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On April 24 2011 14:31 TRAP[yoo] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:02 canikizu wrote:On April 24 2011 13:43 FezTheCaliph wrote:
Ok calling it now. IMSEn You mean IMZergKing? i think so too maybe after sen finished university
Pretty sure Sen is set on joining the Taiwanese SC2 league. I heard they actually pay their players sizable salaries. If IM doesn't have a sponsor (and thus, no monthly salary), I don't see how they will attract any big name who has other better monetary options. Then again, just the chance to train with NesTea, Losira, and mvp will probably be good enough. So who knows? 
Either way, the fact remains: just being in IM does in no way, shape, or form, guarantee a win in the GSL. The fact that the GSL is so top-heavy in its prize structure certainly doesn't help.
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MVP isn't even showing what terrans at the very top can do. His best strength is his economic timings, has decent macro, micro, tactical awareness. Ryung has better macro. MKP has better micro. MMA has better decision making and is mentally stronger than him. Slayers terrans are also showing they might be better than him tactically (TvP especially). MVP's drops usually only serve to force his opponents into a multi-tasking battle, while Slayers' drops are almost always part of a greater picture - to reposition their main army when the enemy is out of position.
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mvp based his argument on the mobility of races vs maps. although its somewhat good reasoning, I don't think mobility is the determining factor for how much more powerful a race is than the other. lack of mobility is one thing, but high static defense is another. if all races had all aspects equalized, it would lead to a boring game.
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On April 24 2011 14:43 Lokian wrote:
mvp based his argument on the mobility of races vs maps. although its somewhat good reasoning, I don't think mobility is the determining factor for how much more powerful a race is than the other. lack of mobility is one thing, but high static defense is another. if all races had all aspects equalized, it would lead to a boring game.
I could not agree more sir.
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On April 24 2011 14:42 babysimba wrote:
MVP isn't even showing what terrans at the very top can do. His best strength is his economic timings, has decent macro, micro, tactical awareness. Ryung has better macro. MKP has better micro. MMA has better decision making and is mentally stronger than him. Slayers terrans are also showing they might be better them him tactically (TvP especially). MVP's drops usually only serve to force his opponents into a multi-tasking battle, while Slayers' drops are almost always part of a greater picture - to reposition their main army when the enemy is out of position.
That's an interesting analysis - but it also pretty much says that he's the most complete Terran player right now (along with Bomber). Also, I'm not sure if Ryung does have better macro - at the very least, the differences are tiny, because SC2 macro-mechanics (not micro or multi-tasking) have a lower skill ceiling than everything else.
Edit: for example, in the one televised game where MMA beat mvp, he essentially won that game with a hidden base at mvp's gold. That's very risky, and I'm not sure if that actually counts as "better" decision-making. To each his own, I suppose.
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uh oh, more and more pro's saying protoss is the strongest race, hide before the toss players come in and tell everyone how to play their race.
And how is it that no tourneys are inviting these IM players, that is shocking to me.
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On April 24 2011 14:37 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:31 TRAP[yoo] wrote:On April 24 2011 14:02 canikizu wrote:On April 24 2011 13:43 FezTheCaliph wrote:
Ok calling it now. IMSEn You mean IMZergKing? i think so too maybe after sen finished university Pretty sure Sen is set on joining the Taiwanese SC2 league. I heard they actually pay their players sizable salaries. If IM doesn't have a sponsor (and thus, no monthly salary), I don't see how they will attract any big name who has other better monetary options. Then again, just the chance to train with NesTea, Losira, and mvp will probably be good enough. So who knows? Either way, the fact remains: just being in IM does in no way, shape, or form, guarantee a win in the GSL. The fact that the GSL is so top-heavy in its prize structure certainly doesn't help.
Ah man, crushing my hopes and dreams =p. I was just thinking because they put ability to communicate with the team as a one of their top requirements that Sen is an obvious choice in that regard. If I am not mistaken he was able to answer the questions of the Korean commentators in Korean or they were able to speak with him directly in Taiwanese.
Also, the proximity is a plus, as Taiwan is much closer to Korea than Europe or America, which is why I also was thinking m00nglade(who I understand was also taking steps to learning Korean)
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I think its funny that when MVP says he thinks Terran is at the biggest disadvantage on the big maps and since the GSL plays on all these big maps it makes it hard, he wasn't talking about balance. Yet the whole thread is full of arguing about how weak/strong it is.
How many of you actually listened to the video and how many just saw the thread name and ran to the POST REPLY button?
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the IM coach could prolly date kelly milkies.
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On April 24 2011 14:55 Xeteh wrote:
I think its funny that when MC says he thinks Terran is at the biggest disadvantage on the big maps and since the GSL plays on all these big maps it makes it hard, he wasn't talking about balance. Yet the whole thread is full of arguing about how weak/strong it is.
How many of you actually listened to the video and how many just saw the thread name and ran to the POST REPLY button?
Most people watched enough of it to tell that we are talking about MVP, not MC o.O
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Interesting that the coach even says Zerg are struggling the most and balance still needs adjusting.
Koreans seem more willing to admit balance still has a way to go regardless of what race they play.
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When I think back to the balance patches, all i can see for Terran is nerfs. Nerfs of all sizes and useless buffs. I play race X. In the beginning race X was very strong. In the middle X race became less strong. Now at the end (current point in time) X race is even weaker than in the middle.
I can see where MvP is coming from. On paper Terran might not be the weakest race, But this feeling of becoming weaker and weaker could definitely make anyone feel like they are the weakest link. U can replace X with z t or p and I would feel the same way.
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On April 24 2011 14:57 Fingulfin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:55 Xeteh wrote:
I think its funny that when MC says he thinks Terran is at the biggest disadvantage on the big maps and since the GSL plays on all these big maps it makes it hard, he wasn't talking about balance. Yet the whole thread is full of arguing about how weak/strong it is.
How many of you actually listened to the video and how many just saw the thread name and ran to the POST REPLY button? Most people watched enough of it to tell that we are talking about MVP, not MC o.O
Oh God, a typo! Now my point is invalid!
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thank you artosis for the videos. can't wait for the other ones.
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On April 24 2011 14:17 MK4512 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 13:57 SilverPotato wrote:On April 24 2011 13:56 SwirlQ wrote:On April 24 2011 12:28 Djeez wrote:On April 24 2011 12:21 soupchicken wrote:On April 24 2011 12:18 infinity2k9 wrote:On April 24 2011 12:04 SilverPotato wrote:On April 24 2011 12:00 Mailing wrote:
Weakest? Hardly.
Maybe hardest to play, but even that is stretching it. I'm sorry but it's not beta anymore... Yeah T is much harder than zerg and especially toss. How? Mechanically? Zerg is clearly harder mechanically, just the nature of the race and balancing drone/unit production. I play Zerg... and even I think that Terran mechanics are the hardest to do perfectly. But then again I just might be just so used to Zerg that I don't realize how difficult it can be. Agreed. Terran mechanics and micro is way harder than Zerg imo. I think that Zerg requires a better game sense/game knowledge/timings though. And toss? ez read my mind. formula for success with toss Good BO + Good FF = win Don't forget the ability to move around an automatically formed death ball! Yes, obviously protoss requires no skill and blindly a-moving results in a win every time, with no actual knowledge of timings, micro or macro at all, and no user is biased to their own race at all. Also, terran bioball also autoforms, i dont understand why that is even an issue or a point of contention. these posts sound like something out of combat ex... I don't even know why I even participate in this kind of discussion, its retarded.
Timings are timings no matter the race its attack at this time and that time thats bronze level crap, however in terms of both Micro and Macro, Protoss has it easiest, its not an opinion, its actually how the game was designed. And Yes Terran balls auto form too, except Terran players have to constantly work to keep their units from forming into balls during battles because then none of the back units can do damage.
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You know this reminds me of MC's interview. When Protoss was the weakest race, MC said he'll beat everyone and show everyone how to play Protoss instead of whining. I think every pro should adopt that attitude.
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Nice interviews Artosis ^_^ . I love the interviews and the house tours. All of a sudden I really miss the interviews that where done after the matches in GSL in season 1-3 ( and John ).
I thought that NASL wanted the IM guys to go in the league but they had a language barrier and the coach/team didn't sign up in time. Hopefully that dosent happen again, all the terrans in the foreign scene would be so happy to see MVP go to foreign events. Boxer is good and all (althought skill wise a bit over hyped) but MVP is seriously the best terran in the world and people want to see him live or on stream but against foreigners and in foreign tournaments. Just look at MVP vs Dimaga...everyone loved that game. Not to mention that IMNestea is the best zerg in the world, IMLoosira coming close to him too and the funky protoss players they have like IMSeed.
Artosis please please please tell IMcoach to get on Twitter(or other social networks) to be able to get invited to tournaments or just to spread their name to the foreign scene :D I feel that IM is unfairly underrated for some reason (no sponsors, no invites...) if nobody can message them, then how can they be invited? ( there are other ways but the other teams have done this and look at ST and oGs, they are getting ALOT more attention than IM ) :D I really am a big MVP fan :< I want to see him in foreign tournaments more.(P.S. You missed the best MVP question: Why does he always play in tournaments with his mouth open like :
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/590.jpg)
You know something is wrong when really good terran players (MVP,others) say terran is the weakest, really awesome zerg players (actually all the zerg players) say zerg is the weakest and protoss players say all is fine with the balance.
Man I really wrote a big wall of text...hopefully someone will read it :D
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I was curious how the GSL stats supported MVP's claim that big maps made Terran weaker, so I went back and took all the race stats on Crevasse, Tal'Darim, and Terminus(the 3 biggest new maps) from GSTL 1 & 2, GSL WC(the tournament rounds), GSL Mar code S & A & up/down, and GSL May code S & A so far. Here's where we stand with wins between the match-ups.
Terminus RE
ZvT - 5/4
TvP - 10/7
ZvP - 5/5
Tal'Darim Altar
ZvT - 4/9
TvP - 13/7
ZvP - 6/5
Crevasse
ZvT - 6/9
TvP - 3/1
ZvP - 2/4
Totals:
ZvT - 15/22 Terran wins 59%
TvP - 26/15 Terran wins 63%
ZvP - 13/14 Protoss wins 52%
Looks like Terrans are still kicking butt in Korea.
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Would love to see the IM crew hitting up more tournaments outside of the GSL
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On April 24 2011 15:15 Irrelevant wrote:
Would love to see the IM crew hitting up more tournaments outside of the GSL
thats his personal opinion dude there is nothing to prove or to unprove
for me zerg is op because im so bad @it
stupid artosis i want more vods :D
great job man
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EPT
