part some may find irritating is Scoots sitting on the call basically letting Wheat make fun of people who thought it was about the money. Personally though I feel this issue was pretty much over when Alex came on the show yesterday, they cleared the air and told us what happened that is really all I and I think most people wanted at that point. But that whole thing is on Wheat not Scoots. And what's scoots gonna say to wheat anyway? If he shushes him it's going to look awkward, scoots did the right thing by letting wheat say whatever he wanted to say on the show that wheat hosts. You don't often see shows where guests correct the host. All this does is further prove that EG didn't lie about anything, that EG took the high road like they were supposed to do, and people made up crazy crap anyway to suit who they felt should be the bad guy. There should be a lot more people than there is doing a 180 on how they feel about EG but they aren't because, and I hate to keep repeating myself, certain people in the community love to demonize and galvanize folks in a negative way toward a company that we actually benefit from having around. Directly or indirectly. So I think EG as an organization earned a lot of respect from the folks in the community capable of discerning the truth through all the muck. Not only that, but it takes a lot of guts to go on a show, be called into the spotlight, and actually reveal behind the scenes details. That isn't easy. It's a delicate dance that can easily backfire. But they did it anyway. It's safe to say that at this point there is nothing humorous about how EG runs their business side of things.
You defend EG like they pay you or something. They went to explain only after a shitstorm brewed from the screenshots of Incontrols stream, they let Wheat jokes about Inc leaving due to money yet it was true etc. I think that their PR image after all this is pretty low in the eyes of alot of people, regardless of how you try to convince everyone that they are the good guys and how they do everything right in every regard.
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I feel sorry for JP He wasn't all that well known until SotG and now Wheat and friends basically slapped him in the face and stole his show. (I know there's no hard feelings between them)
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On July 01 2011 00:53 ProxyKnoxy wrote:I feel sorry for JP He wasn't all that well known until SotG and now Wheat and friends basically slapped him in the face and stole his show. (I know there's no hard feelings between them)
I wouldn't feel sorry. The show's been on break for like a month now, and there's still buzz around it.
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On July 01 2011 00:53 ProxyKnoxy wrote:I feel sorry for JP He wasn't all that well known until SotG and now Wheat and friends basically slapped him in the face and stole his show. (I know there's no hard feelings between them)
They are two completely different shows. So sick of seeing some of the most stupid posts in the last few days in the ITG and SotG thread.
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EPT
