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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On April 28 2011 23:51 Kare wrote: His answers made no sense at all to me. Seriously... Sounds like he does not know that it is even possible to micro units. The only micro is blink micro and cloak "micro" LOL. Just wow.. If they won't put some really cool micro abilites for all races (zerg especially) and micro intensive units in HoS I am not going to waste my money on that expansion for sure. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
On April 29 2011 00:04 gnutz wrote: please play some games of BW ^^ Uh, I do. | ||
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Rantech
Chile527 Posts
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
On April 29 2011 00:04 Alpina wrote: Seriously... Sounds like he does not know that it is even possible to micro units. The only micro is blink micro and cloak "micro" LOL. Just wow.. If they won't put some really cool micro abilites for all races (zerg especially) and micro intensive units in HoS I am not going to waste my money on that expansion for sure. This whole interview is pretty much lost in translation. That's why the answers aren't making much sense. | ||
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vojnik
Macedonia923 Posts
On April 29 2011 00:01 Eury wrote: Rob Pardo is still at Blizzard. What the hell are you talking about? well he is VP of game design would have been better if he was more directly involved in sc2 or in charge off | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
As for unit counters, he's right in the sense that SC2 unit compositions tend to be more diverse than in BW, where several matchup were dominated by 2-3 different kinds of units on each side. On the other hand, I disagree with him about micro--I think the SC2 micro ceiling is much higher than we've currently seen, but at the moment its not as good as BW (though it is developing nicely). At this point, I think the focus should be much more on players developing new strats, and on developing better and better maps, than it should be on balance changes. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 29 2011 00:03 Kipsate wrote: So about the statistical data being used, does anyone know what sample size they use?Diamond and up?Platinum and up?Masters and up? They look at all levels because they want all levels to be at least reasonably balanced. Would be bad for the game if new players couldn't win if they picked the wrong race. In the past when they mentioned these stats it was usually diamond, dunno about now with masters/gm existing. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
Well guess what, nearly every encounter in BW was like Marine vs Baneling. Terrible answers. | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 29 2011 00:09 MilesTeg wrote: I wonder where they get their balance data though? Since the matchmaking system pretty much ensures you'll have around a 50% record unless you are the ultimate gosu, if zerg has a problem against T and P it wouldn't really show in any data. Yes it would. Why do people keep saying this? It's not complicated :/ The 50% is your overall record, you don't have seperate MMR for each matchup :/ | ||
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getSome[703]
United States753 Posts
Dustin : That is actually not the case. This situation where one unit counters another unit is not as serious as it was in Starcraft 1. Let's say we have a templar fighting a zergling, and the templar always loses. That's a situation where we really see one unit countering another unit. As of now, the balance between unit-counters and micro is better than in Starcraft 1. I just lost faith in Starcraft 2 ever becoming as good a game as Brood War | ||
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Robellicose
England245 Posts
I'm willing to bet that multiplayer SC1 on the SC2 engine would lead to swarm and deathball tactics, with harass thrown in - just like SC2! | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Yes it would. Why do people keep saying this? It's not complicated :/ The 50% is your overall record, you don't have seperate MMR for each matchup :/ This. Especially in Grandmasters, where MMR breaks down (at a certain point, if you're good enough, there's no way the system can stabilize you at 50% win percentage because it will run out of people good enough to beat you--but this only occurs in grandmaster), cross-race matchup data is actually pretty useful, if enough games are played--which due to the nature of ladder, they are. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On April 29 2011 00:07 awesomoecalypse wrote: I agree with him 100% on balance. Everyone was complaining like crazy about Protoss being OP--but Protoss are getting their asses kicked all over the place right now in GSL (both Code S and Code A). That's been true throughout the entire history of the game. Terran were considered OP at the start, but a Terran didn't win a GSL until 4 months in--while Zerg, the "UP" race, won the first 2 GSLs, and has looked very capable so far in the current one. Balance is damn good. It's really funny to read guys like you who explain all balance with GSLs. Terrans won much more tourneys than any other race from the release date, but they didn't win GSL for 4 months so yeah it explains everything. Lol did you even believe what you just said? | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On April 29 2011 00:09 MilesTeg wrote: I wonder where they get their balance data though? Since the matchmaking system pretty much ensures you'll have around a 50% record unless you are the ultimate gosu, if zerg has a problem against T and P it wouldn't really show in any data. It's 50% out of all matches, disregarding matchups. For example, lets say a T player plays 30 games. 10 TvTs. 10 TvZs. 10 TvPs. He wins 5 out of his 10 TvTs. He only wins 2 out of his 10 TvZs. He wins 8 out of his 10 TvPs. Overall, his win/loss ratio against everything is going to be 50%. However, he only achieves this ratio because of his high TvP ratio balancing out his low TvZ ratio. As someone said before, imbalance in a certain matchup can be deduced by seeing many people having higher win rates in that matchup yet having lower win rates in others. | ||
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sdrawkcab_
Norway113 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 28 2011 22:57 Weirdkid wrote:In the Grandmaster Leagues and Master Leagues of the various battlenet regions in the world, the win ratios of all 3 races are between 50-55%. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On April 29 2011 00:12 Robellicose wrote: Why does everyone complain about balance and unit countering and then compare SC2 to SC1? Their unit interfaces are completely different - multiple building select, large hotkey groups, smartcasting and better pathing all lead to the superior player being better able to press the advantage where necessary. The reason battles were more spread out in SC1 was because the players lacked the tools necessary to keep their armies tight and well controlled (with the exception of air). I'm willing to bet that multiplayer SC1 on the SC2 engine would lead to swarm and deathball tactics, with harass thrown in - just like SC2! The thing is, "swarm/deathball" is actually really, really nonoptimal in a lot of cases. Against Toss AOE, or an Infestor-heavy Zerg composition since the FG buff, or a well-positioned tank line...the last thing you want to do is clump in a huge ball. This is a big part of what makes me think we've barely scratched the surface of SC2 micro. We still have pro level players doing stuff like putting a bioball in one control group, flying their vikings right over them, and then directly engaging a Colossus-heavy force. Marine-baneling is the start of advanced SC2 micro, but it is far from the end. In a few years, people will be expertly spreading units against all kinds of AOE, Protoss will be individually blinking Stalkers out of danger (ala Blink rushing) only they'll be doing it in massive army engagements, Terrans will be expertly manuevering Hellions to set up perfect shots (the way they do in mineral harass) only they'll be doing it in army engagements while controlling the rest of their force as well... We've already seen all of these things, here and there. But no one is doing them consistently, no one has come close to mastering them. The players we think of as good now will seem laughable in a few years when people have begun to really figure out the game. | ||
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GxZ
United States375 Posts
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
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