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Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 169

Forum Index > SC2 General
4401 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 167 168 169 170 171 221 Next
Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
Tonttu
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland606 Posts
May 04 2011 14:54 GMT
#3361
Starting energy of 50 and strike cannons need 150 energy to use.. Yeah.. sure..
Well archon buffs.. hope we'll see them more
Naama, the #1 Conductor! | Slayers, Fnatic and Mouz | Naama, MMA and ForGG |
rmAmnesiac
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom185 Posts
May 04 2011 14:55 GMT
#3362
On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.

I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.


would you care to explain your post? i'm afraid 'i don't know how to counter them' isn't really a response if that's what you were going to go for.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
May 04 2011 14:55 GMT
#3363
I don't understand why they reverted the zealot AND stalker build time decrease. The zealot build time decrease was silly, that i understand. I don't think it was as bad as people were claiming, but it wasn't necessary. But the stalker build time decrease being reverted, combined with the warp gate research only being 20 seconds slower instead of 40 seconds slower?

I don't think 4gate is going to even touched by this patch now, its going to be just as effective in PvP as it was before.
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
RoachyRoach
Profile Joined February 2011
81 Posts
May 04 2011 14:55 GMT
#3364
YES goliaths should come back.

Buff the SHIT out of the thor and make it like the mothership. Where u can only have 1.
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
May 04 2011 14:55 GMT
#3365
On May 04 2011 23:52 Blasterion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.

I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.

you know I kinda like Goliaths


Thors and Raves out , Sciene Vessel and Goliath in = Happy Terran . Those two Units are underused for good reasons , they aren't all that great.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
May 04 2011 14:57 GMT
#3366
On May 04 2011 23:55 Dhalphir wrote:
I don't understand why they reverted the zealot AND stalker build time decrease. The zealot build time decrease was silly, that i understand. I don't think it was as bad as people were claiming, but it wasn't necessary. But the stalker build time decrease being reverted, combined with the warp gate research only being 20 seconds slower instead of 40 seconds slower?

I don't think 4gate is going to even touched by this patch now, its going to be just as effective in PvP as it was before.

purely speculation here,
Probably some sort of early gate way pressure that'll eat zergs alive if they 15 hatch or or something (since bunkers are pretty much the solution to every type of early pressure). If you chrono boost 3 zealots and 2 stalkers or something (idk not like I play toss), it'll be difficult for people to stop it I assume. like I said pure speculation
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
RoachyRoach
Profile Joined February 2011
81 Posts
May 04 2011 14:57 GMT
#3367
On May 04 2011 23:55 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 23:52 Blasterion wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.

I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.

you know I kinda like Goliaths


Thors and Raves out , Sciene Vessel and Goliath in = Happy Terran . Those two Units are underused for good reasons , they aren't all that great.


except the new Sci vessle is hella OP ^^
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
May 04 2011 14:58 GMT
#3368
On May 04 2011 23:57 RoachyRoach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 23:55 s3rp wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:52 Blasterion wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.

I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.

you know I kinda like Goliaths


Thors and Raves out , Sciene Vessel and Goliath in = Happy Terran . Those two Units are underused for good reasons , they aren't all that great.


except the new Sci vessle is hella OP ^^


Well it doesn't need to have the Repair Ability . Give it something else ^^
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
May 04 2011 14:59 GMT
#3369
On May 04 2011 23:57 RoachyRoach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 23:55 s3rp wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:52 Blasterion wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.

I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.

you know I kinda like Goliaths


Thors and Raves out , Sciene Vessel and Goliath in = Happy Terran . Those two Units are underused for good reasons , they aren't all that great.


except the new Sci vessle is hella OP ^^

SciV asks you, WTF is this repair crap? what? Resources to heal Mech? are you from the Stone Age? It's the age of Nanobots baby
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
May 04 2011 15:00 GMT
#3370
On May 04 2011 23:58 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 23:57 RoachyRoach wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:55 s3rp wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:52 Blasterion wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.

I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.

you know I kinda like Goliaths


Thors and Raves out , Sciene Vessel and Goliath in = Happy Terran . Those two Units are underused for good reasons , they aren't all that great.


except the new Sci vessle is hella OP ^^


Well it doesn't need to have the Repair Ability . Give it something else ^^

Welcome back Defense Matrix!!!!!
oh in other topic

How smart is a SCV pilot. They repair SCVs to Tanks, Battlecruiser to Colossus Motherships, Are they that intellectual that they can fix Alien Psionic Technology?
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 15:01:28
May 04 2011 15:00 GMT
#3371
On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.

The colossus is a thousand times worse in this regard. I truly do not see what makes them think the thor requires nerfing, yet the colossus is perfectly fine.

I make thors almost exclusively in the lategame of TvP, and they are never an immediate key to victory, rather a strong end-game unit that allows me trade armies with the protoss in an efficient manner. My thors + bio against a gateway/robo mix would always depend on micro, positioning, EMP's etc. Thor builds in general are extremely weak in the early-midgame, and once you lose too many, it's extremely difficult to get back into the game due to their extreme cost and build time. When you lose an engagement a smart protoss will keep attacking relentlessly, and only clutch mass repair might keep you in the game, yet the damage is already done.

There is no doubt in my mind that protoss players would have found extremely efficient counters to thor-based armies, should they became more commonplace. Immortals are 4 food where thors are 6, yet its a problem when they get owned in equal numbers? Blizzard really seems to have dropped the ball with this unit, that much I agree with.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
May 04 2011 15:01 GMT
#3372
On May 04 2011 23:49 Noocta wrote:
Might be this, but i have quite a lot of experience of blizzard balancing through the " nerf here so buff here logic".

Well obviously there's some degree of that - there has to be really. I just mean I highly doubt they go "ok so we nerfed warp gates, what can we buff to make up for it?". They looked at 2 issues - 4gate being too prominent, and archons sucking, and changed things.

I could understand a buff to the Citadel tech tree if they did start to make robo less amazingly good against everything.

It's not amazingly good...

Archons buff are nice, they give Protoss more options. But to be honest, i wish they'll start to give new option to other races that don't have that many yet. In fact, they're even telling terran " you can't mech against protoss" at the same time that " you can templar tech better".

They aren't saying you can't use mech. Ghost buff was a big help for mech play. Templar tech being > bio and it being buffed should also encourage mech play.
dartoo
Profile Joined May 2010
India2889 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 15:01:56
May 04 2011 15:01 GMT
#3373
@ science vessel repair: Protoss need the mobile shield battery yo, and with an upgrade, it can power buildings too :p

Anyway, the new archon attack animation looks cool
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
May 04 2011 15:02 GMT
#3374
On May 05 2011 00:01 dartoo wrote:
^^ Protoss need the mobile shield battery yo, and with an upgrade, it can power buildings too :p

Anyway, the new archon attack animation looks cool

oh I want to see the new Archon so bad! even if I am terran!

Warp Prism Upgrade incoming =0
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
May 04 2011 15:03 GMT
#3375
On May 04 2011 23:55 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 23:52 Blasterion wrote:
On May 04 2011 23:49 flodeskum wrote:
I think the thor change is reasonable. Thors are just a stupid unit and don't really belong in a game like sc2.

I really don't want to see mech in tvp if said mech involves mostly thors and a few helions. I'd much rather see changes to tanks and marauders to make mech more viable.

you know I kinda like Goliaths


Thors and Raves out , Sciene Vessel and Goliath in = Happy Terran . Those two Units are underused for good reasons , they aren't all that great.

Vikings took over goliath's role of high range anti air. Goliaths would be completely pretty much totally unused if put in the game.

Science vessel would be absurdly imba in SC2.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
May 04 2011 15:07 GMT
#3376
On May 05 2011 00:01 Yaotzin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 23:49 Noocta wrote:
Might be this, but i have quite a lot of experience of blizzard balancing through the " nerf here so buff here logic".

Well obviously there's some degree of that - there has to be really. I just mean I highly doubt they go "ok so we nerfed warp gates, what can we buff to make up for it?". They looked at 2 issues - 4gate being too prominent, and archons sucking, and changed things.
Show nested quote +

I could understand a buff to the Citadel tech tree if they did start to make robo less amazingly good against everything.

It's not amazingly good...
Show nested quote +

Archons buff are nice, they give Protoss more options. But to be honest, i wish they'll start to give new option to other races that don't have that many yet. In fact, they're even telling terran " you can't mech against protoss" at the same time that " you can templar tech better".

They aren't saying you can't use mech. Ghost buff was a big help for mech play. Templar tech being > bio and it being buffed should also encourage mech play.


I won't go into a quote war, it's not really the place for that kind of thing.
But sometimes i feel you need a change something and only that thing. I like how they're making Archons better because amulet is not here anymore. The logic is fine. But blizzard feel necessary to compensate when they don't need to.

The ghost thing follow by the Thor nerf is the same thing. They wanted to make Ghost easier to get while doing a heavy gas strategy, but then they feel they have to nerf this strategy ( mech here ) to compensate.

I don't like the logic behind that. :/
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Furycrab
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada456 Posts
May 04 2011 15:08 GMT
#3377
So 250mm is going back to a really annoying upgrade to get... and now we are back to Thors that you can nuke for 200 damage for 50 energy.

PvT next patch is going to be changing alot.
Too tired to come up with something witty.
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
May 04 2011 15:10 GMT
#3378
On May 04 2011 20:44 dump wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:37 Gigaudas wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:34 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:29 Dingobloo wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:08 freetgy wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:04 Falcor wrote:
so what ur saying is army balls clashing into each other is a good thing?

Id prefer my infestors to be faster then my army so i can micro manage my fragile and expensive units easier thank you


they have the biggest range anyway, don't get that reason for Micro.
While you had to micro pre this patch, now you can play alot more usual flank a-move style with good positioning since there speed matches the rest of the army (i.e. Hydras)
That the whole reason this it is considered a buff. No need for baby sitting anymore.


We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use.

We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever.


Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts.

You're missing the point.

For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment.


How is it easier, the Infestors are already slower than most popular Zerg units?


What?

Roach is 2.25, as is hydra. Infestor was 2.5, and now it's 2.25.

Roach is 3.0 with lair tech. I don't think that constitutes "most". Zerglings are off the charts and need to be managed separately anyway, so they don't even count.

The point is that there are more units traveling at the same speed now -- not that infestor is faster or slower than another.


Everything but Hydras doesn't constitute most?
I
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
May 04 2011 15:11 GMT
#3379
On May 05 2011 00:07 Noocta wrote:
The ghost thing follow by the Thor nerf is the same thing. They wanted to make Ghost easier to get while doing a heavy gas strategy, but then they feel they have to nerf this strategy ( mech here ) to compensate.

I don't like the logic behind that. :/

You're assuming they're doing it like that though. Maybe they're just coming up with a list of things they think are an issue like:

-too hard to get ghosts when going mech
-Thor timing pushes a problem
-robo tech too common
-4gate in pvp too common

And they address that stuff. Even if they do do it as you say, I don't see the problem in this case. I think a (old)thor timing push WITH ghosts would be utterly unstoppable. I have no idea how toss could possibly stop that.
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
May 04 2011 15:11 GMT
#3380
In the same time frame that protoss can get HTs to feedback thors/banshees/BCs without their respective upgrades, Terran can most certainly get the now cheaper ghost to feedback their own units before a battle if that's really your concern.

Ghosts are good by themselves.
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