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On June 08 2011 09:49 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 09:46 wei2coolman wrote:On June 08 2011 09:41 Makotoo wrote:
LOL iNcontrol saying rape on stream after whining about it for hours and hours on WoC and SotG, so ridiculous. He didn't whine about it, he said something along the lines of "as the game becomes bigger and bigger (in public view), words such as rape should be phased out to be more and more public friendly" uh If I said the word ever it would only be in the context of "don't say this" wtf
yeah it was wheat who actually said it and then quickly switched it out.
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Idra and Machine looked like a cute couple there.
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It is always an exquisite pleasure to experience the amiable discourse between the hosts and the impeccably mannered Goatlust.
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On June 08 2011 09:46 flodeskum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 09:36 GwSC wrote:On June 08 2011 09:33 flodeskum wrote:On June 08 2011 09:25 Serpico wrote:On June 08 2011 09:24 StUfF wrote:On June 08 2011 09:20 GwSC wrote:On June 08 2011 09:19 dpL wrote:On June 08 2011 09:12 GwSC wrote:
Incontrol is certainly right that Idra made a bunch of mistakes and could have played it better.
On the other hand, Idra is correct that its ridiculous that MC was able to so easily come back and win.
A Zerg could never ever come back from being down 2-3 bases against a decent Protoss. Protoss can't make 10 probes at a time. Hydras can't blink. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. What exactly is your point? Are you saying you think it is ok for Zerg to be so fragile that they can be up 3 bases and lose because of one mistake? My point is just that it is not right for T and P to be so much more forgiving in terms of making little mistakes like that. All races will lose if their "one mistake" costs them their whole army. Resources/bases don't mean anything if you don't convert them to actual advantages. ...having a better economy is an actual advantage. Execution is what you're talking about really, it's not like top zergs bank 5k/5k off 5 bases and think they dont need to attack, they just feel there should be greater margin of error. But he lost his army and his economy at the same time and he was also teching and hadn't seen a return for that investment. It was the worst possible time to lose that army. It wasn't an easy comeback by any means. Those DTs were absolutely clutch. IMO idra wouldn't make a similar mistake against a terran because he is so comfortable in his zvt. And I don't think MC would have pulled that game back against losira, or any top zerg that is comfortable in his zvp. Again, the problem isn't the fact that he lost due to losing his army and economy. Its that fact that this was able to happen so easily when he was up more than 2 bases, and at even supply. If you saw a Zerg win while being down that many bases against a Protoss because he built 5 infestors, Protoss players would riot. Actually I'm not sure if it was even supply, I think Idra may have been ahead in supply if I remember right. He said he was maxed at the time earlier. They were both maxed, but MC had a lot more army value. And Idra did have 9 or 10 corruptors floating around.
Idra was up two bases but failed to convert that to any reasonable advantage.
-- Subpar unit composition. Hydra/Corruptor/Infestors vs Blink Stalker/DT
-- Worse tech. No Hive tech
-- Upgrades were pretty even. 3/0 vs 2/2.
-- Army value/size was in MC's favour.
-- Failure to remax/stall out for remax
-- Failure to defend harass
-- Failure to micro infestors/overseers/corruptors.
It was not "easy" for MC to come back.
Idra played a very terrible game and pretty much deserved to lose that.
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incontrol did naniwa bring that rotten fish for u to eat
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omg djwheat so awesome! I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves the monster nitrous drinks, they're so delicious! drinking a "black ice" one now, it's really good. As unhealthy as it is I've always been drinking a monster before going to the gym.
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This was the first show I've gotten to watch.. holy shit Geoff is funny!
DJWheat: "Idra, do you prefer jelly or jam?"
Idra: "I prefer jam."
Geoff: "Don't know the difference."
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there is no difference between jam and jelly right?
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On June 08 2011 09:49 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 09:46 wei2coolman wrote:On June 08 2011 09:41 Makotoo wrote:
LOL iNcontrol saying rape on stream after whining about it for hours and hours on WoC and SotG, so ridiculous. He didn't whine about it, he said something along the lines of "as the game becomes bigger and bigger (in public view), words such as rape should be phased out to be more and more public friendly" uh If I said the word ever it would only be in the context of "don't say this" wtf
Must of misunderstood what you were saying in sotg to destiny. sorry 
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The difference between jelly and jam is that you can't jelly your cock down a girls throat.
User was banned for this post.
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On June 08 2011 09:59 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 09:46 flodeskum wrote:On June 08 2011 09:36 GwSC wrote:On June 08 2011 09:33 flodeskum wrote:On June 08 2011 09:25 Serpico wrote:On June 08 2011 09:24 StUfF wrote:On June 08 2011 09:20 GwSC wrote:On June 08 2011 09:19 dpL wrote:On June 08 2011 09:12 GwSC wrote:
Incontrol is certainly right that Idra made a bunch of mistakes and could have played it better.
On the other hand, Idra is correct that its ridiculous that MC was able to so easily come back and win.
A Zerg could never ever come back from being down 2-3 bases against a decent Protoss. Protoss can't make 10 probes at a time. Hydras can't blink. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. What exactly is your point? Are you saying you think it is ok for Zerg to be so fragile that they can be up 3 bases and lose because of one mistake? My point is just that it is not right for T and P to be so much more forgiving in terms of making little mistakes like that. All races will lose if their "one mistake" costs them their whole army. Resources/bases don't mean anything if you don't convert them to actual advantages. ...having a better economy is an actual advantage. Execution is what you're talking about really, it's not like top zergs bank 5k/5k off 5 bases and think they dont need to attack, they just feel there should be greater margin of error. But he lost his army and his economy at the same time and he was also teching and hadn't seen a return for that investment. It was the worst possible time to lose that army. It wasn't an easy comeback by any means. Those DTs were absolutely clutch. IMO idra wouldn't make a similar mistake against a terran because he is so comfortable in his zvt. And I don't think MC would have pulled that game back against losira, or any top zerg that is comfortable in his zvp. Again, the problem isn't the fact that he lost due to losing his army and economy. Its that fact that this was able to happen so easily when he was up more than 2 bases, and at even supply. If you saw a Zerg win while being down that many bases against a Protoss because he built 5 infestors, Protoss players would riot. Actually I'm not sure if it was even supply, I think Idra may have been ahead in supply if I remember right. He said he was maxed at the time earlier. They were both maxed, but MC had a lot more army value. And Idra did have 9 or 10 corruptors floating around. Idra was up two bases but failed to convert that to any reasonable advantage. -- Subpar unit composition. Hydra/Corruptor/Infestors vs Blink Stalker/DT -- Worse tech. No Hive tech -- Upgrades were pretty even. 3/0 vs 2/2. -- Army value/size was in MC's favour. -- Failure to remax/stall out for remax -- Failure to defend harass -- Failure to micro infestors/overseers/corruptors. It was not "easy" for MC to come back. Idra played a very terrible game and pretty much deserved to lose that.
There is no better unit composition than hydra/infestor vs blink stalkers unless you throw some zerglings in.
Hive tech was pointless. MC was on T1 tech essentially, besides the 3-0 upgrade, but that's trivial
2-2 is far better than 3-0 in a hydra vs stalker scenario
IdrA was maxed, MC was like 170-180, army values were similar.
He remaxed, but the stalkers were pushing closer and picking off small groups of units before they could be balled again
The harass didn't matter, he lost his whole hydra infestor army and so many stalkers were left over that mc was going to push into his production and hatcheries.
He got fungals off, his overseer got sniped, and corruption was insignificant with only 7 corruptors.
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first time viewing, and I love it. Especially since I can't have iNcontrol on SotG now lol.
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I rang up today. Got through.
I was the guy who corrected Geoff about the burrow hotkey and asked "Which 2 units for each race would you bring back from BW?"
:D Sorry if you guys didn't understand me. In all honesty, I was taken back that I was on it and my heart was pounding like a racehorse galloping down a field.
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On June 08 2011 10:09 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 09:59 StUfF wrote:On June 08 2011 09:46 flodeskum wrote:On June 08 2011 09:36 GwSC wrote:On June 08 2011 09:33 flodeskum wrote:On June 08 2011 09:25 Serpico wrote:On June 08 2011 09:24 StUfF wrote:On June 08 2011 09:20 GwSC wrote:On June 08 2011 09:19 dpL wrote:On June 08 2011 09:12 GwSC wrote:
Incontrol is certainly right that Idra made a bunch of mistakes and could have played it better.
On the other hand, Idra is correct that its ridiculous that MC was able to so easily come back and win.
A Zerg could never ever come back from being down 2-3 bases against a decent Protoss. Protoss can't make 10 probes at a time. Hydras can't blink. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. What exactly is your point? Are you saying you think it is ok for Zerg to be so fragile that they can be up 3 bases and lose because of one mistake? My point is just that it is not right for T and P to be so much more forgiving in terms of making little mistakes like that. All races will lose if their "one mistake" costs them their whole army. Resources/bases don't mean anything if you don't convert them to actual advantages. ...having a better economy is an actual advantage. Execution is what you're talking about really, it's not like top zergs bank 5k/5k off 5 bases and think they dont need to attack, they just feel there should be greater margin of error. But he lost his army and his economy at the same time and he was also teching and hadn't seen a return for that investment. It was the worst possible time to lose that army. It wasn't an easy comeback by any means. Those DTs were absolutely clutch. IMO idra wouldn't make a similar mistake against a terran because he is so comfortable in his zvt. And I don't think MC would have pulled that game back against losira, or any top zerg that is comfortable in his zvp. Again, the problem isn't the fact that he lost due to losing his army and economy. Its that fact that this was able to happen so easily when he was up more than 2 bases, and at even supply. If you saw a Zerg win while being down that many bases against a Protoss because he built 5 infestors, Protoss players would riot. Actually I'm not sure if it was even supply, I think Idra may have been ahead in supply if I remember right. He said he was maxed at the time earlier. They were both maxed, but MC had a lot more army value. And Idra did have 9 or 10 corruptors floating around. Idra was up two bases but failed to convert that to any reasonable advantage. -- Subpar unit composition. Hydra/Corruptor/Infestors vs Blink Stalker/DT -- Worse tech. No Hive tech -- Upgrades were pretty even. 3/0 vs 2/2. -- Army value/size was in MC's favour. -- Failure to remax/stall out for remax -- Failure to defend harass -- Failure to micro infestors/overseers/corruptors. It was not "easy" for MC to come back. Idra played a very terrible game and pretty much deserved to lose that. There is no better unit composition than hydra/infestor vs blink stalkers unless you throw some zerglings in. Hive tech was pointless. MC was on T1 tech essentially, besides the 3-0 upgrade, but that's trivial 2-2 is far better than 3-0 in a hydra vs stalker scenario IdrA was maxed, MC was like 170-180, army values were similar. He remaxed, but the stalkers were pushing closer and picking off small groups of units before they could be balled again The harass didn't matter, he lost his whole hydra infestor army and so many stalkers were left over that mc was going to push into his production and hatcheries. He got fungals off, his overseer got sniped, and corruption was insignificant with only 7 corruptors.
he lost because he had 7 corruptors against no air units and let 4 dts kill his entire army without getting an overseer or fungaling and killing them. if he hadn't done these things he would have won that engagement (and the game ) EASILY, i don't really see how this can even be a point of discussion.
it would be like a protoss player running out into the middle of the map and losing a bunch of units to 4 cloaked banshees because he didn't make an observer and then saying pvt is unfair because terrans can make a comeback if they do that
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On June 08 2011 10:07 Gumbot wrote:
there is no difference between jam and jelly right?
I always thought that jam had chunks of fruit in it and stuff, while jelly is more of a spreading thing.
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On June 08 2011 10:19 MechKing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 10:07 Gumbot wrote:
there is no difference between jam and jelly right? I always thought that jam had chunks of fruit in it and stuff, while jelly is more of a spreading thing.
The main difference is that jam has an extra technical ingredient in it, though the end result is that jelly is closer to syrup and jam is closer to peanut butter.
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On June 08 2011 10:09 Mailing wrote:
There is no better unit composition than hydra/infestor vs blink stalkers unless you throw some zerglings in.
Hive tech was pointless. MC was on T1 tech essentially, besides the 3-0 upgrade, but that's trivial
And also 4 DTs running around unhindered through the mass of hydras. Those didn't hurt either. A couple of overseers and a better decision on where to engage would have made the biggest difference. I don't think Idra's infestors were able to reach MC's stalkers with FG.
Stalkers with Blink are not "essentially" T1, Blink is a serious upgrade that steps them up into T2 (assuming Toss even has tiers).
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On June 08 2011 09:59 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 09:46 flodeskum wrote:On June 08 2011 09:36 GwSC wrote:On June 08 2011 09:33 flodeskum wrote:On June 08 2011 09:25 Serpico wrote:On June 08 2011 09:24 StUfF wrote:On June 08 2011 09:20 GwSC wrote:On June 08 2011 09:19 dpL wrote:On June 08 2011 09:12 GwSC wrote:
Incontrol is certainly right that Idra made a bunch of mistakes and could have played it better.
On the other hand, Idra is correct that its ridiculous that MC was able to so easily come back and win.
A Zerg could never ever come back from being down 2-3 bases against a decent Protoss. Protoss can't make 10 probes at a time. Hydras can't blink. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. What exactly is your point? Are you saying you think it is ok for Zerg to be so fragile that they can be up 3 bases and lose because of one mistake? My point is just that it is not right for T and P to be so much more forgiving in terms of making little mistakes like that. All races will lose if their "one mistake" costs them their whole army. Resources/bases don't mean anything if you don't convert them to actual advantages. ...having a better economy is an actual advantage. Execution is what you're talking about really, it's not like top zergs bank 5k/5k off 5 bases and think they dont need to attack, they just feel there should be greater margin of error. But he lost his army and his economy at the same time and he was also teching and hadn't seen a return for that investment. It was the worst possible time to lose that army. It wasn't an easy comeback by any means. Those DTs were absolutely clutch. IMO idra wouldn't make a similar mistake against a terran because he is so comfortable in his zvt. And I don't think MC would have pulled that game back against losira, or any top zerg that is comfortable in his zvp. Again, the problem isn't the fact that he lost due to losing his army and economy. Its that fact that this was able to happen so easily when he was up more than 2 bases, and at even supply. If you saw a Zerg win while being down that many bases against a Protoss because he built 5 infestors, Protoss players would riot. Actually I'm not sure if it was even supply, I think Idra may have been ahead in supply if I remember right. He said he was maxed at the time earlier. They were both maxed, but MC had a lot more army value. And Idra did have 9 or 10 corruptors floating around. Idra was up two bases but failed to convert that to any reasonable advantage. -- Subpar unit composition. Hydra/Corruptor/Infestors vs Blink Stalker/DT -- Worse tech. No Hive tech -- Upgrades were pretty even. 3/0 vs 2/2. -- Army value/size was in MC's favour. -- Failure to remax/stall out for remax -- Failure to defend harass -- Failure to micro infestors/overseers/corruptors. It was not "easy" for MC to come back. Idra played a very terrible game and pretty much deserved to lose that.
I strongly agree. Balance has nothing to do with why Idra lost.
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United States15275 Posts
On June 08 2011 10:07 Gumbot wrote:
there is no difference between jam and jelly right?
Jam is worlds better. Marmalade particularly.
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On June 08 2011 10:07 Gumbot wrote:
there is no difference between jam and jelly right?
Jam is a paste. (picture... tomato sauce)
Jelly is a... Jelly? (picture, Jello)
So yes, there is a difference.
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693
EPT
