• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:40
CEST 11:40
KST 18:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1246 users

Heart of the Swarm to be Unveiled Next Month - Page 30

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 53 Next
coolcor
Profile Joined February 2011
520 Posts
May 23 2011 19:30 GMT
#581
On May 24 2011 04:22 ICanFlyLow wrote:
Ill be so pissed if they release an expansion with an already incomplete original game lacking in multiple areas, for fuck sake stop caring about increasing your sale rates for once and focus on what you are or used to be passionate about, giving gamers a fun and fulfilling experience. Blizzard isnt what it used to be, never will it either be again. Expect nothing more. Enjoy and remember the good old days.

Not buying the expansion for 1 cent.


But blizzard released expansions to all of its games so how does this show it isn't what it used to be? What makes sc2 lacking in multiple areas and vanilla sc1 wc3 or WoW not?
Staboteur
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada1873 Posts
May 23 2011 19:37 GMT
#582
On May 24 2011 04:22 ICanFlyLow wrote:
Ill be so pissed if they release an expansion with an already incomplete original game lacking in multiple areas, for fuck sake stop caring about increasing your sale rates for once and focus on what you are or used to be passionate about, giving gamers a fun and fulfilling experience. Blizzard isnt what it used to be, never will it either be again. Expect nothing more. Enjoy and remember the good old days.

Not buying the expansion for 1 cent.


O__O

Ever heard of rose-tinted glasses?

If you're serious, try look at Diablo (original) using the same critical analysis you used to determine that SC2 is an incomplete game lacking in multiple areas. Then look at its sequel. Stepping forward, more fun, right?

Blizzard still seems to aim to make fun games at a level above the competition. The day they release a generic first-person shooter about marines fighting aliens in space is the day I'll agree with you. Until then? I'll keep enjoying these sequels, each being better (or in SC2's case, better looking ) than the last.
I'm actually Fleetfeet D:
DARKHYDRA
Profile Joined September 2006
United States303 Posts
May 23 2011 19:44 GMT
#583
So... any news yet? Pretty late in the month and I haven't seen any news posted anywhere.
DeltruS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2214 Posts
May 23 2011 19:49 GMT
#584
On May 24 2011 04:44 DARKHYDRA wrote:
So... any news yet? Pretty late in the month and I haven't seen any news posted anywhere.


I think they said the press release would be this week, but they might wait a week for everyone to write up articles. When they first released Diablo 3 and WoL info at a non blizzcon event, everyone was given a pack of screenshots and videos to put in with their articles.
http://grooveshark.com/#/deltrus/music
xOTian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States53 Posts
May 23 2011 19:55 GMT
#585
Have anyone heard anything about the price of these expansions? Lol, I found the video at blizzcon about the preliminary designs..... One of the new zerg units involve the bunker! I know this is not finalize, but it is funny that blizzard's first instinct for new and unique units start with the bunker -_-;
Louuster
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2869 Posts
May 23 2011 19:57 GMT
#586
Cella is leaving for irvine tomorrow too
Kim Taek Yong fighting~
Dimagus
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1004 Posts
May 23 2011 19:58 GMT
#587
On May 24 2011 04:55 xOTian wrote:
Have anyone heard anything about the price of these expansions? Lol, I found the video at blizzcon about the preliminary designs..... One of the new zerg units involve the bunker! I know this is not finalize, but it is funny that blizzard's first instinct for new and unique units start with the bunker -_-;


I think it would be funny if Queens could infest bunkers, and when you deflect those early rushes by Terran all the marines trapped inside get infested, and then the bunker monster starts walking over to the Terran's base so you can bunker rush him instead.
voltaic
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1071 Posts
May 23 2011 20:04 GMT
#588
main point: push the dates as far away as they can "-.-
2 more day till heart of the swarm D:
nemo14
Profile Joined January 2011
United States425 Posts
May 23 2011 20:04 GMT
#589
On May 24 2011 04:58 Dimagus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 04:55 xOTian wrote:
Have anyone heard anything about the price of these expansions? Lol, I found the video at blizzcon about the preliminary designs..... One of the new zerg units involve the bunker! I know this is not finalize, but it is funny that blizzard's first instinct for new and unique units start with the bunker -_-;


I think it would be funny if Queens could infest bunkers, and when you deflect those early rushes by Terran all the marines trapped inside get infested, and then the bunker monster starts walking over to the Terran's base so you can bunker rush him instead.


If they made the zerg nag-voice say "KARMA IS A BITCH, AIN'T SHE?" to the terran player whenever you infested a bunker, I would pay sixty bucks just for that one ability.
SxYSpAz
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1451 Posts
May 23 2011 20:05 GMT
#590
On May 24 2011 04:57 Louuster wrote:
Cella is leaving for irvine tomorrow too

whats this discussion about players having something to do with the release? are they testing balance for new units or promoting or something. and link please if there is one... ? XD
TUski
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1258 Posts
May 23 2011 20:11 GMT
#591
On May 24 2011 05:04 nemo14 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 04:58 Dimagus wrote:
On May 24 2011 04:55 xOTian wrote:
Have anyone heard anything about the price of these expansions? Lol, I found the video at blizzcon about the preliminary designs..... One of the new zerg units involve the bunker! I know this is not finalize, but it is funny that blizzard's first instinct for new and unique units start with the bunker -_-;


I think it would be funny if Queens could infest bunkers, and when you deflect those early rushes by Terran all the marines trapped inside get infested, and then the bunker monster starts walking over to the Terran's base so you can bunker rush him instead.


If they made the zerg nag-voice say "KARMA IS A BITCH, AIN'T SHE?" to the terran player whenever you infested a bunker, I would pay sixty bucks just for that one ability.


Seconded. On the off chance that Dustin Browder sees, this, DO IT.
"There is nothing more cool than being proud of the things that you love." - Day[9]
MasterFischer
Profile Joined August 2009
Denmark836 Posts
May 23 2011 20:47 GMT
#592
The Blizzard hate in this thread is strong.. I sense it.

Yees... Goooooooooood..

Let your emotions.. floow... my pretties..
WHO is this who speaks to me as though I needed his advice?
Avean
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Norway449 Posts
May 23 2011 21:48 GMT
#593
I really hope this wont screw up the multiplayer. Like seperating people with expansion and without. I am not digging that. Hope its only singleplayer.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
May 23 2011 21:52 GMT
#594
On May 24 2011 04:30 coolcor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 04:22 ICanFlyLow wrote:
Ill be so pissed if they release an expansion with an already incomplete original game lacking in multiple areas, for fuck sake stop caring about increasing your sale rates for once and focus on what you are or used to be passionate about, giving gamers a fun and fulfilling experience. Blizzard isnt what it used to be, never will it either be again. Expect nothing more. Enjoy and remember the good old days.

Not buying the expansion for 1 cent.


But blizzard released expansions to all of its games so how does this show it isn't what it used to be? What makes sc2 lacking in multiple areas and vanilla sc1 wc3 or WoW not?


No LAN, no clan system, absolutely horrific system for finding custom games.

Of course, I'm not going to be pissed about it. I lost all faith in Blizzard shortly after WoW came out.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Daniri
Profile Joined May 2007
387 Posts
May 23 2011 21:57 GMT
#595
On May 24 2011 06:48 Avean wrote:
I really hope this wont screw up the multiplayer. Like seperating people with expansion and without. I am not digging that. Hope its only singleplayer.


It's not, stop hoping.
"you guys are silly lol thats why i hate you people" berserkboar
lindn
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden833 Posts
May 23 2011 22:02 GMT
#596
On May 24 2011 04:22 ICanFlyLow wrote:
Ill be so pissed if they release an expansion with an already incomplete original game lacking in multiple areas, for fuck sake stop caring about increasing your sale rates for once and focus on what you are or used to be passionate about, giving gamers a fun and fulfilling experience. Blizzard isnt what it used to be, never will it either be again. Expect nothing more. Enjoy and remember the good old days.

Not buying the expansion for 1 cent.

SC1 pretty broken game, expansion made it godlike.

Diablo 2, pretty decent game, expansion made it way better.

WC3, online play is imbalanced, expansion fixes a massive part of that (and added one of the best single player i've ever played apart from wc3 itself)

WoW being sweet, expansion fixes a lot of balance issues and makes (IMFO) the PvP and PvE part way better. (not commenting on later expansions, they were all shit, that's the only exception here)

i trust blizzard makes this game better than it already is.
ScaSully
Profile Joined April 2011
United States488 Posts
May 23 2011 22:05 GMT
#597
i hope this game has a good bunker. If not this might be a troll
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MaxField
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2386 Posts
May 23 2011 22:08 GMT
#598
On May 24 2011 07:02 lindn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 04:22 ICanFlyLow wrote:
Ill be so pissed if they release an expansion with an already incomplete original game lacking in multiple areas, for fuck sake stop caring about increasing your sale rates for once and focus on what you are or used to be passionate about, giving gamers a fun and fulfilling experience. Blizzard isnt what it used to be, never will it either be again. Expect nothing more. Enjoy and remember the good old days.

Not buying the expansion for 1 cent.

SC1 pretty broken game, expansion made it godlike.

Diablo 2, pretty decent game, expansion made it way better.

WC3, online play is imbalanced, expansion fixes a massive part of that (and added one of the best single player i've ever played apart from wc3 itself)

WoW being sweet, expansion fixes a lot of balance issues and makes (IMFO) the PvP and PvE part way better. (not commenting on later expansions, they were all shit, that's the only exception here)

i trust blizzard makes this game better than it already is.

It is so true, they are planning on releasing an expansion, but that does not mean quit focusing on the original (which they have not done) or does it mean wait until the original is perfect in every way, and they make the next part (which they are not doing). I trust blizz's judgment, but that my come to bite me some day.
"Zerg, so bad it loses to hydras" IdrA.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
May 23 2011 22:19 GMT
#599
On May 23 2011 05:27 Sakarabu wrote:As for ZvT, from a spectator standpoint it feels completely in the Zerg's favour. It's time Zerg stopped whining, it's getting really tiring and completely unfounded.


I wanted to use this as a springboard for expressing my own hopes with regards to HotS.

I've long since lost count of the number of times some full or partial version of the following sentiment has been expressed on these boards:

"Zergs just aren't innovating the way Terran and Protoss players are. I mean, we've had phoenix openers, 4-gate, 6-gate, blink, 3 gate expand, all manner of 2-rax, banshees, marauder/hellion, thor rushes - and what do Zerg do? 6-pool, or whine if they can't hatch first in close positions. What are they complaining about; they win GSLs don't they?"

Yes, Zerg players have been unusually vocal since release, and while the intervening balance changes perhaps vindicate some of the QQ, the other matchups have changed at least as profoundly and so ought, by the same logic, to have curtailed or precipitated equal displeasure from the other races. Since this hasn't happened, what are Zerg players bitching about?

Short version: most QQ isn't about balance. It's about surprise.

For the long version, we turn first to Day[9]. Watch enough of him, and he'll end up telling you that a strategy that relies upon surprising your opponent isn't a good strategy, which is good advice if you're playing a highly refined, decade-old game like Broodwar where there are always a half-dozen well-known tells to give you away.

But this is Starcraft 2, a much younger and less well-understood game. And of the three races, it turned out that Zerg is, by some considerable margin, the easiest to surprise, and has the fewest (or the least apparent) surprises up its chitin.

This fact is not obvious upon a cursory inspection of the Zerg tech tree. Burrowed banelings sound like they have the potential to be pretty fucking surprising. Infestors burrowing into your mineral line. Roaches popping up and down and refusing to die. Overseers gooping up your buildings. Nydus worms. It sounds like Zerg has everything they need to surprise the living shit out of everyone.

Unfortunately, it didn't seem to work out that way. While it turned out that Terran could pretty safely rush for banshees or blue-flame hellions or Thors or drops, and Protoss could pretty safely rush for DTs or blink stalkers or Phoenix or Void Rays (pick a tech, and rushing for it has paid off for T and P over the past year) there really wasn't much Zerg could rush for that wouldn't be shut down or beaten to the punch by most things his opponent was likely to be doing. And even when a given build ceased to be a complete surprise, a lot of Protoss and Terran effort was expended finding ways to conceal what they were doing or misdirect their Zerg opponents.

And yet. And yet.

Despite the inarguably large proportion of games Zergs all over the world and at all levels were losing to surprising strategies (or 'bullshit' as it is pronounced in the Zerg tongue), they held their ground on the ladder and - though tending to be somewhat under-represented in tournaments - nevertheless walked away with the coveted GSL title more than once.

That should be ringing alarm bells somewhere. Zerg players in general doing OK despite high rates of build-order loss? Zerg pros generally not doing so well, but one or two dominating? Hmm.

A race ought not to be kept in check largely through the element of surprise. Either the surprises will cease to be effective - in which case the game will end up broken at the pro level or imbalanced for casual play - or the success of Zerg pros will become a coinflip.

So my wish for HotS, in a nutshell, is for Zerg to become a little more surprising and a little less easily surprised. After that, it can be balanced more accurately and easily with the other races, who will in turn feel less obliged to go for the bullsh... surprising win.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
DARKHYDRA
Profile Joined September 2006
United States303 Posts
May 23 2011 23:01 GMT
#600
On May 24 2011 07:19 Umpteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2011 05:27 Sakarabu wrote:As for ZvT, from a spectator standpoint it feels completely in the Zerg's favour. It's time Zerg stopped whining, it's getting really tiring and completely unfounded.


I wanted to use this as a springboard for expressing my own hopes with regards to HotS.

I've long since lost count of the number of times some full or partial version of the following sentiment has been expressed on these boards:

"Zergs just aren't innovating the way Terran and Protoss players are. I mean, we've had phoenix openers, 4-gate, 6-gate, blink, 3 gate expand, all manner of 2-rax, banshees, marauder/hellion, thor rushes - and what do Zerg do? 6-pool, or whine if they can't hatch first in close positions. What are they complaining about; they win GSLs don't they?"

Yes, Zerg players have been unusually vocal since release, and while the intervening balance changes perhaps vindicate some of the QQ, the other matchups have changed at least as profoundly and so ought, by the same logic, to have curtailed or precipitated equal displeasure from the other races. Since this hasn't happened, what are Zerg players bitching about?

Short version: most QQ isn't about balance. It's about surprise.

For the long version, we turn first to Day[9]. Watch enough of him, and he'll end up telling you that a strategy that relies upon surprising your opponent isn't a good strategy, which is good advice if you're playing a highly refined, decade-old game like Broodwar where there are always a half-dozen well-known tells to give you away.

But this is Starcraft 2, a much younger and less well-understood game. And of the three races, it turned out that Zerg is, by some considerable margin, the easiest to surprise, and has the fewest (or the least apparent) surprises up its chitin.

This fact is not obvious upon a cursory inspection of the Zerg tech tree. Burrowed banelings sound like they have the potential to be pretty fucking surprising. Infestors burrowing into your mineral line. Roaches popping up and down and refusing to die. Overseers gooping up your buildings. Nydus worms. It sounds like Zerg has everything they need to surprise the living shit out of everyone.

Unfortunately, it didn't seem to work out that way. While it turned out that Terran could pretty safely rush for banshees or blue-flame hellions or Thors or drops, and Protoss could pretty safely rush for DTs or blink stalkers or Phoenix or Void Rays (pick a tech, and rushing for it has paid off for T and P over the past year) there really wasn't much Zerg could rush for that wouldn't be shut down or beaten to the punch by most things his opponent was likely to be doing. And even when a given build ceased to be a complete surprise, a lot of Protoss and Terran effort was expended finding ways to conceal what they were doing or misdirect their Zerg opponents.

And yet. And yet.

Despite the inarguably large proportion of games Zergs all over the world and at all levels were losing to surprising strategies (or 'bullshit' as it is pronounced in the Zerg tongue), they held their ground on the ladder and - though tending to be somewhat under-represented in tournaments - nevertheless walked away with the coveted GSL title more than once.

That should be ringing alarm bells somewhere. Zerg players in general doing OK despite high rates of build-order loss? Zerg pros generally not doing so well, but one or two dominating? Hmm.

A race ought not to be kept in check largely through the element of surprise. Either the surprises will cease to be effective - in which case the game will end up broken at the pro level or imbalanced for casual play - or the success of Zerg pros will become a coinflip.

So my wish for HotS, in a nutshell, is for Zerg to become a little more surprising and a little less easily surprised. After that, it can be balanced more accurately and easily with the other races, who will in turn feel less obliged to go for the bullsh... surprising win.


This is pretty much how I feel about. I just could never write it as nicely as this. Great post sir.
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 53 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 193
ProTech67
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 1123
actioN 906
Flash 756
Bisu 728
GuemChi 396
Killer 368
Hyun 287
Hyuk 217
BeSt 208
hero 200
[ Show more ]
PianO 143
Pusan 73
Dewaltoss 69
ggaemo 67
ZerO 64
soO 39
Sharp 35
sorry 33
Nal_rA 24
ToSsGirL 23
Noble 19
Sexy 16
Free 12
Sacsri 12
Bale 6
HiyA 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe861
BananaSlamJamma375
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1433
shoxiejesuss408
Stewie2K324
allub224
edward28
Other Games
ceh9650
Pyrionflax206
RotterdaM189
XaKoH 164
crisheroes126
NeuroSwarm67
Trikslyr30
Mew2King30
ZerO(Twitch)4
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 691
Other Games
gamesdonequick369
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt1002
• Jankos740
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
1h 20m
OSC
9h 20m
RSL Revival
1d
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
1d 3h
RSL Revival
2 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.