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renlynn
Profile Joined May 2011
United States276 Posts
January 16 2013 23:57 GMT
#8621
On January 17 2013 08:36 FilipSRB wrote:
Congrats esports, you're on the cover of PC Gamer!


good to see at least one good thing came out of this
dr.fahrenheit
Profile Joined January 2013
Austria101 Posts
January 16 2013 23:58 GMT
#8622
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
baldgye
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom1092 Posts
January 16 2013 23:59 GMT
#8623
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


...what does that even mean?
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
January 17 2013 00:00 GMT
#8624
The debate is pretty typical between insiders and journalists. Insiders think journalists are slimy troll-baiters trying to steal the limelight for their own benefit. Journalists insist they're serving the public by providing information that the public wants, they're not obligated to serve insiders or be advertisers.

In fairness, people have plenty of similar criticism for ESPN, the New York Times, the Financial Times, Fox News, etc., particularly with online advertising and PR.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
January 17 2013 00:01 GMT
#8625
On January 17 2013 08:59 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


...what does that even mean?

his crass way of saying dont use the size of the community as an excuse.
HorsemasterK
Profile Joined August 2010
United States606 Posts
January 17 2013 00:02 GMT
#8626
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


Yeah fuckers, man up and hire the PR managers you can not yet afford.
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
January 17 2013 00:03 GMT
#8627
I'm not really surprised to the article since EG more or less bashed journalism in general. within the domain of Journalism Slasher actually is doing his job which should be considered ethical so of course other journalists will come to his defense.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10126 Posts
January 17 2013 00:06 GMT
#8628
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


I don't give a crap about esports teams which are entirely marketing agencies. And to be honest, gaming media if anything has been for the last years horribad, and some of the faults are specially with the embargos.
dr.fahrenheit
Profile Joined January 2013
Austria101 Posts
January 17 2013 00:06 GMT
#8629
On January 17 2013 08:59 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


...what does that even mean?


It means stop making excuses, esports doesn't need special rules, it's not "impaired" in any way it is not too small and it should be able to handle such things just fine.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
baldgye
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom1092 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-17 00:07:46
January 17 2013 00:06 GMT
#8630
On January 17 2013 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:59 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


...what does that even mean?

his crass way of saying dont use the size of the community as an excuse.


It's not really an excuse, it's just a matter of fact.
I'm all for good journalism, it's one of the reasons why The Verge has fast become one of my favorite sites... but eSports lacks that 'go to' guy for good professional level journalism, and Slasher bearly provides tabloid level reporting.

I'm all for a free press that can report what ever it likes, but you have to be smart about how you do it, and work with the people your reporting on. The industry Slasher is in-on (the reason he has a job) is telling him that he's harming there income and there ability to exist, instead of just ignooring that and carrying on he should be working with them so that when actual shit goes down, he is there... instead just reporting anything as it happens only serves to destory all your sources and any ability to do your job.



I agree with the notion of a free press, I don't want things surpressed becasue it benefits team X/Y but it dsn't make sense for him to 'report' in the way that he is.. and do so little of anything else... anything thats worth consuming... articals like that one on PC Gamer...
Slider954
Profile Joined March 2011
United States342 Posts
January 17 2013 00:12 GMT
#8631
On January 17 2013 08:59 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


...what does that even mean?


Pretty sure he's saying that if esports really wants to be treated seriously and relevant, everybody needs to get their shit together and man up. That means minding your P's and Q's for teams when it comes to player transactions and the like. It means players need to start acting like pros and adults than some immature teenagers. It means leagues and tourneys need to start delivering on what they promise for content and prize money. All of these situations have made major drama in the past say 6 months, if not a shorter time period. And it doesn't look good at all

In short it means ESPORTS really needs to start handling their shit, NOW.
Best in the world at what I do
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
January 17 2013 00:12 GMT
#8632
I don't really listen to this show, but why is it 3-4 people from EG, DJ Wheat, and then Slasher? It seems rather absurd to just have everyone ganging up on him.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
MistaBlue
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
37 Posts
January 17 2013 00:13 GMT
#8633
As a current PR professional and someone who majored in journalism at college, I can understand both sides. But when you question the journalist because he broke news when there was no embargo in place? You lose that argument. The fact remains it is the responsibility of organizations (whether you're Bank of America, the Chicago Bulls, or Evil Geniuses) to manage NDA's and enforce embargo's. That is in NO WAY the responsibility of the journalist and for Geoff to talk as if he knows the ethics of journalism just because his team lost a bit of hype seems both immature and offensive to me as a fan. It's unfortunate because I usually side with Geoff on his arguments but he was way off base on this and spoke out of complete ignorance for the way public relations professionals and journalists communicate. He is a great representative and brand for Evil Geniuses, but he should not try to guilt journalists in the name of e-sports; it comes off as desperate and cheap (which are qualities I have never associated with Evil Geniuses, making it all the more surprising for me).

I hope people will understand that the onus is on the PR staff and NOT the journalist to make sure policies are in place and that news is properly communicated to the journalists.
Boner Amanda
dr.fahrenheit
Profile Joined January 2013
Austria101 Posts
January 17 2013 00:15 GMT
#8634
On January 17 2013 09:12 Slider954 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 08:59 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


...what does that even mean?


Pretty sure he's saying that if esports really wants to be treated seriously and relevant, everybody needs to get their shit together and man up. That means minding your P's and Q's for teams when it comes to player transactions and the like. It means players need to start acting like pros and adults than some immature teenagers. It means leagues and tourneys need to start delivering on what they promise for content and prize money. All of these situations have made major drama in the past say 6 months, if not a shorter time period. And it doesn't look good at all

In short it means ESPORTS really needs to start handling their shit, NOW.


hey, get out of my head!
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
January 17 2013 00:15 GMT
#8635
It's important to acknowledge Slasher's role as an investigative journalist, and he has been doing a GREAT job on it. However, the problem I have with him is that he leaks out a lot of information to the point that he seems more like a tabloid writer. However, at the same time, EG needs to understand that they need to get their information better secured because how in the world does Slasher get the info in the first place? Slasher needs to respect privacy while EG needs to realize that a journalist has to be extremely aggressive with information hunting. That's that.
Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-17 00:21:13
January 17 2013 00:18 GMT
#8636
On January 17 2013 09:06 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:59 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


...what does that even mean?

his crass way of saying dont use the size of the community as an excuse.


It's not really an excuse, it's just a matter of fact.
I'm all for good journalism, it's one of the reasons why The Verge has fast become one of my favorite sites... but eSports lacks that 'go to' guy for good professional level journalism, and Slasher bearly provides tabloid level reporting.

I'm all for a free press that can report what ever it likes, but you have to be smart about how you do it, and work with the people your reporting on. The industry Slasher is in-on (the reason he has a job) is telling him that he's harming there income and there ability to exist, instead of just ignooring that and carrying on he should be working with them so that when actual shit goes down, he is there... instead just reporting anything as it happens only serves to destory all your sources and any ability to do your job.



I agree with the notion of a free press, I don't want things surpressed becasue it benefits team X/Y but it dsn't make sense for him to 'report' in the way that he is.. and do so little of anything else... anything thats worth consuming... articals like that one on PC Gamer...

Just a note: nothing here is a "free press" issue. Freedom of the press is a constraint on the government's ability to punish or imprison you for publishing articles. So EG would lose if they tried to sue Slasher for damages or asked the police to arrest him.

I have to point out that Slasher's duty first and foremost is to his readers. If you don't want him to post the news like this, then don't read his articles (i.e. Gamespot). Slasher might be hampered if he is indeed pissing off insiders and teams start clamping down on leaks.

It seems ripe if someone else wants to go into eSports journalism and is willing to burn fewer bridges to get juicy information. But people get scooped and it sucks for anyone trying to publish new information. Like the PC Gamer article says, EG should concentrate harder on stopping leaks and putting information out there faster than trying to discourage Slasher from scooping them when he can.

EDIT: And in fairness, Slasher basically laid out every way that he gets information. Teams should make their new announcements before players and tournaments change their team names.
fuzzylogic44
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada2633 Posts
January 17 2013 00:20 GMT
#8637
On January 17 2013 09:12 GolemMadness wrote:
I don't really listen to this show, but why is it 3-4 people from EG, DJ Wheat, and then Slasher? It seems rather absurd to just have everyone ganging up on him.


Who ganged up on him? It was just Alex.
baldgye
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom1092 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-17 00:23:19
January 17 2013 00:21 GMT
#8638
On January 17 2013 09:18 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2013 09:06 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:59 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:58 dr.fahrenheit wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:53 baldgye wrote:
On January 17 2013 08:32 Serpico wrote:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/editorial-does-esports-understand-journalism/


While his points are valid (and its one of the reasons why originally I was on Slashers side), he dsn't actually take into account how Slasher posts his 'news' and the negative impact this has on a very small community.
If eSports was as big or even half as big as anyother main sport or olypic level sport, then this debate wouldn't be happening becasue the scene would be proven stable and big enough to manage with things like that.


If you wanna play with the big boys some day, start fucking acting like one


...what does that even mean?

his crass way of saying dont use the size of the community as an excuse.


It's not really an excuse, it's just a matter of fact.
I'm all for good journalism, it's one of the reasons why The Verge has fast become one of my favorite sites... but eSports lacks that 'go to' guy for good professional level journalism, and Slasher bearly provides tabloid level reporting.

I'm all for a free press that can report what ever it likes, but you have to be smart about how you do it, and work with the people your reporting on. The industry Slasher is in-on (the reason he has a job) is telling him that he's harming there income and there ability to exist, instead of just ignooring that and carrying on he should be working with them so that when actual shit goes down, he is there... instead just reporting anything as it happens only serves to destory all your sources and any ability to do your job.



I agree with the notion of a free press, I don't want things surpressed becasue it benefits team X/Y but it dsn't make sense for him to 'report' in the way that he is.. and do so little of anything else... anything thats worth consuming... articals like that one on PC Gamer...

Just a note: nothing here is a "free press" issue. Freedom of the press is a constraint on the government's ability to punish or imprison you for publishing articles. So EG would lose if they tried to sue Slasher for damages or asked the police to arrest him.

I have to point out that Slasher's duty first and foremost is to his readers. If you don't want him to post the news like this, then don't read his articles (i.e. Gamespot). Slasher might be hampered if he is indeed pissing off insiders and teams start clamping down on leaks.

It seems ripe if someone else wants to go into eSports journalism and is willing to burn fewer bridges to get juicy information. But people get scooped and it sucks for anyone trying to publish new information. Like the PC Gamer article says, EG should concentrate harder on stopping leaks and putting information out there faster than trying to discourage Slasher from scooping them when he can.



For the record, I don't read his posts becasue I've yet to come across anything I'd consider anything more than empty trashy tabliod garbage.

But I kinda dissagree with the point that if someone else wanted to come in and get all the 'scoops' they could becasue Slasher has burned so many bridges (it seems) and pissed off a bunch of influential people that it would make it really hard for someone else to come in and gain any kind of trust with people who could become sources...


edit: and yeah I think EG point out leaks as Slashers fault and damaging as crazy and misplaced, but the reasoning fair... I just think its misplaced anger that Slasher does little to dispell
Ballack
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway821 Posts
January 17 2013 00:26 GMT
#8639
Slasher is in the wrong on this one. The point Garfield makes regarding the difference between how teams make their money in esports and regular sports is a very important one, and Slasher never gave any sort of argument as to why his short "breaking news" articles gain anyone else than himself and Gamespot. And him saying that is was a good discussion...It was a terrible discussion because Slasher never addressed points made by actors of the other side of the "discussion", he actually didn't further or enlighten anything other than saying something like "it's the news and people deserve to hear them" which is an inherently foul and weak argument.
Just when I thought I was out, Blizz pulled me back in..
MuseMike
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1339 Posts
January 17 2013 00:28 GMT
#8640
On January 17 2013 09:26 Ballack wrote:
Slasher is in the wrong on this one. The point Garfield makes regarding the difference between how teams make their money in esports and regular sports is a very important one, and Slasher never gave any sort of argument as to why his short "breaking news" articles gain anyone else than himself and Gamespot. And him saying that is was a good discussion...It was a terrible discussion because Slasher never addressed points made by actors of the other side of the "discussion", he actually didn't further or enlighten anything other than saying something like "it's the news and people deserve to hear them" which is an inherently foul and weak argument.

So you are saying Slasher can't make money but teams can? Maybe the teams need to NDA information like every other industry does.
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