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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On May 04 2011 23:27 ridonkulous wrote:
whats wrong with that lol, blizzard seconds are just made up time units which could be called anything but they are not real SECONDS, i converted them so theres no confusion.
As for chronoboost u have a valid point here toss will have one cb less but i never claimed its only time which changed.
All timings should be discussed in in-game terms. Mixing them doesn't help anyone and just leads to confusion.
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On May 04 2011 23:27 ridonkulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:14 Yaotzin wrote:On May 04 2011 23:10 ridonkulous wrote:On May 04 2011 22:58 RoachyRoach wrote:On May 04 2011 22:55 Noocta wrote:
Soo.. with the Infestor nerf, the Thor change, the new change to warpgate being only 20s longer (which is nothing with chronoboost) , all the gateway build time decresed and the major buff to archon
This patch is now a huge " let's buff protoss " or did i miss something ? 20s is 20s, its not nothing, chrono or no chrono. toss dont have unlimited chrono. it changes the opener by 20s no matter which way u look at it. chrono 2x more on wg? its that means not as many probes. and wg chrono is always constant anyway(for wg rushes)...toss cant just pull 2x more chrono out of thier ass. its 20sec "in-game" seconds which equalls to 15s real seconds with chronoboost 4wg rush will be ~10 seconds later ps. im very sad that blizzard want tvp to be bio based i realy hate the current state of this MU and the fact i cant play mech might cause i will switch races  I love how people convert SC time to realtime in an attempt to make a larger time appear smaller than it is. You don't magically get more chrono btw, you don't have enough to chrono again when the old WP tech finished. whats wrong with that lol, blizzard seconds are just made up time units which could be called anything but they are not real SECONDS, i converted them so theres no confusion. As for chronoboost u have a valid point here toss will have one cb less but i never claimed its only time which changed.
What confusion? No one uses realtime seconds when talking about SC timings because they are completely irrelevant.
The CB point was showing that it really is 20s, because there's no CB to bring it down. So 20s is 20s, 4gate becomes 20s later, period.
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On May 04 2011 23:31 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:27 ridonkulous wrote:On May 04 2011 23:14 Yaotzin wrote:On May 04 2011 23:10 ridonkulous wrote:On May 04 2011 22:58 RoachyRoach wrote:On May 04 2011 22:55 Noocta wrote:
Soo.. with the Infestor nerf, the Thor change, the new change to warpgate being only 20s longer (which is nothing with chronoboost) , all the gateway build time decresed and the major buff to archon
This patch is now a huge " let's buff protoss " or did i miss something ? 20s is 20s, its not nothing, chrono or no chrono. toss dont have unlimited chrono. it changes the opener by 20s no matter which way u look at it. chrono 2x more on wg? its that means not as many probes. and wg chrono is always constant anyway(for wg rushes)...toss cant just pull 2x more chrono out of thier ass. its 20sec "in-game" seconds which equalls to 15s real seconds with chronoboost 4wg rush will be ~10 seconds later ps. im very sad that blizzard want tvp to be bio based i realy hate the current state of this MU and the fact i cant play mech might cause i will switch races I love how people convert SC time to realtime in an attempt to make a larger time appear smaller than it is. You don't magically get more chrono btw, you don't have enough to chrono again when the old WP tech finished. whats wrong with that lol, blizzard seconds are just made up time units which could be called anything but they are not real SECONDS, i converted them so theres no confusion. As for chronoboost u have a valid point here toss will have one cb less but i never claimed its only time which changed. What confusion? No one uses realtime seconds when talking about SC timings because they are completely irrelevant. The CB point was showing that it really is 20s, because there's no CB to bring it down. So 20s is 20s, 4gate becomes 20s later, period.
Still, i don't really think protoss need some buff because 4gate is 20s later. As it a PvP concern but other buff are PvX concern.
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doesn't the mm push with 1 thor to stop ff still work?
that push is still pretty potent imo
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On May 04 2011 20:57 Gulzt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 20:41 Telcontar wrote:
Please don't say Thors will still be viable. Can you even recall a pro ever using a mass thor strategy when they had energy and required 150 of it to use strike cannon? NO and there's a good reason for that. You can theorise all you want about getting ghosts to emp your own thors but without the actual ability to use strike cannons against immortals and colossi and the fact that having to get ghosts will be a requirement whenever you go mass thor which will eat into your upgrades as well as viking production will mean the strat will be virtually dead.
I'm still hoping that Blizzard will come to their senses and not implement this change in the actual patch. Have all your thors destroy a rock before you engage might do the trick too. But to the point, I think the reason blizzard implemented this is to stimulate the usage of the strike cannon. In a way you are forced to upgrade the strike cannon this way, and maybe people figure out some good usage for it. If that won't be the case it's probably reverted in a later patch.
LOL
Now that's funny!
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On May 04 2011 23:32 Huragius wrote:
Hmm, Thor's having energy might completely remove mech play in TvP. I hope that doesn't happen.
I don't think you need to worry. Teching to high templars from robo tech(the usual counter to mech play) takes time. You still have a timing window to completely own any Toss player.
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On May 04 2011 23:34 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:31 Yaotzin wrote:On May 04 2011 23:27 ridonkulous wrote:On May 04 2011 23:14 Yaotzin wrote:On May 04 2011 23:10 ridonkulous wrote:On May 04 2011 22:58 RoachyRoach wrote:On May 04 2011 22:55 Noocta wrote:
Soo.. with the Infestor nerf, the Thor change, the new change to warpgate being only 20s longer (which is nothing with chronoboost) , all the gateway build time decresed and the major buff to archon
This patch is now a huge " let's buff protoss " or did i miss something ? 20s is 20s, its not nothing, chrono or no chrono. toss dont have unlimited chrono. it changes the opener by 20s no matter which way u look at it. chrono 2x more on wg? its that means not as many probes. and wg chrono is always constant anyway(for wg rushes)...toss cant just pull 2x more chrono out of thier ass. its 20sec "in-game" seconds which equalls to 15s real seconds with chronoboost 4wg rush will be ~10 seconds later ps. im very sad that blizzard want tvp to be bio based i realy hate the current state of this MU and the fact i cant play mech might cause i will switch races I love how people convert SC time to realtime in an attempt to make a larger time appear smaller than it is. You don't magically get more chrono btw, you don't have enough to chrono again when the old WP tech finished. whats wrong with that lol, blizzard seconds are just made up time units which could be called anything but they are not real SECONDS, i converted them so theres no confusion. As for chronoboost u have a valid point here toss will have one cb less but i never claimed its only time which changed. What confusion? No one uses realtime seconds when talking about SC timings because they are completely irrelevant. The CB point was showing that it really is 20s, because there's no CB to bring it down. So 20s is 20s, 4gate becomes 20s later, period. Still, i don't really think protoss need some buff because 4gate is 20s later. As it a PvP concern but other buff are PvX concern.
I really don't think Blizzard think like this. I think they buffed the archon to encourage the citadel tech line, and because archons are a really underused (read:shit) unit;not because they nerfed toss on warpgates.
Remember this is the test server, they're er, testing. Trying out a new archon, new warpgate timings etc. If things look good they go into a patch, if not, not.
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The thors with energy thing is pretty bad for terran tho. Im toss and even I can see this as pretty weird.
Thors are now the only spellcaster that have NO way to use thier energy until an upgrade is researched. I think it would be fair if thors either started with the research or had some way of using energy before the research..but blizzzard isnt about to implement totally new abilities so it is looking pretty bleak.
Perhaps a viable "what-if" would be what if thors had an ability that used energy to jetpack for 5s or something. Still be slow as fuck but would allow thors to hop onto highground or traverse windy terrain easier.
haha, even im thinking "stfu newb, this isnt the blizzard forums" after typing this.
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On May 04 2011 23:34 Noocta wrote:Still, i don't really think protoss need some buff because 4gate is 20s later. As it a PvP concern but other buff are PvX concern.
Warp Gate tech is 20 seconds later, not just for specific builds like 4 gates. Protoss do use Warp Gates in other builds.
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Woot, they reverted the Zealot build-time buff!
Long live the 7-pool!!!
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On May 04 2011 23:40 RoachyRoach wrote:Thors are now the only spellcaster that have NO way to use thier energy until an upgrade is researched. I think it would be fair if thors either started with the research or had some way of using energy before the research..but blizzzard isnt about to implement totally new abilities so it is looking pretty bleak
Banshees can't use their energy until cloak is researched.
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On May 04 2011 23:45 Raygun wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:40 RoachyRoach wrote:Thors are now the only spellcaster that have NO way to use thier energy until an upgrade is researched. I think it would be fair if thors either started with the research or had some way of using energy before the research..but blizzzard isnt about to implement totally new abilities so it is looking pretty bleak Banshees can't use their energy until cloak is researched.
touche
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On May 04 2011 23:41 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:36 Traven wrote:On May 04 2011 23:32 Huragius wrote:
Hmm, Thor's having energy might completely remove mech play in TvP. I hope that doesn't happen. I don't think you need to worry. Teching to high templars from robo tech(the usual counter to mech play) takes time. You still have a timing window to completely own any Toss player. Actually, you don't. If you are going for thor oriented mech style, protoss will have HT/Collo/DT/Immortals mix in time (Not in huge numbers, duh). And tanks are already pretty fucking bad against protoss, unless in some timing pushes on few maps and still, very situational.
I agree with this, but only if it gets to late game. The only time I ever see Thors used effectively are the stupid early marine, SCV, Thor pushes with 250 strike cannon.
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On May 04 2011 23:39 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:34 Noocta wrote:On May 04 2011 23:31 Yaotzin wrote:On May 04 2011 23:27 ridonkulous wrote:On May 04 2011 23:14 Yaotzin wrote:On May 04 2011 23:10 ridonkulous wrote:On May 04 2011 22:58 RoachyRoach wrote:On May 04 2011 22:55 Noocta wrote:
Soo.. with the Infestor nerf, the Thor change, the new change to warpgate being only 20s longer (which is nothing with chronoboost) , all the gateway build time decresed and the major buff to archon
This patch is now a huge " let's buff protoss " or did i miss something ? 20s is 20s, its not nothing, chrono or no chrono. toss dont have unlimited chrono. it changes the opener by 20s no matter which way u look at it. chrono 2x more on wg? its that means not as many probes. and wg chrono is always constant anyway(for wg rushes)...toss cant just pull 2x more chrono out of thier ass. its 20sec "in-game" seconds which equalls to 15s real seconds with chronoboost 4wg rush will be ~10 seconds later ps. im very sad that blizzard want tvp to be bio based i realy hate the current state of this MU and the fact i cant play mech might cause i will switch races I love how people convert SC time to realtime in an attempt to make a larger time appear smaller than it is. You don't magically get more chrono btw, you don't have enough to chrono again when the old WP tech finished. whats wrong with that lol, blizzard seconds are just made up time units which could be called anything but they are not real SECONDS, i converted them so theres no confusion. As for chronoboost u have a valid point here toss will have one cb less but i never claimed its only time which changed. What confusion? No one uses realtime seconds when talking about SC timings because they are completely irrelevant. The CB point was showing that it really is 20s, because there's no CB to bring it down. So 20s is 20s, 4gate becomes 20s later, period. Still, i don't really think protoss need some buff because 4gate is 20s later. As it a PvP concern but other buff are PvX concern. I really don't think Blizzard think like this. I think they buffed the archon to encourage the citadel tech line, and because archons are a really underused (read:shit) unit;not because they nerfed toss on warpgates. Remember this is the test server, they're er, testing. Trying out a new archon, new warpgate timings etc. If things look good they go into a patch, if not, not.
Might be this, but i have quite a lot of experience of blizzard balancing through the " nerf here so buff here logic".
I could understand a buff to the Citadel tech tree if they did start to make robo less amazingly good against everything.
Archons buff are nice, they give Protoss more options. But to be honest, i wish they'll start to give new option to other races that don't have that many yet. In fact, they're even telling terran " you can't mech against protoss" at the same time that " you can templar tech better".
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On May 04 2011 23:45 Raygun wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:40 RoachyRoach wrote:Thors are now the only spellcaster that have NO way to use thier energy until an upgrade is researched. I think it would be fair if thors either started with the research or had some way of using energy before the research..but blizzzard isnt about to implement totally new abilities so it is looking pretty bleak Banshees can't use their energy until cloak is researched.
You forgetting my favorite unit, the Hyperion, the Behemoth, the Fusion nuclear shot of goodness, the Yamato Cannon, which is probably a reference to that Space Cruiser Yamato movie or something. Which is actually a batllecruiser. Which is the Battlecruiser
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I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.
I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.
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On May 04 2011 23:49 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 23:45 Raygun wrote:On May 04 2011 23:40 RoachyRoach wrote:Thors are now the only spellcaster that have NO way to use thier energy until an upgrade is researched. I think it would be fair if thors either started with the research or had some way of using energy before the research..but blizzzard isnt about to implement totally new abilities so it is looking pretty bleak Banshees can't use their energy until cloak is researched. You forgetting my favorite unit, the Hyperion, the Behemoth, the Fusion nuclear shot of goodness, the Yamato Cannon, which is probably a reference to that Space Cruiser Yamato movie or something. Which is actually a batllecruiser. Which is the Battlecruiser
Ok, so im dead wrong, didnt think ^^
Gawd terran is so feedbackable.
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On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.
I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.
you know I kinda like Goliaths
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EPT
