On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
They do whatever is in their best interest. They don't bite the hand that feeds them. If they want to be successful, anyway.
So you want slasher to be an EG puppet and only announce things when they give him the go ahead? How is that different from just being an EG employee then?
It's called cooperating for the best interests of all parties.
On January 16 2013 13:30 HotGore wrote: Alex sounds out of touch with how information leaks and whose responsibility it is to control information. It is not Slasher's fault he got the information and reported it first, which is in the best interest of his employer.
No one is saying Slasher doesn't have every right to do it, it's that he shouldn't for the sake of everyone including himself ultimately. And as to Alex and information, see his twitter:
re: "if you don't want your news leaked, control your information better" - there are people outside of your company who'll find out.
for example: you sign a free agent with multiple teams bidding on him. or you sign a new player away from a different team. the others know.
it's not possible to "control the information" or prevent a leak with player transactions, because they by definition involve third-parties.
That is just too bad then isn't it. Intel sends CPUs out to hundreds of review sites, yet someone keep a good (not perfect) lid on benchmark results, which is the most important part of launching a CPU. It is possible, everyone just needs to actually work on keep information secret instead of being lazy and assuming that the boys club of esports won't spoil it so all the fans pushed into their splash page. And let's be honest, splash pages are stupid. I would rather read about a trade on gamestop than go through some long page with an annoying background.
And does Slasher leaking something actually hurt esports? You are assuming it does, but you lack any kind of numbers. The fact is you think it hurts esports, well I think it helps esports. It keeps people interested in what is going on and everyone likes to be part of a big scoop. I like it better when I hear leaks rather than tightly managed announcements. It also helps build a journalistic core in esports which expands the coverage which should help build and keep fans interested.
On January 16 2013 12:12 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Destiny is saying on Reddit that Slasher and other Journalists in esports shouldn't be strong-armed into being publicists for marketing organizations. They're Journalists, not publicists.
But it doesn't matter -- TotalBiscuit won't be listening. He's spouting his populist non-sense again. He does it a lot, and it's a good tactic, but it's ultimately useless. I'd dislike him if he wasn't popular.
There's no hyphen in nonsense.
If you're going to hijack my quote in an attempt to be funny at least have the decency not to butcher your punctuation.
On January 16 2013 13:30 HotGore wrote: Alex may think having some hyped up trade, splash page and video helps esports, but it really doesn't.
Maybe you should start talking to some smaller teams out there and help them become bigger teams than EG. So our scene can grow as a whole.
That would involve people that post on forums actually doing work to help the scene and that's difficult and it takes time and mom I don't wanna go to school today BRING ME MY FUCKING CHOCOLATE MILK
On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
They do whatever is in their best interest. They don't bite the hand that feeds them. If they want to be successful, anyway.
And yes, when it comes to the major news media and reporting on the government, banks, etc., this is a downfall because the investigative side tends to be brushed aside since it results in loss of access. That is a problem when trying to keep the government in check. It is not a problem when we're talking about an e-sports organization announcing a player signing.
As many of my journalism professors have said, "if you're not getting sued, you're not a good journalist"
So do you think that e-sports journalists should leak as much info as they possibly can, even if it results in the downfall of e-sports, thus eliminating their job? Is that a legitimate goal? Not saying that's happening or will happen, but that is the logical conclusion of this way of thinking.
if Slasher reporting Snute is joining TL a few days before TL does is the downfall of esports, we are already dead.
On January 16 2013 12:12 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Destiny is saying on Reddit that Slasher and other Journalists in esports shouldn't be strong-armed into being publicists for marketing organizations. They're Journalists, not publicists.
But it doesn't matter -- TotalBiscuit won't be listening. He's spouting his populist non-sense again. He does it a lot, and it's a good tactic, but it's ultimately useless. I'd dislike him if he wasn't popular.
There's no hyphen in nonsense.
If you're going to hijack my quote in an attempt to be funny at least have the decency not to butcher your punctuation.
I had to sprawl this thread, but you said you wished the community would not devolve into always throwing around inane insults around and have a real conversation, yet you post this nonsense. When did grammar nazi's ever contribute to a debate?
On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
They do whatever is in their best interest. They don't bite the hand that feeds them. If they want to be successful, anyway.
And yes, when it comes to the major news media and reporting on the government, banks, etc., this is a downfall because the investigative side tends to be brushed aside since it results in loss of access. That is a problem when trying to keep the government in check. It is not a problem when we're talking about an e-sports organization announcing a player signing.
As many of my journalism professors have said, "if you're not getting sued, you're not a good journalist"
So do you think that e-sports journalists should leak as much info as they possibly can, even if it results in the downfall of e-sports, thus eliminating their job? Is that a legitimate goal? Not saying that's happening or will happen, but that is the logical conclusion of this way of thinking.
if Slasher reporting Snute is joining TL a few days before TL does is the downfall of esports, we are already dead.
Pretty much, I'd worry more about "esports" attracting new players and sponsors.
On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
You can't blame either side. Slasher leaks stuff and Alex Garfield has to deal with the aftermath of him leaking stuff. Alex has the right to be pissed and Slasher doesn't have to listen. Neither side is right and shouldn't pretend the other side is at fault.
But Slasher can't be pissed if he is not given access or is shut of out some important story or members of a team stop talking to him because he likes to leak stuff. You can only burn bridges so often.
On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
You can't blame either said. Slasher leaks stuff and Alex Garfield has to deal with the aftermath of him leaking stuff. Alex has the right to be pissed and Slasher doesn't have to listen.
But Slasher can't be pissed if he is not given access or is shut of out some important story or members of a team stop talking to him because he likes to leak stuff. You can only burn bridges so often.
On January 16 2013 12:12 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Destiny is saying on Reddit that Slasher and other Journalists in esports shouldn't be strong-armed into being publicists for marketing organizations. They're Journalists, not publicists.
But it doesn't matter -- TotalBiscuit won't be listening. He's spouting his populist non-sense again. He does it a lot, and it's a good tactic, but it's ultimately useless. I'd dislike him if he wasn't popular.
There's no hyphen in nonsense.
If you're going to hijack my quote in an attempt to be funny at least have the decency not to butcher your punctuation.
I have a question regarding youtube that you talk about a lot. You talk about your subscriber base having a 750k-1m reach, but you must know that a lot of people subscribe to youtubes, stop watching and never bother to unsub. Your vids still get a lot of views, but do not get 700k-1m views.
How would you answer a potential sponsor to what your current reach is? I've seen some youtubes with 400-500k subs, but they only get 10-15k views on vids today because a lot of those subs are just built up from being on youtube for years. A ton of people no longer watch that person. If that person went to a sponsor saying he had a 400-500k people reach, would the sponsor believe him or look at his current views and laugh at that notion?
On January 16 2013 12:12 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Destiny is saying on Reddit that Slasher and other Journalists in esports shouldn't be strong-armed into being publicists for marketing organizations. They're Journalists, not publicists.
But it doesn't matter -- TotalBiscuit won't be listening. He's spouting his populist non-sense again. He does it a lot, and it's a good tactic, but it's ultimately useless. I'd dislike him if he wasn't popular.
There's no hyphen in nonsense.
If you're going to hijack my quote in an attempt to be funny at least have the decency not to butcher your punctuation.
I had to sprawl this thread, but you said you wished the community would not devolve into always throwing around inane insults around and have a real conversation, yet you post this nonsense. When did grammar nazi's ever contribute to a debate?
granted the post he is talking about was nonsensical in the first place
On January 16 2013 13:48 HotGore wrote: I had to sprawl this thread, but you said you wished the community would not devolve into always throwing around inane insults around and have a real conversation, yet you post this nonsense. When did grammar nazi's ever contribute to a debate?
I'm not sure if you noticed but I'm fairly sure a 20 minute discussion on the show was more than my fair share of "contributing to the debate". If people post stupid shit however I am going to call them on it.
Also there's no apostrophe in nazis.
I have a question regarding youtube that you talk about a lot. You talk about your subscriber base having a 750k-1m reach, but you must know that a lot of people subscribe to youtubes, stop watching and never bother to unsub. Your vids still get a lot of views, but do not get 700k-1m views.
How would you answer a potential sponsor to what your current reach is? I've seen some youtubes with 400-500k subs, but they only get 10-15k views on vids today because a lot of those subs are just built up from being on youtube for years. A ton of people no longer watch that person. If that person went to a sponsor saying he had a 400-500k people reach, would the sponsor believe him or look at his current views and laugh at that notion?
Detailed analytics provided directly from the Google backend including unique viewers, daily views and all manner of other stuff. If you offer me a decent amount of sponsorship money you can check it out yourself in Axioms sponsorship deck
On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
You can't blame either side. Slasher leaks stuff and Alex Garfield has to deal with the aftermath of him leaking stuff. Alex has the right to be pissed and Slasher doesn't have to listen. Neither side is right and shouldn't pretend the other side is at fault.
But Slasher can't be pissed if he is not given access or is shut of out some important story or members of a team stop talking to him because he likes to leak stuff. You can only burn bridges so often.
If Slasher relies on breaking stories early, then what is going to happen once people stop giving him information? It's undeniable at this point that Slasher is pissing people off with what he's doing. It's only a matter of time before he has few or no sources left. Then what? This road he's traveling down is self-defeating.
On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
You can't blame either side. Slasher leaks stuff and Alex Garfield has to deal with the aftermath of him leaking stuff. Alex has the right to be pissed and Slasher doesn't have to listen. Neither side is right and shouldn't pretend the other side is at fault.
But Slasher can't be pissed if he is not given access or is shut of out some important story or members of a team stop talking to him because he likes to leak stuff. You can only burn bridges so often.
No bridges to burn, keep your sources protected and he'll be fine. Also if people like the information it gives teams and players publicity.
On January 16 2013 12:12 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Destiny is saying on Reddit that Slasher and other Journalists in esports shouldn't be strong-armed into being publicists for marketing organizations. They're Journalists, not publicists.
But it doesn't matter -- TotalBiscuit won't be listening. He's spouting his populist non-sense again. He does it a lot, and it's a good tactic, but it's ultimately useless. I'd dislike him if he wasn't popular.
There's no hyphen in nonsense.
If you're going to hijack my quote in an attempt to be funny at least have the decency not to butcher your punctuation.
I have a question regarding youtube that you talk about a lot. You talk about your subscriber base having a 750k-1m reach, but you must know that a lot of people subscribe to youtubes, stop watching and never bother to unsub. Your vids still get a lot of views, but do not get 700k-1m views.
How would you answer a potential sponsor to what your current reach is? I've seen some youtubes with 650k subs, but they only get 10-15k views on vids today because a lot of those subs are just built up from being on youtube for years. A ton of people no longer watch that person. If that person went to a sponsor saying he had a 600k people reach, would the sponsor believe him or look at his current views and laugh at that notion?
TB knows his stuff and how many active subs he has and juicing your numbers on youtube with inactive subs is a bad idea. Most people in the industry are likely very very good at cutting through that bullshit and it only makes the content maker look bad.
Also, I am looking at a video he put up one day ago and it has over 141,000 views. One that was put up three days ago had 300,000. That's a lot of people watching stuff. Over the span of 5 days well over 1 million people have watched videos he has made.
On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
They do whatever is in their best interest. They don't bite the hand that feeds them. If they want to be successful, anyway.
So you want slasher to be an EG puppet and only announce things when they give him the go ahead? How is that different from just being an EG employee then?
It's called cooperating for the best interests of all parties.
Ah so you call biased reporting co-operating. Gotcha. Glad the rest of the world doesn't think like you.
What's biased about not spoiling an announcement, adding no information whatsoever? If they were hiding something, yeah sure then report it. No one is hiding anything.
On January 16 2013 13:18 JazzJackrabbit wrote: I'm sorry, but Alex came across as a complete asshole. He could have easily articulated his point without acting like such a dick.
If someone was actively hurting your business for no reason other than attention you'd be pissed too.
no reason other than attention? seriously? lol.
Is that even disputable? I like Slasher. But that's what he's doing when he leaks these things on twitter. It doesn;t serve any purpose other than to say "hey look at me I know things before they are official" and bring views to Gamespot which they would get anyway if he cooperated with the teams
he's a reporter. what exactly do you think they do?
They do whatever is in their best interest. They don't bite the hand that feeds them. If they want to be successful, anyway.
And yes, when it comes to the major news media and reporting on the government, banks, etc., this is a downfall because the investigative side tends to be brushed aside since it results in loss of access. That is a problem when trying to keep the government in check. It is not a problem when we're talking about an e-sports organization announcing a player signing.
As many of my journalism professors have said, "if you're not getting sued, you're not a good journalist"
So do you think that e-sports journalists should leak as much info as they possibly can, even if it results in the downfall of e-sports, thus eliminating their job? Is that a legitimate goal? Not saying that's happening or will happen, but that is the logical conclusion of this way of thinking.
if Slasher reporting Snute is joining TL a few days before TL does is the downfall of esports, we are already dead.
EPT
