EPTInterview with SC2 Lead Designer Dustin Browder - Page 13
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Chessz
United States644 Posts
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Hollis
United States505 Posts
On April 28 2011 22:57 Weirdkid wrote:In the Grandmaster Leagues and Master Leagues of the various battlenet regions in the world, the win ratios of all 3 races are between 50-55%. .... Does he realize that his game's matchmaking system basically guarantees that will be true regardless of any balance issues? That the game can be cripplingly imbalanced and the system will simply put Zerg players of very high skill against Terran and Protoss players of low skill and everyone will have around 50% win/loss? The relevant statistics he should be exploring is race representation in the top 200, and in tournament semi-finals and finals. And last I heard, Zerg was grievously underperforming, consistently. | ||
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
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xza
Singapore1600 Posts
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
Hydra response = Colussuss. Spire response = Gateway army and a Spire takes too long to build you can never recover properly with larva injects if you pick this route. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On May 01 2011 05:09 Olsson wrote: Dustin if you read this. Please look up what a stargate first against Zerg does for a Zerg. Three pheonixes and a voidray and youre all good. It forces the zerg to withdraw its mapcontrol and it picks off its queens and also forces 4 spore crawlers at each base to effectively defend. This force strategy is way to powerful and zerg cant respond effectively in any way. Hydra response = Colussuss. Spire response = Gateway army and a Spire takes too long to build you can never recover properly with larva injects if you pick this route. You can roach all-in stargate openings | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On May 01 2011 04:33 Hollis wrote: .... Does he realize that his game's matchmaking system basically guarantees that will be true regardless of any balance issues? That the game can be cripplingly imbalanced and the system will simply put Zerg players of very high skill against Terran and Protoss players of low skill and everyone will have around 50% win/loss? The relevant statistics he should be exploring is race representation in the top 200, and in tournament semi-finals and finals. And last I heard, Zerg was grievously underperforming, consistently. They aren't though, look at some of the more thorough statistics threads floating around. Protoss actually has the lowest win % across the grandmasters, but nearly even with zerg. Terrans are winning about 2% higher rate than protoss and zerg in those leagues. There are more protoss PLAYERS but its proportional to the amount of people that play the race. In fact, Zerg is the most disproportionate with them having represenation in the higher leagues that is much higher % than the % of people who play the race. The tournament results are extremely even as well when you factor in the % of people that choose each race and GSL May round of 8 is probably the most balanced composition yet. Its so cute when zerg players all think the players they get matched up against at their MMR have to be worse players than them. Some guy in my masters division was telling me he was going to switch races beginning season 2, did a bunch of a custom games at the end of season 1 to go from Zerg to Protoss because he thought it was going to be so easy. I checked his profile a couple weeks in and he was 1 win 23 losses. I checked it again the following week and he had been demoted to diamond. All the races are hard and its really easy to take that for granted when you've been studying the same race for an entire year. | ||
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luftrofl
United States27 Posts
" Within the games themselves, we also see the advantage keep swinging from one player to another. This shows that the state of Starcraft 2 is not that one sided." Not sure what games he's watching, but usually whenever someone has a clear advantage, they keep it until they win. | ||
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LastMan
90 Posts
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Leavzou
France156 Posts
He must play proto..drake | ||
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hmmm...
632 Posts
you can already tell that sc2's game designers are totally out of touch with what makes a rts a spectator sport and more importantly, a complex, balanced rts. sc2 should not be an esports until it is a better game that rewards skilled players better and punishes less skilled people more. but people will ride the sc2 bandwagon and convince themselves that sc2 is a true esports platform. well, i think this interview speaks for itself with regards to whether sc2 is able to become a game that even remotely matches sc1 in its esports sportability. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
On May 01 2011 04:33 Hollis wrote: .... Does he realize that his game's matchmaking system basically guarantees that will be true regardless of any balance issues? That the game can be cripplingly imbalanced and the system will simply put Zerg players of very high skill against Terran and Protoss players of low skill and everyone will have around 50% win/loss? Nah, they don't realize that. You're so smart that you've been able to think of this while all those Blizzard people don't understand it. If you watch the Blizzcon interviews, they've explained that they got a mathematician who's in charge of adjusting the stats to remove the MM system bias. They even showed the exact formula they use. | ||
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Paradice
New Zealand431 Posts
On May 01 2011 05:01 xza wrote: aaaaand thats what you get when you have someone from C&C to balance sc2 And that's the type of comment you get when someone doesn't know the difference between game design and game balance. Browder's job is to think up and/or choose from a whole lot of cool ideas. His job was essentially done when the game hit retail. David Kim's job is to make those cool ideas fair for everyone. His job is ongoing, that's why you have patches with timings, costs, and numbers being continually adjusted. Asking Dustin Browder to comment on balance is like asking the company chef to comment on the art style. You'll get an interesting answer, but if you read too much into it it's more your failure than theirs. | ||
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RajaF
Canada530 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 01 2011 04:13 RajaF wrote: And I don't see why games just like that are not posible in SC2. The reaver holding off a stream of hydra would basically be 3 sentries + 1 colossus frying off legions of zerg, and the second game is a stalker and probes holding off a bunch of marines. What's funny is that those games are barely 3 years old. So you are comparing the skill level of a 9 year old game at the time with the skill level of a one year old game. There will be plenty of games just like those to in SC2 soon enough, then I hope that all the whining can stop, but I doubt it. If I ever see a player control a lone stalker and get more than 24 kills and defeat an scv marine all in into victory, I will quit SC2 forever. | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
On May 01 2011 14:24 sluggaslamoo wrote: If I ever see a player control a lone stalker and get more than 24 kills and defeat an scv marine all in into victory, I will quit SC2 forever. Better start looking into what you'll do after SC2 ^_~ | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
my goal in life is now to work in blizzard and work my way up and eventually get in the same team as dustin browder then i'm going to slap him in a design meeting and make him wake the fuck up | ||
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
On May 01 2011 14:24 sluggaslamoo wrote: If I ever see a player control a lone stalker and get more than 24 kills and defeat an scv marine all in into victory, I will quit SC2 forever. If I make a youtube video of me against my friends in this situation and myself winning with the hero stalker, will you quit? | ||
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