EPTThe effectiveness of 1 warp prism is unbelievable, the thing doesn't even need to have a unit in it when it leaves, just warp in and load up close to the drop zone, no units traveling around the map. Warp prisms do not need a buff, they need to be experimented with.
Why Protoss Drops Are Rare (Warp Prism Analysis) - Page 11
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
The effectiveness of 1 warp prism is unbelievable, the thing doesn't even need to have a unit in it when it leaves, just warp in and load up close to the drop zone, no units traveling around the map. Warp prisms do not need a buff, they need to be experimented with. | ||
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m!DniGhT
Germany34 Posts
So Basically the warpprism have just some ued strategies: Warp in Harass (since every toss wants to warp in DTs in the opponents mainbase  ) Zealboming on Banes (even if its not that effectiv like the old BW Zealbombs on spidermines, and 2 Immo drops against Tech structures. All these are so havely countered from the normal game plan, because every MU the opponent builds AA in response to an Robotics just for the imense fear of Colossi. So the Opponent have a big ball of AA and then the KNowlodge of the Drops or harassment after first tries, their is no longer Use for the Warp prisms at all. The Secondory abillity isnt so valueable like gettin supply or healing Bio balls. SO I thought about it as giving the Warp Prisms the old Abillity of the BW Shield Battery. Another REason was that their is no Healing Unit for Toss in the Game while Terran have the Medivac and Zergs have transfuse. But I could imagine that the Shield charging would be a valueable Skill . Let me hear what you think | ||
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Datum
United States371 Posts
TLDR: Low-tier protoss units suck for drops (?) | ||
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smallsacks
Australia6 Posts
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Joementum
787 Posts
On May 03 2011 13:06 Datum wrote: One problem I've had is simply that the cheap units (the ones I feel the most comfortable loading up into the fragile Warp Prism to fly away) aren't very good for drops. Terrans can drop Marines and Marauders, which are both ranged units. Zergs can drop highly mobile zerglings, or hydras and roaches, which are ranged units. Protoss can drop mostly stalkers and zealots, however. I find that 4 zealots spend too long trying to squeeze through a mineral line to reach harvesters to do any significant damage. 4 stalkers aren't really effective without a zealot to tank damage, and 1 zealot and 3 stalkers won't really be able to do too much damage to a mineral line. That being said, there are other uses for drops, but I feel that overall, low-tier protoss units are not condusive to drops. TLDR: Low-tier protoss units suck for drops (?) 4 zealots > 8 Zerglings in a worker line. Why the complaining? The only thing Zerg has on the Zealots is the movement speed, but Charge can help. HT/DT are also better than anything any other race has. Use them more often. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
The problem is using them midgame. There's really nothing cost efficient unit to warp in as scvs/drones can be pulled easily and anything can clean tier 1 toss units up easily. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On May 03 2011 13:13 Joementum wrote: 4 zealots > 8 Zerglings in a worker line. Why the complaining? The only thing Zerg has on the Zealots is the movement speed, but Charge can help. 4 zealots < 4 roaches, or banelings, or hydras, or infestors, or one ultra, or pretty much anything else. Only thing protoss has to drop that'd be better than a zealot would be DT's (EXPENSIVE) which are better spread out for various reasons, or archons, which aren't actually too bad to drop to be honest. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11111 Posts
On May 03 2011 12:48 TheFrankOne wrote: Personally I've found that as the robo bay is coming online is the perfect time to build one warp prism, I go obs, bay, obs, prism; in all three match-ups fairly often. This saves gas to start collosus and range while keeping another production structure busy, a win-win. How many gateway units do you have/ are you constantly building stalkers from your gates then? I feel like I generally rush out that first collosi just in case of any early agro or is this just a scouted response thing. Sorry for such vague questions >> need to play more. | ||
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BenKen
United States860 Posts
There really isn't a unit that synergies (hate that word) well with the warp prism, which is probably by design. The devs were probably afraid of the power of the warp-in ability and figured that was enough to make the unit stand on it's own. I understand the decision, but Stork's god micro with two shuttles full of reavers never ever slowing down, or Reach going for a bulldog on some poor terran are really cool things that don't have counterparts in SC2 protoss play yet. To echo what others have said, everything Protoss has, outside of DTs, is bad in small numbers generally. Warp Prisms probably don't need a buff to see more drop play, they just need something worth putting into them. | ||
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insta
216 Posts
Why do I say underrated ? It's the mobile Pylon that it provides. Warpprisms maybe revolutionize the meta-game for a 3gate-robo tactic. I'm really excited to see how this goes on. Btw, big shoutout to White-Ra, the man who delivers us his finest special tactics combined with his refined mechanics and micro. Thanks buddy, we love you  | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On May 03 2011 06:51 Mashmed wrote: If you upgrade your warp prism it is the fastest of the 3 supportunits and even before upgrade the Warp prism and the medivac is still faster than an upgraded overlord. Something you also failed to consider is the fact that overlords require 2 upgrades to be useful. So the warp prism is not as useless as you make it out to be. Considering that overlord drops cost 200/200 why can't a protoss invest in an extra robotics to focus on warp prisms? Also, the fact that the warp prism scales with the amount of gateways you have I would say is rather awesome. I would gladly swap my amount of overlords for the chance to morph my overlords into nydus networks for free. Zerg dropships don't cost food. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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KillerSOS
United States4207 Posts
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Joementum
787 Posts
So? Zerg also has the most population inefficient army, so that would just screw Zerg if they did cost food. Either way, Overlords need to be replaced if lost. Medevacs/Warp Prisms don't. | ||
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pyaar
United States423 Posts
All of these points could be used against the Shuttle from SC1. SC2 robo units are nowhere near as important as SC1 robo units (across all matchups). That is, whereas the colossus is huge in PvX, reavers had more of a niche role, and observers don't eat up all the remaining robo production time. Since colossi are so crucial, it's such a sacrifice to invest so much into a fragile transport. I'd go so far as to say that we don't see more prisms because colossi are so gamebreaking. The colossus, I think, is a problematic unit that needs to be examined. It's almost not a choice at all to get colossi, and the only thing interesting about it is that it can be hit by air attacks. | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
The warp prism its self is fine and a pretty good unit. TL&DR: Its the units your dropping thats the problem unless your looking at mid to late game then yea you have really good ones. | ||
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Empire385
United States2 Posts
Basically if you catch a Terran/Zerg dropship before it unloads it'll cost him about 500/200 (Medivac w/ 4 marauders) If you catch a Protoss dropship before it unloads... its 200/0. And no military units actually inside the warp prism. You can also warp in 10+ units on a warp prism if needed, though if you're warping in that many units it's probably a bad thing. (Gateway units aren't that effective by themselves) | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On May 03 2011 13:36 Joementum wrote: So? Zerg also has the most population inefficient army, so that would just screw Zerg if they did cost food. Either way, Overlords need to be replaced if lost. Medevacs/Warp Prisms don't. hes suggesting building several warp prisms.. its just plain stupid. The secondary purpose of the warp prism doesn't lend itself to using several together at the same time. You can build one and elevator your guys, but i cant see how building serveral would EVER make sense for a protoss. I'm not even saying zerg dropships arent perfectly balanced. I'm saying the upgrade converts all these no food units into dropships... terran's drop ship heals... protoss' makes a pylon, why do you need many at 2 food? | ||
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Disquiet
Australia628 Posts
On May 03 2011 13:47 oZii wrote: Im gonna with the fact that Protoss Tier 1 units are just bad for the kind of harassment you want to do that the pay-off is minimal. You have to catch them completely off guard. You can say the same about the other units harass also. When that warning sounds saying we are under attack zerglings, and stimmed marines are way more effective on the mineral line. Also you can scoop up speedlings and marines quick to retreat dropping zealots is more is just a suicide mission for those zealots. The warp prism its self is fine and a pretty good unit. TL&DR: Its the units your dropping thats the problem unless your looking at mid to late game then yea you have really good ones. This. The reason you don't see protoss drops is that their gateway units are not effective in small amounts. they attack or move too slow to kill workers quickly, unlike marines and zerglings, so they are not good for harassment. Colossus or immortal drops can work but its generally too risky given they are so expensive. And doom dropping is not really possible as protoss because getting enough warp prisms to hold your entire army is too expensive, and they have no other uses. Unlike terran and zerg who will usually have enough medivacs and overlords anyway. The only really useful unit to drop is the HT, but HT warp-ins were much more popular when amulet was available. The biggest use for warpprism is probably in a 3+ base situation, using it as a mobile pylon for warping in chargelots or DTs to unguarded expos. | ||
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
Pretty sexy play. | ||
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