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Grettin
42381 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:36 Warpath wrote: What exactly was the announcement that was leaked? All i can find is the drama surrounding it :S Slasher has been fairly correct with his announcements. Snute, Jaedong, Thorzain(?), Axiom... if thats what you were asking. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:36 EuroRabbit wrote: Go look at all of the most upvoted comments on reddit, all they are doing is shitting on EG because its the "cool" thing to do. Thinks like "fuck EG" and "im tired of incontrols biased opinion" and "EGwheat just spouts what EG tells them to". People are just so ignorant and uneducated as to the real world and whats going on. Well it is the internet. People love to freak out about anything. I hear that people freaked out about the ending of a game once, like it was the end of the world. And a bunch of fans of the new Devil May Cry(which is apparently fucking awesome) freaked out because the color of the main characters hair changed. People will freak out about anything at all and then people who kinda care will join them, because, well they arn't doing anything else. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:37 Penev wrote: You make a valid point but you're also just adding to the drama. I've read quite a few reasonable posts who criticise Alex and EG. You're overreacting; Particularly about the self destruction. It would be nice if both people in the community including team bosses and just people in general could control their emotions a little better. Or in other words: Think before they speak. Alex clearly didn't do that yesterday while TB clearly did. Alex is a really young guy too, under 30 years old. That is not an excuse, but he is not as seasoned as TB or Jason Lake. He also busts his ass for EG, so I am not suprised that he may have let his emotions get a little out of hand. | ||
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dr.fahrenheit
Austria101 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:32 Plansix wrote: I posted in this thread and I knew he was not talking about me. I don't think he is wrong that there a good number of people in these threads that are only posting to crap on EG and Alex, and don't really care about the subject. A lot of the people who care are not posting in this thread because. My girlfriend hates the Esports drama and just likes watching games. The same with my friends who watch LoL and SC2. R/starcraft is a trash pile at all times. I haven't gone there in over a year. I don't know about r/starcraft I actually have never been there; I only just started posting on TL, but I'm a long time reader of threads and of course I have seen a fair share of "drama" or arguing just for the sake of arguing, but my general impression is that a lot of people just are passionate about certain topics regarding esports or SC2 here. A lot of people post here because they care enough to do so. It speaks volumes that i.e.: people like idra participate in this discussion with "regular" community members. It says that it's an actual discussion which does take place, not just random shitstorming, and that is a good thing. The worst people in my oppinion are the ones who come here and post stuff like "I read the thread, I'm surprised how stupid you all are, you are doomed, you disgust me, and of course I have the answer to your discussion because I'm so smart" | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On January 17 2013 06:14 BlackPanther wrote: Ok then. Propose to me a better solution for esports? How in fuck hell are teams suppose to get revenue other than through sponsorship. Tell me? Subscriptions? People get fickle about 5 dollar PPV for 100s of hours of content so that won't work. T-shirt sales? Maybe a bake sale. Tell me please. Sorry, I've been away from the thread for a bit. The answer is simple. The implementation is difficult. Just like every other industry, you compete for consumers' entertainment dollars. Pleading for the success of eSports is nothing more than stamping feet in a childlike tantrum. If a business is to succeed, it provides a service or product that enough people are willing to spend enough money on to sustain its success. eSports is no different. Blizzard develops games that people want to play. People spend their entertainment dollars on these games, and Blizzard has been successful for a number of years. Just because a group of people would like to play video games for a living doesn't make it sustainable. Certain players are able to for various reasons, mainly because they are the most entertaining and people watch. Ultimately, if eSports isn't interesting enough / mainstream enough to draw enough revenue to sustain itself, it won't. Is it really that surprising that it's difficult to make a living, let alone operate a successful business, which revolves around playing video games ? Long term, address the reasons that hold eSports back from being mainstream. Such topics might include video game violence, online immaturity, perception that playing video games is not productive or contributory to society. Look at the UFC as an example. It started out very much as a niche. They made a number of changes to their model, have gone completely mainstream, and now they are a huge industry. | ||
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EuroRabbit
United States39 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:24 philip697 wrote: Which 5 teams were involved, and who in those teams knew about this? That's the kind of shit EG need to know. Information like this is their revenue source, so they need to have tighter control over it. Otherwise you can't really moan about what happens after. If your sink has a leak, you don't blame the floor for getting wet - you find the leak and plug it. Someone, somewhere should definitely be getting their ass kicked for this, but I'm not sure it should be Slasher. Ok so let me help people understand what happens. If you have 5 teams bidding on 1 player and they are all talking to each other, and when 4 of them say "nope, didn't get him" and one remains silent then the teams know who got that player. Even if it isn't that obvious, its easy enough to figure it out when you look at how much a player is asking and what teams are bidding can actually afford this. So what happens is one of the other teams bidding on the player leaks the information in one way or another by talking to someone, who then talks to someone who then talks to Slasher. Once he has more then two sources of information that he can trust, he just goes ahead and plops it out on twitter to kill the hype and surprise that could have been built around it. Now if Slasher wasn't lazy/attention hungry and actually cared about improving esports, what he should have done is gone to EG and said "hey, I know you are acquiring stephano, can I do an exclusive interview?" At that point he then deos an in depth interview with stephano at some point and releases the story just after EG breaks the news to everyone. This type of journalism benefits EVERYONE involved, not just EG, not just the community and not just Slasher. Why is this SO hard for people to understand? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:43 dr.fahrenheit wrote: I don't know about r/starcraft I actually have never been there; I only just started posting on TL, but I'm a long time reader of threads and of course I have seen a fair share of "drama" or arguing just for the sake of arguing, but my general impression is that a lot of people just are passionate about certain topics regarding esports or SC2 here. A lot of people post here because they care enough to do so. It speaks volumes that i.e.: people like idra participate in this discussion with "regular" community members. It says that it's an actual discussion which does take place, not just random shitstorming, and that is a good thing. The worst people in my oppinion are the ones who come here and post stuff like "I read the thread, I'm surprised how stupid you all are, you are doomed, you disgust me, and of course I have the answer to your discussion because I'm so smart" I recommend you go to the Starcraft section of Reddit when something like this happens. The amount of stupid is sort of mind blowing and you will understand what he is talking about. | ||
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yawnoC
United States3704 Posts
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
The kind of hate that DJ Wheat and InControl/Idra get over there, when they didn't even do anything controversial this time, is absurd. It's a giant echo chamber and they celebrate it (commonly referencing the circle jerk). If there's one thing the internet does well it is reveal insights about human nature and psychology, not all of it pleasant. | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:53 zefreak wrote: i'm a regular reader of r/starcraft and it can be quite the cesspool, not to say that TL doesn't act the same way sometimes (obviously there is crossover between communities). The kind of hate that DJ Wheat and InControl/Idra get over there, when they didn't even do anything controversial this time, is absurd. It's a giant echo chamber and they celebrate it (commonly referencing the circle jerk). If there's one thing the internet does well it is reveal insights about human nature and psychology, not all of it pleasant. Completely missing the irony of this very thing happening in this thread (and on TL in general) in regards to Reddit. There's some really stupid shit said on r/starcraft sometimes, but there's also some really stupid shit said on TL. TL might be marginally better, due to the forum format. Just completely disregarding an entire community (125k subscribers, probably many more who read and comment regularly) is at least as bad as whatever unsavory flavor-of-the-day thing happens to be said on Reddit. The hypocrisy is astounding. And that goes for r/starcraft as well, too often. | ||
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EuroRabbit
United States39 Posts
On January 17 2013 08:01 Nimic wrote: Completely missing the irony of this very thing happening in this thread (and on TL in general) in regards to Reddit. There's some really stupid shit said on r/starcraft sometimes, but there's also some really stupid shit said on TL. TL might be marginally better, due to the forum format. Just completely disregarding an entire community (125k subscribers, probably many more who read and comment regularly) is at least as bad as whatever unsavory flavor-of-the-day thing happens to be said on Reddit. The hypocrisy is astounding. And that goes for r/starcraft as well, too often. r/starcraft is a joke. It adds NOTHING to this community but has taken away so much. | ||
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Penev
28475 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:43 Plansix wrote: Alex is a really young guy too, under 30 years old. That is not an excuse, but he is not as seasoned as TB or Jason Lake. He also busts his ass for EG, so I am not suprised that he may have let his emotions get a little out of hand. I obviously don't know Alex personally but he's probably a nice, friendly guy. But someone in his position (and age) should know better than to come on the show and act like he did. This was better dealt with behind the scenes. If you do want to come on the show prepare yourself and act like TB did. This "drama" is for a big part caused by his behavior, not by his point of view. Don't get me wrong, I personally don't think it's a big deal what he did; Usually I cannot watch these kind of shows live so I first read these threads, than watch the show and notice nothing really happened. | ||
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dr.fahrenheit
Austria101 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:45 Plansix wrote: I recommend you go to the Starcraft section of Reddit when something like this happens. The amount of stupid is sort of mind blowing and you will understand what he is talking about. I believe you, but that's a case of do you want to discuss/argue with fans (maybe on TL,which is a fun and healthy thing) or do you want to discuss with a fanboy (on r/starcraft which is impossible) Just think about soccer: fans of soccer share a passion, but "fanboys" of teams are willing to literally kill each other (not just shit in forums on the other team); But here you still can ask yourself the question are those people good or bad for the whole community? Does something good come out of such hate and stupidity? Does it contribute to the whole character of the community? Would there be something missing without it? Would it be to boring? Idk... | ||
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mqv
3 Posts
On January 17 2013 08:07 Penev wrote: I obviously don't know Alex personally but he's probably a nice, friendly guy. But someone in his position (and age) should know better than to come on the show and act like he did. This was better dealt with behind the scenes. If you do want to come on the show prepare yourself and act like TB did. This "drama" is for a big part caused by his behavior, not by his point of view. Don't get me wrong, I personally don't think it's a big deal what he did; Usually I cannot watch these kind of shows live so I first read these threads, than watch the show and notice nothing really happened. "But someone in his position (and age) should know better than to come on the show and act like he did", Alex is kinda young considering his position. like the other guy said i know it's not an excuse for the way he acted but still cant expect much more from someone young in such a position. | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:44 EuroRabbit wrote: Now if Slasher wasn't lazy/attention hungry and actually cared about improving esports, what he should have done is gone to EG and said "hey, I know you are acquiring stephano, can I do an exclusive interview?" At that point he then deos an in depth interview with stephano at some point and releases the story just after EG breaks the news to everyone. This type of journalism benefits EVERYONE involved, not just EG, not just the community and not just Slasher. Why is this SO hard for people to understand? As has been said in other threads, it isn't Slasher's job to care about improving esports. He is a journalist, it is the job of a journalist to report news. You can define news however you like, but a change of players on a major team pretty clearly qualifies. I don't think you would argue the information was not news. So what you are arguing is that the journalist should delay in his/her responsibility to report the news in order to create hype for a team/player? Sure the idea that a reporter might land an exclusive interview would be a great story, but that isn't news. An interview is generally in reaction to news, which is the thing you do when you don't have any new news to report. It isn't Slasher's job to make sure esports succeeds --he may want it to succeed-- but he is not professionally obligated to seek that, like a member of Team EG would be. I don't really fault Alex Garfield for being mad, his grand plan got screwed up. That sucks. But Slasher doesn't need to apologize to anyone for doing his job. If Alex wants to be petty and ban Slasher from interviews or whatever, that's his prerogative, but that move IMO makes Alex look even more like the "bad guy" in this situation. Essentially banning someone for doing their job doesn't seem right to me. Either way you want to look at it, EG's plans got messed up. Slasher messed them up, but it wasn't like Slasher was being spiteful or purposely trying to fuck someone over. He was doing his job of reporting news. | ||
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fuzzylogic44
Canada2633 Posts
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TheSir
1830 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:44 EuroRabbit wrote: Now if Slasher wasn't lazy/attention hungry and actually cared about improving esports, what he should have done is gone to EG and said "hey, I know you are acquiring stephano, can I do an exclusive interview?" At that point he then deos an in depth interview with stephano at some point and releases the story just after EG breaks the news to everyone. This type of journalism benefits EVERYONE involved, not just EG, not just the community and not just Slasher. Why is this SO hard for people to understand? Does Slasher gets more exposure with having a scoop or with a exclusive interview? I would say the first one, i dont care about interviews like that. Players always say the same thing in announcements, just like in any other sport. You can almost do a interview anytime you want with players, a scoop on the other hand.... And improving esports... stop it please, thats not Slasher his concern and it's getting old. Esports is now something where players win a lot of money and in for example SC2 a lot of players dont even help to improve esports, a lot of them dont even watch anything and they dont care. | ||
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Me jan
Sweden72 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:44 EuroRabbit wrote: Ok so let me help people understand what happens. If you have 5 teams bidding on 1 player and they are all talking to each other, and when 4 of them say "nope, didn't get him" and one remains silent then the teams know who got that player. Even if it isn't that obvious, its easy enough to figure it out when you look at how much a player is asking and what teams are bidding can actually afford this. So what happens is one of the other teams bidding on the player leaks the information in one way or another by talking to someone, who then talks to someone who then talks to Slasher. Once he has more then two sources of information that he can trust, he just goes ahead and plops it out on twitter to kill the hype and surprise that could have been built around it. Now if Slasher wasn't lazy/attention hungry and actually cared about improving esports, what he should have done is gone to EG and said "hey, I know you are acquiring stephano, can I do an exclusive interview?" At that point he then deos an in depth interview with stephano at some point and releases the story just after EG breaks the news to everyone. This type of journalism benefits EVERYONE involved, not just EG, not just the community and not just Slasher. Why is this SO hard for people to understand? Maybe that could be solved if the teams too work together..If they could agree not to tell if they signed a player or not. They need to adapt to how the scene is to prevent stuff like this from happening. But the set-up of ITG yesterday was just bad, it didn't reflect as if they actually were gonna have a debate with diffrent views on the topic. | ||
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Funkydonky
950 Posts
On January 17 2013 08:18 fuzzylogic44 wrote: This whole thing has been mis-framed by everyone except maybe iNcontroL and djWHEAT. It's not about freedom of the press. No one has questioned Slasher's right to report what he likes. Just because you have the right to do something doesn't automatically mean you should do it. It's damaging to everyone including Slasher - that's the issue. That's a bad business model, if you can lose one of your biggest sponsors just because your announcement gets leaked (by yourself, because it's your announcement). Why does it matter if it's slasher, if it's leaked someone else will get to it... All i see here is alex garfield trying to bully someone, for his own fuck ups. | ||
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