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On May 15 2011 02:49 Grumbels wrote:
Should the lurker be in there or not? is a bit of a strange question, I think, simply by the way it is phrased. If I come up with some design for a unit, then I don't ask: "should my unit be in the game?", rather, I would ask for feedback on my idea and ways to make it better suitable for being in there. If you ask it in the first way it's just like the forum has the ability to decide on the units of the game, and since that assumption is preposterous, it's probably also something you should stop discussing.
And in fact, think about it from a developer's point of view. They're looking into new units, and given they're professionals they will have no problem coming up with dozens of concepts, so why single out the lurker? There is a case for this, which is that you want continuity with the original game, but other than that I hope Blizzard looks at concepts based on their merits, not popularity.
And by the way, the lurker has a specific reason for why it likely won't get into the game. Namely, it's visibly unappealing, since in its combat form it's just a dark shadow. We all were used to it in Brood War, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea; in fact, I thought it was rather silly to have the black circle represent such a big threat to terran bio armies.
I might be wrong, of course, since the lurker did exist in the alpha version, so there's at least some precedent to Blizzard having considered it. That said, you can easily view that the other way and say that they gave the unit a chance and decided against it. If they rejected it once, what are the odds they're going back on their original decision?
In any case, I think arguing about it has more to do with indulging people's fetishes for Brood War continuity than what would be proper design. I'm aware people might fancy space control units to have additional strategic depth, and generally be healthy for the game, but if that's true, then convince Blizzard of that notion. It'll be up to them to implement a unit with a concept like that. If it's the lurker, then great, but if it's another unit to fill the same role then be happy with that. So I think it's important to argue for what you actually want, not some proxy issue to confuse everything.
In my opinion the reason they got rid of the lurker wasn't because it was visually unappealing or overlapped with the baneling or anything like that. What I think happened is that they couldn't find a way to make the lurker fit into the tech tree with hydras being lair tech. This means that lurkers would have to be hive tech and the lurker is a bit too weak of a unit to be put at hive tech. Basically you can say that the roach killed the lurker because roaches being at tier 1 bumped hydras to tier 2 which then bumped lurkers out,
In all honesty (I know this is never going to happen) I would like to see a complete overhaul of the design of the roach, hydra, corrupter, and ultralisk. I like the ideas and the art behind all of these units, I just feel that there's not much depth to them.
Roach: I would like to see this unit just removed or seriously reworked. The burrow movement sees no use other than an escape mechanism from being locked down by force fields or to go under force fields. Burrow regeneration doesn't really have that big of an impact on large battles and the only time burrow regen matters is when detection is not available. It also suffers hugely from the 1a syndrome. It's also 2 supply and tanky making it more like a protoss or a terran unit than a zerg unit.
Hydra: make it faster and take away some dps or something. I don't care how much dps is taken away I just want the ability to get away with my hydras after a battle.
Corrupter: Generalized anti air unit. 1a syndrome. Corruption never used. Even if corruption were used it's a boring spell. Compared to the other 2 anti air units (void rays, phoenix, and vikings) the corrupter is just boring and has no other mechanics other than its ability to attack.
Ultralisk: I just feel this unit has lost some of its scare factor it had in BW. I wish the ultralisk scare factor was more like the brood lord scare factor. They're too kiteable which is the problem with the entire design of the ultralisk. Stim a couple of marauders and you can kite them forever if you have good micro. I'd like to see some sort of interesting mechanic on the ultralisk like an ability to push units out of the way that it doesn't want to attack. So for example if you had a protoss ball and the ultralisk wanted to get at the colossi it can ignore the stalkers and push them out of the way. It could also use this ability to get into the middle of a ball of units to maximize splash. Damage would have to be nerfed a bit to compensate. An ability like this would make the ultra more scary and would encourage micro.
Also in order for the zerg to be more swarmy I'd like to see a 1 supply unit return to the zerg. Right now zerg armies just look tiny at 200 supply.
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On May 15 2011 03:20 Coldplum wrote:
I can't imagine a way to add a hero unit into sc2. I'm intrigued, but I don't think it would be completely feasible. Regardless I love sc2 and an expansion to the game I love is nothing but a welcome addition. Yay Blizzard!
the hero unit will only be in singleplayer
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On May 15 2011 03:55 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 03:20 Coldplum wrote:
I can't imagine a way to add a hero unit into sc2. I'm intrigued, but I don't think it would be completely feasible. Regardless I love sc2 and an expansion to the game I love is nothing but a welcome addition. Yay Blizzard! the hero unit will only be in singleplayer
You dont remember the hero units in WoL? Raynor? Tychus? etc..
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On May 15 2011 03:44 Zerksys wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 02:49 Grumbels wrote:
Should the lurker be in there or not? is a bit of a strange question, I think, simply by the way it is phrased. If I come up with some design for a unit, then I don't ask: "should my unit be in the game?", rather, I would ask for feedback on my idea and ways to make it better suitable for being in there. If you ask it in the first way it's just like the forum has the ability to decide on the units of the game, and since that assumption is preposterous, it's probably also something you should stop discussing.
And in fact, think about it from a developer's point of view. They're looking into new units, and given they're professionals they will have no problem coming up with dozens of concepts, so why single out the lurker? There is a case for this, which is that you want continuity with the original game, but other than that I hope Blizzard looks at concepts based on their merits, not popularity.
And by the way, the lurker has a specific reason for why it likely won't get into the game. Namely, it's visibly unappealing, since in its combat form it's just a dark shadow. We all were used to it in Brood War, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea; in fact, I thought it was rather silly to have the black circle represent such a big threat to terran bio armies.
I might be wrong, of course, since the lurker did exist in the alpha version, so there's at least some precedent to Blizzard having considered it. That said, you can easily view that the other way and say that they gave the unit a chance and decided against it. If they rejected it once, what are the odds they're going back on their original decision?
In any case, I think arguing about it has more to do with indulging people's fetishes for Brood War continuity than what would be proper design. I'm aware people might fancy space control units to have additional strategic depth, and generally be healthy for the game, but if that's true, then convince Blizzard of that notion. It'll be up to them to implement a unit with a concept like that. If it's the lurker, then great, but if it's another unit to fill the same role then be happy with that. So I think it's important to argue for what you actually want, not some proxy issue to confuse everything. In my opinion the reason they got rid of the lurker wasn't because it was visually unappealing or overlapped with the baneling or anything like that. What I think happened is that they couldn't find a way to make the lurker fit into the tech tree with hydras being lair tech. This means that lurkers would have to be hive tech and the lurker is a bit too weak of a unit to be put at hive tech. Basically you can say that the roach killed the lurker because roaches being at tier 1 bumped hydras to tier 2 which then bumped lurkers out, In all honesty (I know this is never going to happen) I would like to see a complete overhaul of the design of the roach, hydra, corrupter, and ultralisk. I like the ideas and the art behind all of these units, I just feel that there's not much depth to them. Roach: I would like to see this unit just removed or seriously reworked. The burrow movement sees no use other than an escape mechanism from being locked down by force fields or to go under force fields. Burrow regeneration doesn't really have that big of an impact on large battles and the only time burrow regen matters is when detection is not available. It also suffers hugely from the 1a syndrome. It's also 2 supply and tanky making it more like a protoss or a terran unit than a zerg unit. Hydra: make it faster and take away some dps or something. I don't care how much dps is taken away I just want the ability to get away with my hydras after a battle. Corrupter: Generalized anti air unit. 1a syndrome. Corruption never used. Even if corruption were used it's a boring spell. Compared to the other 2 anti air units (void rays, phoenix, and vikings) the corrupter is just boring and has no other mechanics other than its ability to attack. Ultralisk: I just feel this unit has lost some of its scare factor it had in BW. I wish the ultralisk scare factor was more like the brood lord scare factor. They're too kiteable which is the problem with the entire design of the ultralisk. Stim a couple of marauders and you can kite them forever if you have good micro. I'd like to see some sort of interesting mechanic on the ultralisk like an ability to push units out of the way that it doesn't want to attack. So for example if you had a protoss ball and the ultralisk wanted to get at the colossi it can ignore the stalkers and push them out of the way. It could also use this ability to get into the middle of a ball of units to maximize splash. Damage would have to be nerfed a bit to compensate. An ability like this would make the ultra more scary and would encourage micro. Also in order for the zerg to be more swarmy I'd like to see a 1 supply unit return to the zerg. Right now zerg armies just look tiny at 200 supply.
Well, I would always advocate not discussing random wishlists, but only points that have relevance. Before you wonder what sort of wonderful things Blizzard could do with all their units to make them more awesome, we'd have to get some sort of idea whether it's possible for them to overhaul the game in such a way. They can't just design the game in isolation, because if they change all the design, balance is essentially reset and then you get yet another situation as with the first couple of months of the game where terran was wildly overpowered.
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On May 15 2011 02:40 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 02:36 Phisk wrote:On May 15 2011 02:03 LoLAdriankat wrote:I'm going to predict that they're giving mutalisks the ability to mutate/evolve again. I don't get why survival of the fittest evolution made them lose that ability.  Well when the zerg evolved broodlords & corruptors maybe Guardians & Devourers became redundant. Siege Tanks doing way less damage makes a lot less sense. How did they loose the Arclite shock cannon? Did they leave it on the bus? You think thats weird. what the hell happened to fast hydras, their legs basically devolved with the new ''gene'' strain.
the hydras legs are fine, but after the broodwars they had like a billion terrans to eat and became all kind of fat.
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On April 22 2011 11:10 DirtYLOu wrote:
RPG LIKE? WHAT IS THIS!?!?!
This should be STARCARFT , not WARCRAFT -.-
wow blizzard really is going big for money there... and dont care about Starcraft Fans.
Wings of LIberty had some "RPG like" things about it imo. Doing missions and earning money to purchase upgrades. Having to find hidden items on a map in order to unlock new abilities. Maybe it will be kind of like that in HOTS?
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When HoS comes out, is it going to bring in a completly different multiplayer meaning most people will switch over to it, or is it going to be using the same system so people who dont buy HoS can still play with those who did???
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I know they can't change the entire multiplayer, and they'll only add 1(2 at best) units to each race for this expansion; but theres still stuff they can change that'll make the game more dynamic.
Dustin Browder always talked about having fewer units, and units that are more useful unfortunately Browder kinda failed, still giving units redundancy.
One of my wishes (i've got hundreds lol):
corrupter corruption ability change. I was thinking giving the ability to shoot a creep ball like throw a bunch of creep on the ground (not a creep tumor, the creep will slowly recede), like an overlord, but you wont need to have the corrupter sit there, you just shoot the ball and the creep stays and slowly goes away after some period of time.
it'll fix the late game creep problem, when zergs don't have enough time/apm to recreate an entire creep higher after it's taken out. also it might give zergs a chance to set up their defense against the PvZ death ball more, or even, with creep, be able to dictate where they'll face the deathball.
(though as a zerg, i don't see many deathballs anymore)
also, something needs to be done with the carriers, I have never seen one on 1v1 ladder. hell, give them the ability to turn into a pylon like the warp prism, or something OP, I just want to see one of these mythical creatures.
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Joining the multiplayer-prediction bandwagon (and calling it so I can quote it later):
Terran will get a new unit, but lose the Reaper. No one will notice its absence. Hellions will get an ability or buff to make them better as main-army units.
Protoss will get a new unit, replacing the Colossus, which will be removed to everyone's celebration. The new unit will have a similar role as AoE dps-dealer, but will also be useful for harassment and will not get unstoppable in numbers. The mothership will probably stay, but might get replaced by a massable flying caster.
Zerg will get two new units, one morphed and one hatched directly, opening up a new unit composition path, hopefully synergistic with Hydralisks. At least one of the new units will be Hive Tech.
I, for one, don't particularly care if the new units are BW resurrections or all-new units; I just hope Blizzard takes this opportunity to make changes to open up new avenues of play without nerfing the entertaining old ones.
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On May 15 2011 06:52 Yoav wrote:I, for one, don't particularly care if the new units are BW resurrections or all-new units; I just hope Blizzard takes this opportunity to make changes to open up new avenues of play without nerfing the entertaining old ones.
yeah i agree with this. I think dustin's vision was kinda lame so i hope they use the time spent on HoS to almost act as extra alpha time for starcraft in general and thus add improvements aswell as finally doing something to the useless units that have been nerfed to death and are just waste (reaper, mothership,carrier)
hopefully it wont change multiplayer too much and wont force people to buy the game on multiplayer grounds alone
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Finally, "next month" and not "soon" =D
Going to be great, is the release date announced yet?
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I hope they add some static mass buffer skills like in BW (irradiate, dark swarm, static field)
Rework or remove the roach, make hydras lower tier and massable (where is the swarm???). Rework corruptors.
Buff terran macro lategame, give terran more viable tech path rather than just MMM, maybe even nerf MMM and buff mech and other builds because really, mass infantry just doesn't feel like terran.
Rework the mothership and colossus. Maybe even remove mothership and get a better arbiter equivalent. I would also like to see ravens buffed in a way which made them a scary support unit (like science vessels). HSM's right now are really expensive
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On May 15 2011 06:45 MaK UK wrote:
When HoS comes out, is it going to bring in a completly different multiplayer meaning most people will switch over to it, or is it going to be using the same system so people who dont buy HoS can still play with those who did???
They already stated that its going to have a new ladder. So yes, if you want to keep playing competitive ladder, you will have to buy HotS.
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On May 15 2011 07:37 iTzAnglory wrote:
Finally, "next month" and not "soon" =D
Going to be great, is the release date announced yet?
notice how the OP was posted last month T___T
I think the reveal was on wednesday iirc, but haven't seen anything of it.
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I think the reveal was on Wednesday iirc, but haven't seen anything of it.
I recall hearing on State of the game that JP said it was Wed or Thursday so i've been waiting like everyone, anyone able to shed some light?
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On May 19 2011 20:28 Irys wrote:I recall hearing on State of the game that JP said it was Wed or Thursday so i've been waiting like everyone, anyone able to shed some light?
I'm pretty sure he said next week. Either way, it's coming really soon. So excited!
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Ah 1 more week! Well it's thursday today, I hope they release it today. But I'm guessing they're holding it till next week?
I wonder what's there going to be? Revamped graphics? New maps? New tile set? I know it'll be single player only but I really want to know what they have been working on in terms of graphics / units / tilesets / art pieces for use later on.
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I'd love for a teir-3 Z unit that can make use of upgrading ranged attack. If they get the lurker in that spot, I'm a happy guy.
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I'm pretty excited to hear about the new multiplayer features/units etc. Sinleplayer is gonna be fun, but that's not why we buy the game is it? Regarding MP I hope it improves the game as much as TFT did for wc3 oder BW for the original SC, though i doubt that is even possible 
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On May 15 2011 06:52 Yoav wrote:
Joining the multiplayer-prediction bandwagon (and calling it so I can quote it later):
Terran will get a new unit, but lose the Reaper. No one will notice its absence. Hellions will get an ability or buff to make them better as main-army units.
Protoss will get a new unit, replacing the Colossus, which will be removed to everyone's celebration. The new unit will have a similar role as AoE dps-dealer, but will also be useful for harassment and will not get unstoppable in numbers. The mothership will probably stay, but might get replaced by a massable flying caster.
Zerg will get two new units, one morphed and one hatched directly, opening up a new unit composition path, hopefully synergistic with Hydralisks. At least one of the new units will be Hive Tech.
I, for one, don't particularly care if the new units are BW resurrections or all-new units; I just hope Blizzard takes this opportunity to make changes to open up new avenues of play without nerfing the entertaining old ones.
Blizzard already said they are reworking the reaper. So terran wont lose it, they plan on fixing it.
I dont think the colosus is going anywhere.
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EPT
