On April 30 2011 05:36 JerKy wrote: Wait, I'm confused If I click once, does that equal one feedback? So if I spam click feedback, I could potentially get rid of all the ghosts?
Yes and yeah.
Only if 1) you have more than enough feedbacks for all the ghosts and 2) you never hit the same ghost twice and 3) none of your high templars die.
On April 30 2011 06:51 artanis2 wrote:
On April 30 2011 06:50 windsupernova wrote:
On April 30 2011 06:48 artanis2 wrote:
On April 30 2011 06:44 Lobo2me wrote:
On April 30 2011 06:39 artanis2 wrote:
On April 30 2011 06:05 ihavetofartosis wrote:
On April 30 2011 00:50 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: I decided to test manual click v minimap click and this was the result
Yeah I think we can all agree that this is lame. Takes away any neat micro, anyone can spam-click a clump of units.
Thanks for this, it is now quite obvious that you do not have to be precise with your aim on the minimap.
I have no idea how he managed that, I have to be pixel perfect.
I was clicking on the middle marine on the minimap and no feedbacks went off. It's not something that's useful for feedbacking, since just clicking on the unit will be faster and more accurate. Go into a unit tester and try it yourself.
Maybe it is enough that you click on a unit near the ghost? Try surrounding the ghosts with marines. (Sorry I can't, I'm at work.)
It has to be on the unit, the reason it works its because people are clicking like mad men over the comparatively small area the Bioball takes on the map.Add in Medevacs and Banshees and its likely that you will feedback them all.
This is completely wrong. Watch the video again. He does _not_ click on a single ghost on the minimap.
Yes he did, the ghosts minimap dots are just gigantic. Until he comes back with a similar demonstration on a larger map (Tal'Darim, for example), as he said he would, that video is completely inaccurate.
No, he didn't. He was clicking on the bottom left of the group, and ghosts on the right and top of the ball were getting targeted. There is some auto-targeting going on here.
Ohh, I see what happened now. He artificially gave himself vision that doesn't actually appear in his view. His early clicks are actually in areas that register as "having vision" and allows the feedback via the minimap despite him not being able to see the units there, higher up in the ball. Those early clicks result in the weird feedbacks since they queue up the shots on the ghost.
I played with it a bit and the minimap targeting is easy to examine. As soon as feedback is selected, the cursor will flash when it is held near an enemy dot on the minimap, if that unit has energy. The radius seems to be about 3-4 unit widths. I was able to kill a ball of 20 ghosts by clicking on the same exact point 20 times.
Since some people don't seem to understand this still, I'll clarify again:
1) This doesn't auto-target.
2) You DO need to be pixel-perfect on the minimap.
3) The reason it lets you feedback more is because there's no penalty to missing a feedback, so you can keep spamming click on the minimap until you hit stuff, and if there are a lot of ghosts clumped up, you're more likely to hit them.
4) The cursor changes color on the minimap when you're over something you can target, so if you just keep spamming click whenever the cursor is white, you'll hit the ghosts.
5) If the ghosts are within really close proximity, they may share some "minimap pixels" meaning you can hit more than one from clicking the same spot (but you'd still need to click for each one.)
On April 30 2011 06:13 Lunchador wrote: You can do the same thing with queen larva inject via minimap. And let me tell you, that method is highly inefficient because you'll miss the hatchery square so many times and get frustrated. Now, imagine aiming for those red pixels. This won't become big, I'm sure.
Just think about this. A T and a P army are about to fight, they are waiting for a good position. During this time, the P selects all his templars, spam f click on the terran blob. 4 templars starts heading toward the T ball, you wait a little then engage. Easy life.
You warp in templars that immediately...
I don't know how this is such a big deal. It's almost as if protoss could punish terran for not spreading out their casters. O.o
On April 30 2011 13:36 artanis2 wrote: I played with it a bit and the minimap targeting is easy to examine. As soon as feedback is selected, the cursor will flash when it is held near an enemy dot on the minimap, if that unit has energy. The radius seems to be about 3-4 unit widths. I was able to kill a ball of 20 ghosts by clicking on the same exact point 20 times.
What map are you testing it on? I had to hit it pixel perfect, just like with hatchery inject.
On April 30 2011 13:36 artanis2 wrote: I played with it a bit and the minimap targeting is easy to examine. As soon as feedback is selected, the cursor will flash when it is held near an enemy dot on the minimap, if that unit has energy. The radius seems to be about 3-4 unit widths. I was able to kill a ball of 20 ghosts by clicking on the same exact point 20 times.
What map are you testing it on? I had to hit it pixel perfect, just like with hatchery inject.
Yeah this, I tried it on maps as big as Tal'Darim and I had to be pretty darn close to get the Feedback.
If he can manage that then all power to him, because that is still freaking impressive to hit that area so precisely as well as putting yourself in a position to just gain a glimpse of the Terran army.
I'm trying it over and over again on Tal'Darim, and it is very hard to do--you have to hit pretty much on the dot, if you miss the first click then there is almost no point since you could have just done better by manual casting
Yeah, I tried again on Tal'Darim and Metal and it had to be exact, and even clicking the dot on the minimap wasn't enough, it had to be a very specific location within the dot. However on Scrap and other small maps the area you can click is actually larger than the dot. With 1680x1050 res the area I could target a ghost was around 5x5 pixels.
Anyway in all cases it appears that clicking the minimap has no benefit over spotting ghosts by their energy bars.
Not very useful on large maps, since you need to click exactly on the dot. Also, if you use this method you can often overkill since you can't really tell which unit you are feedbacking.
I've used this to chrono nexus and injects when I off-race as Z. You have to be pretty accurate, I doubt it can be used mid battle. It's easy for injects and chrono because the nexus/hatch are huge on the minimap.
IMO Feedback needs a chance to "misfire" like most other spells (Snipe is the one exception, but it has another limitations) so you HAVE TO target it on the battlefield. Misfiring could be "cast in on any unit, even ones without energy". The purple bars for energy are a good indicator to help aiming anyways, but autoaiming via minimap is ridiculous (does it autoaim if you click close to a targetable unit on the battlefield but not on top of it?).
On May 01 2011 14:41 Rabiator wrote: IMO Feedback needs a chance to "misfire" like most other spells (Snipe is the one exception, but it has another limitations) so you HAVE TO target it on the battlefield. Misfiring could be "cast in on any unit, even ones without energy". The purple bars for energy are a good indicator to help aiming anyways, but autoaiming via minimap is ridiculous (does it autoaim if you click close to a targetable unit on the battlefield but not on top of it?).
If you think about it, it can misfire by hitting the same unit twice when you use this technique.
In big games like 3v3/4v4 this is horrible.. big maps = easier to target units on the minimap, which means it's easily spammable to target all the units in someone's army, which makes it extremely powerful.
Couple this with the thor change from the last patch (they have energy again) and it's amazingly powerful vs. Terran in late game.
On May 12 2011 00:47 TenSafeFrogs wrote: In big games like 3v3/4v4 this is horrible.. big maps = easier to target units on the minimap, which means it's easily spammable to target all the units in someone's army, which makes it extremely powerful.
Couple this with the thor change from the last patch (they have energy again) and it's amazingly powerful vs. Terran in late game.
1) Big maps make it harder. 2) If you had trouble feedbacking thors outside of the minimap, then something else is wrong with you.
This is very hard to do. It was nice when you could biund scroll and kill ultras and broodlords Sucks that ghosts are a bit weaker now. BUT dont forget that ghosts have like the best armor type with Archon except that Ghost are also biological wich only is hurt by archons no biggy.
Anyways, I have tried this ALOT now in regular games and lost so much because of it,. I have tried the most different tequnies like hold fire is good and hold position always no matter what tequnieq you are using.
Anyways the only usefull thing I can find by this is binding like 0 9 8 to hightemplar few zealots group that defends main base etc. Then if ur lucky or pro maybe you can get the medivac but mostly its easier to just doubletap and feedback normally cuz Medivac are LARGE.
High Templar + Ghosts are very smallk and hard to snipe/feedback. Which is very good that its hard.But its harder for terran overall we can all agree on that but imo 10+ ghosts make ur army so good.
Problem alot of terrans do, including me before recently. Most ppl just charge in with emp hornyness xD every 10 ghost in one group and they just die after emp.
Spluit them up as u split ur army just use 2max 3ghosts to go emp snipe forward Very important. You cant afford to loose 10 ghosts, they are sooooo expensive since terran has no gas dump. 200 minerals and 100 gas is kinda the ghost of a collosus lol. For etrran that extra 200 gas from protoss is no bigdeal so I would say its like 1.8 of the cost of a collosus.
But damn ghosts are awesome. Tips for newer players. MAKE GHOSTS as soon as u have good enoguh vikings *never overkill vikings. you CAN overkill production of ghosts. The hard part is that ur bio is SO small!
How you deal with this IMO is to just stim ur units bait storm and back off. while using ur vikings fireing hopefully in an ark from storm destruction, and ghosts a few going to emp the rest stimmed and ghosts stand in the back until 1-2 collosus is gone and panic storms are used mostly. then go in with ur small BIO army and just reck the protoss.
Ghosts are so underused! You cant overmake them as soon as u dont have to many vikings and no bio.
Basicaly use more ghosts unless ur trading very very very good multitasking midgame. MOstly u need ghosts even with SCV upull 3 ghosts is awesome.
Summery: Only good reason for this imo is feedback on medivacs and that is a big deal but, its not that easy. as I said i have tried both races and done this in ALOT of real games. With ghosts u just loose most of themn, and guys really STOP charge and have 10 ghosts in the front they will die and u. If they surviove then u can just get more bio and keep fighting and compoete with 20 warpgates.
Ghosts and Templars are way to small for it to be effective enough to use minimap trick. Larva inject and use on medivac works better because they are larger. (medivac is tstill same size on minimap but still)
Soirry for bumping but ive read the thread and no one seems to have really tested this in REAL games for a longer time
EPT
Sucks that ghosts are a bit weaker now. BUT dont forget that ghosts have like the best armor type with Archon except that Ghost are also biological wich only is hurt by archons no biggy.
