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Mondragon, as most of you probably know, has to face Cruncher on sunday in the TSL. This is why he has been training nonstop against Protoss the past few weeks and one of his trainingpartners is none other than the former WarCraft III Progamer ToD.
One of their games was a really intense match on Metalopolis. As I know ToD for some years now he sent me the replay and Mondragon agreed on me casting it in english (thank you very much once again!).
I hope you guy's enjoy the video and the match itself and judge for yourself if Mondragon is fit to face Cruncher on sunday in the TSL 
Kind regards,
Khaldor
PS: one or two parts of the video may take some minutes to show up in 720p. I have to leave for the airport now as I'll be at the Gadget Show in Birmingham this weekend but didn't want to leave without posting this game. Sorry for the inconvenience, as soon as YouTube processed the videos everything should be fine.
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Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^
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KHALDOR casting MONDRAGON? I must be dreaming.
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On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^
To throw Cruncher off, obviously.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Russian Federation410 Posts
He also practices with mTw.Rine, a german Protoss.
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That was a lot of broodlords.
Mondragon fighting! Good luck in TSL!
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Have the games vs cruncher already been played? If so.. sick hype, great for all parties.
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On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^
The games are being broadcasted on Sunday, but I believe that TSL games are played around a week in advance. Mondragon has probably played Cruncher already.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On April 15 2011 14:15 Bear4188 wrote:Mondragon doesn't practice, he just shows up and gets lucky. + Show Spoiler +
although he does have some tremendous luck.
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I really hope the video and the commentary is ok with you guys. Woke up at 4am today in order to record the whole thing as I wouldn't have had enough time to do it elsewise before leaving for Birmingham.
My apologies if there's some problem or if I wasn't at the top of my game. Hope you enjoy it though. Leaving now, have a great weekend and gl Mondi vs. Cruncher! 
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On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^
The game has probably already been played at the time of this release...
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sounds fishy...he is practicing so hard but he releases these videos?! oh well time to watch!
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Why would mondragon allow these to be showed to the public? Don't let the bad cruncher have a chance at beating mondi! Cruncher will just go void ray colossus, just like he does every game. Mondi fighting!
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On April 15 2011 14:21 HEROwithNOlegacy wrote:
Why would mondragon allow these to be showed to the public? Don't let the bad cruncher have a chance at beating mondi! Cruncher will just go void ray colossus, just like he does every game. Mondi fighting!
Well, i believe the games were already played, so no harm done here.
Wake up for University, get Khaldor Replays, well done Khaldor, now i will be to late :<
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I hope these games will be promising.. i'll watch them tomorrow
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On April 15 2011 14:27 Flameling wrote:
I hope these games will be promising.. i'll watch them tomorrow
It's only one super duper long (hopefully) epic game
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What an awesome match, cheers
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It's gonna be tough for Mondragon. Cruncher eliminated Darkforce in the NASL without too much trouble, and Darkforce has been a top zerg in EU (especially lately).
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On April 15 2011 14:33 dizzy101 wrote:
It's gonna be tough for Mondragon. Cruncher eliminated Darkforce in the NASL without too much trouble, and Darkforce has been a top zerg in EU (especially lately).
darkforce has been slumping hard recently.
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Gonna watch this when I got home
Can't wait
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The game is probably already played then. Also, mondragon probably lost which is why hes letting it out and saying how the build was supposed to go cuz his opoonents could use it against him later on.
ORRRR maybe he's just nice...
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On April 15 2011 14:34 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 14:33 dizzy101 wrote:
It's gonna be tough for Mondragon. Cruncher eliminated Darkforce in the NASL without too much trouble, and Darkforce has been a top zerg in EU (especially lately). darkforce has been slumping hard recently.
Hadn't even heard of him.
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On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^
Well TSL games are played in advance of their airing aren't they? I would hope that the games have already been played if Mondragon is showing off his training.
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It is suppose to be secret training isn't it??? ^^'
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this game is pretty awesome hahaha
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Australia8532 Posts
Wow - Khaldor casting Mondy .. Has to be damn epic!!
Strange this would be released before his TSL match; i am sure Cruncher will be the first to download these - unless of course this is a strategic play. Then again, Mondragon only builds roaches so it shouldn't be to hard to predict :p
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On April 15 2011 14:34 BLinD-RawR wrote:darkforce has been slumping hard recently.
Not really. Look at http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1698_DarKFoRcE
A Go4sc2 cup in early April, some other tourneys in late March. He was also top 3 on European server behind Happy, so I would say he's been strong lately.
However, this past week/2weeks he's been less effective perhaps.
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On the game
+ Show Spoiler +I am not through yet, but i don't get how Tod just does not kill Mondragon, he crushed Mondis main and nat, almost all his Tech, almost his entire army. Though i like how Mondi takes the expansions on Tods side of the map, i think more zerg should do this, even if he can't mine all of it, he gets a slight edge over the other player when it comes down to the players mining out the entire map.
Lol @ the evo chambers @ 35 mins
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long as this game might be i feel that + Show Spoiler + tod wasnt clinical enough and not finishing mondragon when he could instead of it being mondragon being awesome and attempting to claw his way back. stayed on stalker for too long while allowing mondragon to tech to full tier 3 and dragging the game out
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Crazy game and very entertaining.
+ Show Spoiler +
I loved the evolution chamber trick. I've never seen it used it like that late game to go above 200/200 :O
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Yes, very entertaining + Show Spoiler +though i think mondragons play was not all too awesome, threw away army after army, hope it works better against cruncher
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On April 15 2011 14:17 Khaldor wrote:I really hope the video and the commentary is ok with you guys. Woke up at 4am today in order to record the whole thing as I wouldn't have had enough time to do it elsewise before leaving for Birmingham. My apologies if there's some problem or if I wasn't at the top of my game. Hope you enjoy it though. Leaving now, have a great weekend and gl Mondi vs. Cruncher!
Fantastic cast of a fantastic game Khaldor! You always do a great job in everything I have seen from you. Thanks for putting in the effort to bring us such an amazing game =)
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That game was absolutely amazing as was the casting, thanks for the upload Khaldor! :D
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awesome match <3
Also
+ Show Spoiler +holy shit do mass broodlords rape non-voidray 200 P balls
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why would you release this? Tod sent me reps too. I didnt make vods..wtf
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Nice game.
+ Show Spoiler +
It was quite surprising to see how quickly the protoss was able re-max after he lost all his stalkers to the broodlords. I guess Mondragon attacking the gold base gave him enough time to build up an army.
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On April 15 2011 14:15 Bear4188 wrote:Mondragon doesn't practice, he just shows up and gets lucky. + Show Spoiler +
That its actually quoted from him, so not so much of a joke, he does get a bit lucky, just a bit, and he takes the games with those little things, hes one of the most incredibles players who are able to take every little thing in their favor and make it a winning factor.
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Khaldor, you are a hero among casters. Thank you
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On April 15 2011 14:53 Redunzl wrote:
why would you release this? Tod sent me reps too. I didnt make vods..wtf
Have you even read the OP? Jesus some people are despicably rude.
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For some reason I didn't think of Spine + Broodlord defense until seeing this game.
Is this a legitimate way to prevent Protoss from countering while you're guerrilla-roaching his bases?
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I hope we will see that mass queen + drone is the proper counter to the protoss deathball.
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Wow ! That was one of the sickest ZvP I've seen. Crazy crazy game ! This is a must watch !
If he refines his play a little (esp macro wise : when you make more drones that Ret you know you're making TOO MUCH drones :p) I could very well see Mondragon becoming one of the best SC2 zergs.
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Why would he release this? We don't want happy Mondi fans, that would be too risky, imho. Btw, why would they only release one replay, and why did ToD send it to Khaldor? Probably because it is the only one ToD won, else Mondi would have sent it. Winner always sends replays, like in ESL.
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SC2 scene takeover imminent.
(yeah, I'm a fan since BW :<)
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Great game, + Show Spoiler +but I feel like Mondragon's macro was really weak mid game and he was floating way more resources than he should have been. I also feel like he should have remaxed with hydra/roach rather than pure roach when he took out the colossi den the first time. His biggest mistake was attacking the nexus with no mineral fields after he decimated ToD's army, letting Tod remax. ToD didn't play the best game either, did anyone else notice him supply blocked for ages at 18/18? How embarrassing.
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On April 15 2011 15:33 GP wrote:Great game, + Show Spoiler +but I feel like Mondragon's macro was really weak mid game and he was floating way more resources than he should have been. I also feel like he should have remaxed with hydra/roach rather than pure roach when he took out the colossi den the first time. His biggest mistake was attacking the nexus with no mineral fields after he decimated ToD's army, letting Tod remax. ToD didn't play the best game either, did anyone else notice him supply blocked for ages at 18/18? How embarrassing.
+ Show Spoiler +Not sure about other variations of the forge nexus cannon expand, but you stop probes at 18 to get your gateway, then pylon when you have 100. He might have been off due to having to deal with the lings and the pylon was delayed a bit. But the pylon is supposed to be after the gateway and possibly 2nd cannon.
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On April 15 2011 15:39 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 15:33 GP wrote:Great game, + Show Spoiler +but I feel like Mondragon's macro was really weak mid game and he was floating way more resources than he should have been. I also feel like he should have remaxed with hydra/roach rather than pure roach when he took out the colossi den the first time. His biggest mistake was attacking the nexus with no mineral fields after he decimated ToD's army, letting Tod remax. ToD didn't play the best game either, did anyone else notice him supply blocked for ages at 18/18? How embarrassing. + Show Spoiler +Not sure about other variations of the forge nexus cannon expand, but you stop probes at 18 to get your gateway, then pylon when you have 100. He might have been off due to having to deal with the lings and the pylon was delayed a bit. But the pylon is supposed to be after the gateway and possibly 2nd cannon.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
On April 15 2011 14:13 Cedstick wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^ To throw Cruncher off, obviously.
this... cruncher better play tricky
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God I love watching Mondi play Zerg
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Great game, but it just seemed like
+ Show Spoiler + ToD should have ended game much sooner. Hescouts mass brood lord + roach drops and then... pours all his money into cannons and stalkers... ??? A transition into void rays would have ended the game way sooner, but he eventually did that anyways, so wp.
That being said, Mondragon's relentless harass (sniping the robotics facility 2x in the game!) of expansions furthest away from one another to punish the deathball immobility was a thing of art. GG!
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I look forward to one day seeing the Mondragon Evolution Chamber Trick used in professional play.
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On April 15 2011 15:25 Ludwigvan wrote:
Why would he release this? We don't want happy Mondi fans, that would be too risky, imho. Btw, why would they only release one replay, and why did ToD send it to Khaldor? Probably because it is the only one ToD won, else Mondi would have sent it. Winner always sends replays, like in ESL.
They've probably already played
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I've seen one or two pro Zergs throw down about 18 Spore Crawlers, make units, then cancel. Mostly because they're a lot cheaper than Spines or Evos. But I don't know if he had any Evo Chambers left after his main got wiped out, so the 15+ Evo Chambers weren't a bad idea.
Still, what an awesome game. A very strange, but awesome, army composition from Mondi that game.
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I can't help but think Tod should of walked up his collosus on the 6 o'clock base cliff and blinked the mass stalkers up to avoid the spine crawler farm.
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No, it is not played one week in advance. I think they play it earlier that day. L'Tyler on SOTG before his TSL match was talking all the time how he would play his game on the weekend.
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Mondragon is just what Zerg needed.
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On April 15 2011 14:33 dizzy101 wrote:
It's gonna be tough for Mondragon. Cruncher eliminated Darkforce in the NASL without too much trouble, and Darkforce has been a top zerg in EU (especially lately).
+ Show Spoiler +Darkforce was playing pretty poorly those games. Donates his first 5 infestors to Colossus without Thermal lance by move commanding them, runs his entire army into forcefields and gets wiped out when he could have just backed out and let the corruptors kill the Colossus/Voidrays...
As much as I want to give props to Cruncher, it was more like Darkforce playing poorly than Cruncher playing well
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Love mondragon.
Mondragon fighting!
CRUSH CRUNCHER GOGOGOGO
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On April 15 2011 16:32 -Archangel- wrote:
No, it is not played one week in advance. I think they play it earlier that day. L'Tyler on SOTG before his TSL match was talking all the time how he would play his game on the weekend.
He could've meant that they were being broadcast on the weekend.
When IdrA played vs Cruncher it wasn't on the new patch while other games being broadcast that same day were, and the patch came out on a Wednesday or something, so they played in the middle of the week.
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more obvious spoilers please 
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great game, ty for linking this!
edit: and the supply trick, brilliant :D
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On April 15 2011 14:33 dizzy101 wrote:
Cruncher eliminated Darkforce in the NASL without too much trouble, and Darkforce has been a top zerg in EU (especially lately).
Cruncher just beat him. Nobody has been eliminated.
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I hope he crushes Cruncher. And I'm not a Cruncher hater, Mondragon is just such a BALLER!
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i don't think he can count on killing cruncher's first gateway in the actual match 
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On April 15 2011 17:11 dar0za wrote:i don't think he can count on killing cruncher's first gateway in the actual match
ya that gave him so much breathing room vs tod
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On April 15 2011 14:10 Khaldor wrote:Mondragon, as most of you probably know, has to face Cruncher on sunday in the TSL. This is why he has been training nonstop against Protoss the past few weeks and one of his trainingpartners is none other than the former WarCraft III Progamer ToD. One of their games was a really intense match on Metalopolis. As I know ToD for some years now he sent me the replay and Mondragon agreed on me casting it in english (thank you very much once again!). I hope you guy's enjoy the video and the match itself and judge for yourself if Mondragon is fit to face Cruncher on sunday in the TSL Kind regards, Khaldor PS: one or two parts of the video may take some minutes to show up in 720p. I have to leave for the airport now as I'll be at the Gadget Show in Birmingham this weekend but didn't want to leave without posting this game. Sorry for the inconvenience, as soon as YouTube processed the videos everything should be fine.
I got tingles, Thank you Khaldor!
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I didint like the game, huh.
Not trying to be negative here, but Tod had the game won like 4 minutes into second part when he destroyed natural, main, 3rd, and backed up when he saw 6-7 broodlords near Mondragons 4th ( natural at 5 o clock ) with ton of spine crawlers.
If he blinked up ( he had blink and collusus to gain vision ) it was game over. It was 139 armyr supply vs 50, almost triple the difference.
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Holy...Khaldor you sure have a tendency to find extremely epic games to cast. 10/10
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+ Show Spoiler +oh man that was such an entertaining game, I go so excited when I saw mondi do the over supply trick to get extra broodlords out, been waiting for a top player to start doing :p Really liked the way he played lol, even though he lost his main and nat it was such a nice turtle. Must say I really enjoy the games he produces, too bad he lost though
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Cruncher will still crunch him.
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"annihilated!"
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+ Show Spoiler +nice game, but two major mistakes by Mondragon which imo cost him the game:
when sacrificing your main, u should immediatly rebuild your tech (at least with ~3k/3k). Mondragon didnt even tech T2 and then lost his spawinng pool, so it took ages to get to greater spire again.
at the end he took out the gold, even it was outmined and there was no production.
so overall great game, but it hurt to see lose the zerg :/
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On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^
TSL is casted from replays so Mondragon and Cruncher have most likely played their games already and decided to give the fans a little something.
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On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^
beacause he cannot play mass broodlord vs cruncher cause he loves voidrays and broodlords would be retardet
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I'm a pretty big Cruncher fan, but I want Mondi to win as well.
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The game is not done its this sunday which is why he required permission
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wow mondi why u so good??
making a drop with an empty OV to take cannon damage.
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Thanks Kal, col.Crunchers not exatly the most skilled player out their i've watched hes stream a bunch and found all the replays i can of him and against Zerg he either 5-6gates or abuses the shit out of collossus+Vray. I think if Mondragon puts enough pressure on him hes machanics and game sence arn't all that and he'll crumbel under the pressure (i hope) best of luck with the match
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On April 15 2011 18:39 Kinshuk wrote:
The game is not done its this sunday which is why he required permission
No, TSL games are preplayed.
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I've just realised these Mondragon is in the same spot as Tyler was when he came to play in TSL2 for the last year we havent seen Mondi play in SC2 he's been at school and all that, what if he wins TSL3.This going to be so cool.
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There are still a lot of possible improvements in Mondragon's play, like retreating his overlords after a drop so he doesn't lose 10 of them for nothing after the drop is cleared.
But good game anyway.
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hmm i don't rly think that was such a great match..
ToD just played absolutely bad..especially in early game and he + Show Spoiler +
at least the 216food "trick" was funny
i mean building spinecrawlers to get broodlords is old but canceling them is a good idea
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On April 15 2011 19:38 Ohdamn wrote:hmm i don't rly think that was such a great match.. ToD just played absolutely bad..especially in early game and he + Show Spoiler +at least the 216food "trick" was funny i mean building spinecrawlers to get broodlords is old but canceling them is a good idea
You didnt notice the fact that zerg was 80 food behind and managed to come back and be in a advantage position? There are alot of good things to take from this game as a zerg player regardless.
Very nice game, I liked it alot, and it showcased the awesome strategic mind that mondragon has.
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On April 15 2011 19:38 Ohdamn wrote:hmm i don't rly think that was such a great match.. ToD just played absolutely bad..especially in early game and he + Show Spoiler +at least the 216food "trick" was funny i mean building spinecrawlers to get broodlords is old but canceling them is a good idea
ToD played bad? Really? He made a mistake in the early game, but he certainly didn't play bad
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On April 15 2011 14:15 Bear4188 wrote:Mondragon doesn't practice, he just shows up and gets lucky. + Show Spoiler +
Well this is basically what Mondi would say though, he is one sneaky customer.
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On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^
Because hes probebly played Cruncher already as the tsl is done from replays
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On April 15 2011 19:53 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 19:38 Ohdamn wrote:hmm i don't rly think that was such a great match.. ToD just played absolutely bad..especially in early game and he + Show Spoiler +at least the 216food "trick" was funny i mean building spinecrawlers to get broodlords is old but canceling them is a good idea They both made big mistakes and I'd say ToD made less than mondragon. But instead of looking at the negative things of a game, how about you try to learn by looking at the clever things they did, why do people have to be so negative about everything.
thats exactly what i did
and the only clever thing i saw was the 216food trick :o
and yes mondragon clearly made mistakes too
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ToD's game to lose but it shows that Mondragon's mechanics are still as solid as ever.
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On April 15 2011 19:38 Ohdamn wrote:hmm i don't rly think that was such a great match.. ToD just played absolutely bad..especially in early game and he + Show Spoiler +at least the 216food "trick" was funny i mean building spinecrawlers to get broodlords is old but canceling them is a good idea
Nice spoiler...
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If you don't want to be spoiled why are you reading this thread >.<
I really hope Mondragon can take down Cruncher. He's really not that good :S
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as i was a bit stalking, yes i admit it, mondragons bnet account for the last week, he was online every day, playing a lot of practice games and ladder aswell..i really hope he can deliver! some luck will maybe carry him on :D
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Incredible game, thanks for sharing!
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tod could have ended it 20 minutes earlier with 1 blink up to avoid 20 spine crawlers but oh well friendly matches
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i think spanishiwas style is better overall. mondragon used roaches for drops. banelings and speedlings are better, faster and cheaper for harrassment.
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This is the kind of zerg I want to see taking down protoss. Looks much more effective than the idra or + Show Spoiler + method
It will certainly needs adjustments for void rays, but I have faith in the dragon mon.
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lol. Supply limit? What supply limit?
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On April 15 2011 20:45 Oboeman wrote:This is the kind of zerg I want to see taking down protoss. Looks much more effective than the idra or + Show Spoiler + method It will certainly needs adjustments for void rays, but I have faith in the dragon mon.
w00t?
that's pretty mutch the EXACT same style that idra plays
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Can't wait for sunday now!
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w00t?
that's pretty mutch the EXACT same style that idra plays
Not when he lost to cruncher. If he's been doing that since then, awesome.
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On April 15 2011 21:00 Oboeman wrote:Not when he lost to cruncher. If he's been doing that since then, awesome.
well on his stream he pretty much has tw ZvP styles
one is ling/bling/infestor
and the other one is roach aggression with drops etc into corruptor/broodlord/infestor
actually pretty much every high ladder zerg is currently doing those burrow roach shenanigans
with drops and multi prom attacks to deny the 3rd
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LOOOL, ling runby training for TSL.
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LOL, loved the supply trick there. It's certainly inspiring to watch fantastic zerg play like this. The "nerd chills" I get watching his games reminds me a lot of watching Fruitdealer in the first GSL. Fantastic video - thanks Khaldor! (and of course the players!)
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The Mondi supply trick! Instant classic ;D
+ Show Spoiler +Very well played by both players, though I feel that ToD could have just build void rays earlier or just blinked up to mondis new main
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Mondi supply trick ftw, hopefully we will see more of that when Zerg hits 200 food ^^
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Dont get why Tod relied for waaaay too long on blink stalkers only. If he added a few stargates way earlier, it would have been much more easy.
GG anyways
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It's too bad we couldn't see Tyler vs Mondragon. Should be a good match on Sunday
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Hahaha it was so hilarious when he first discovered the supply trick.
"LOL I have 202 supply right now!!!" (not on purpose)
Game goes on...
3 minutes later...
"LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?"
...
"Oh well, fuck you Dissy."
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About CrunCher... though I am not impressed with his play - constantly going for void/col deathballs and 6 gating, they have such a high success rate and he executes them well. It's a very smart way to play PvZ at the moment until Zergs are able to consistently "solve" it.
About the game... it's funny the same people who complain about CrunCher's void/col deathballs are mentioning ToD should have had void rays in his deathball.
Mondi certainly made some costly mistakes, but he also did some great plays with his multi-prong attacks, drops, and "The Zerg Turtle".
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very nice game thanks a lot!
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Holy crap that was epic. Absolutely loved that game, one of the best PvZs I have ever seen. I actually screamed like a girl at some points
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this is a power play, mondragon is hoping that cruncher will see this thread somehow. I highly doubt that mondragon will use these strats in the TSL games.
edit; i guess the games have already been played? so nevermind O.o
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Why would you bother fighting toss at 200 vs 200 when you can just fight him 216 vs 200 ^^
Awesome vod, thanks Khaldor!
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Ok, i just jumped through it but i can say that this game was AWESOME! I hope mondi wins tsl :>
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those germans are pretty awesome O_o
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On April 15 2011 21:38 iNfeRnaL wrote:
Hahaha it was so hilarious when he first discovered the supply trick.
"LOL I have 202 supply right now!!!" (not on purpose)
Game goes on...
3 minutes later...
"LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?"
...
"Oh well, fuck you Dissy."
LOL xD!
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On April 15 2011 21:38 iNfeRnaL wrote:
Hahaha it was so hilarious when he first discovered the supply trick.
"LOL I have 202 supply right now!!!" (not on purpose)
Game goes on...
3 minutes later...
"LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?"
...
"Oh well, fuck you Dissy."
LOL, nice quote :D
Some of the biggest discoveries are made by accident :D
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This was a tough match to watch as a Mondragon fan. Without playing particularly well, ToD exposed many of Mondragon's weaknesses, and a better player would have decimated Mondragon in many of the situations where the marginals was on this side in this match. I can see how people would find the match entertaining, but as a perfectionist, both players making so many mistakes really detracts from the experience. For me, once players get too wasteful and lack good control of their play, the game loses a bit of meaning for me. Nonetheless, it was worth it, for seeing fights and situations that you don't normally see, as well as seeing Mondragon's clever mind-games, multi-pronged attacks and chess-like trade-offs, showing no despair and keeping some clever late-game plans at hand.
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Why did he do the trick with evolution chambers? Spore crawlers only cost 75 minerals and are easier to 'spam' all over the creep by virtue of their size. It was after his base was destroyed, so it might be he didn't have an evolution chamber at that point, I guess.
I also think ToD thought he probably had the game won by containing the zerg to three bases with his deathball, but he probably underestimated the amount of minerals/gas Mondragon had banked after having had 100+ drones and 5+ bases.
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Wow I can't believe the Protoss won that game after he got his entire army decimated near the gold expo..very weird game in my eyes
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On April 15 2011 22:21 Asjo wrote:
This was a tough match to watch as a Mondragon fan. Without playing particularly well, ToD exposed many of Mondragon's weaknesses, and a better player would have decimated Mondragon in many of the situations where the marginals was on this side in this match. I can see how people would find the match entertaining, but as a perfectionist, both players making so many mistakes really detracts from the experience. For me, once players get too wasteful and lack good control of their play, the game loses a bit of meaning for me. Nonetheless, it was worth it, for seeing fights and situations that you don't normally see, as well as seeing Mondragon's clever mind-games, multi-pronged attacks and chess-like trade-offs, showing no despair and keeping some clever late-game plans at hand.
remember this was one practice match among many many many other matches,I'm least worried.
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Holy shit that supply trick never ever occurred to me. Didn't think it was possible to go over 200 supply. Unfortunately that's exactly the kinda thing I can see Blizz patching out.
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So mondragons play relies on not being attacked before you get 3 or 4 bases up, gettin 120 drones in the process. While having the psychic ability that the protoss won't go for blink even though he got a twilight council. Then assuming that the protoss won't split his army up effectively to deal with the drops faster. After that having hidden expansions to keep him in the game.
Sounds pretty solid.
I'm going to fear for him against cruncher if he plays like that vs him. Although I do not like crunchers play one bit he is better than that to kill off mondragon easily. In that game khaldor casted the protoss simply got lazy on expanding after he got a third, and got lazy by seeing broodlords and spinecrawlers defending one of his biggest vunerablilities and not going for voidrays.
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On April 15 2011 22:28 Floydian wrote:
Holy shit that supply trick never ever occurred to me. Didn't think it was possible to go over 200 supply. Unfortunately that's exactly the kinda thing I can see Blizz patching out.
It's been know like forever so I doubt blizzard will patch it. And it's not really much different from a terran suiciding his scvs late game when he's maxed, only using mules.
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Thanks for posting this;)
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nice game but I'm wondering why ToD didn't add the void rays much earlier since he had the money for that
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thanks for the cast khaldor!
BUT sorry, it was a bad game, countless mistakes by both players, by the second half of the match, while it was hella entertaining, i was scratching my head as to why i was watching this random ladder game. i strongly doubt cruncher's gonna feel anything but relief if he watches this.
as for the 216 population, that's an old trick, nothing innovative by mondragon there either.
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mondi is so sure he win ^^ whatever he says he just inside himself is sure he will 3-0 3-1 cruncher
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I find it hilarious that 3/4 of the sc2 community has no clue who Mondi actually was in BW. For all intensive purposes mondi understood SC/BW so the same should flow into SC2 which is still in that process.
More importantly Mondragon knows how to play P and T as well and that increases his knowledge base.
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It was a good game and mondragon plays zerg the way i think they should play.. waves of agression but Tod weld on and managed to win the game.
The thing i don't like is the zerg going broods on this map.. i feel it's not the best map for it since there is not much space for them to espace blink stalkers(of course those get countered by infestors but how many games did anyone see where the zerg had 20 broods+10 infestors?? this was the first for me).
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those germans are pretty awesome O_o
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On April 15 2011 22:34 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 22:28 Floydian wrote:
Holy shit that supply trick never ever occurred to me. Didn't think it was possible to go over 200 supply. Unfortunately that's exactly the kinda thing I can see Blizz patching out. It's been know like forever so I doubt blizzard will patch it. And it's not really much different from a terran suiciding his scvs late game when he's maxed, only using mules.
and even if, how should they "fix" it? maybe im missing something, but thats a normal game mechanic and i dont see a way to change it. you lose a drone when you build something and get it back if you cancel again. the only way would be to not allow building cancelation when you are maxed out but that doesnt seem right
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On April 15 2011 22:54 Enox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 22:34 nihlon wrote:On April 15 2011 22:28 Floydian wrote:
Holy shit that supply trick never ever occurred to me. Didn't think it was possible to go over 200 supply. Unfortunately that's exactly the kinda thing I can see Blizz patching out. It's been know like forever so I doubt blizzard will patch it. And it's not really much different from a terran suiciding his scvs late game when he's maxed, only using mules. and even if, how should they "fix" it? maybe im missing something, but thats a normal game mechanic and i dont see a way to change it. you lose a drone when you build something and get it back if you cancel again. the only way would be to not allow building cancelation when you are maxed out but that doesnt seem right
Only way I think of to do it consistently would be to not reduce the supply until a building finishes (which of course would make a rebalancing on a very elementary level necessary, so I doubt they would even consider it).
trick has been around since broodwar times though, I can't imagine too many situations where it is really useful compared to attacking with 200/200 army instantely instead of giving the opponent time to get more supply as well. Maybe in some odd situations where you have a P/T on 200/200 yet still playing defensively.
In ZvZ which makes it to the lategame it might be somewhat useful though.
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Now that was a game!!!
Brilliant play by Mondragon, trying to think of new ways to overcome the deathball.
If only Protoss was forced to play as inventively as Zerg... imagine how good this game to be.
Good casting too... my only constructive criticism would be to use the word "annihilate" less.
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interesting game the evo trick at the end was nice, if you do this in ladder before it will be common knowledge and people are watching the replay to see why they have lost you will get alot of pms xD.
The upgrades won the game i would say. who needs range for colossi anyway waste of 200/200 XD.
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FUCKING AWSOME! Watch it right now! 0o
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thats what winners do, practice. losers, like idra, whine.
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Jesus Mondi pulled out every trick in the book and still lost. That was a crazy game, he lost like 10k more resources of units and was in still in at that point. That is very impressive!
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On April 15 2011 23:39 shaman6ix wrote:
thats what winners do, practice. losers, like idra, whine.
I love it when people say that. I'm sure Idra never practices, he probably spends his days whining in front of the mirror, in anticipation of his next interview (yes I know, don't feed the troll...)
Anyway it was an entertaining game for a ZvP, lots of mistakes on both parts but it went back and forth. I really + Show Spoiler + thought Mondragon would win, both when Tod lost his first gate, and when broodlords were destroying everything
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Mondi is very good in crisis management that's what makes him a great player but he made a very curucial error in decision making towards the end of the game. Voids would be expected but not atacking protoss just for waiting 2-3 extra lords is not something you should do when you already have reasonable amount of them as leftovers of big battle. Game is quite good though, he is a beast.
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Entertaining, but one of those games that makes you wonder what the f* are they doing. Neat supply trick though.
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They don't need to fix over supply. Terran can sacrifice SCV's and trade them in for mules. Zerg can over supply and Protoss can build 10000000 gateways, as soon as they lose supply something instantly gets warped in.
Reach race has it's own way of getting "above" the supply cap, some more obvious than others.
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I'm really curious... + Show Spoiler +why Mondragon didn't push with the spines in addition to his broodlord fleet at his final push. The BL's themselves are slow so it's not like it'd slow the push that much.
Why make/cancel 12 evos when you can make a bunch of spines and have them sitting under your broodlords? I think broodlord/infestor/crawler is gonna be my late game ZvP push from now on and I'll use the rest of my army population to drop/harass/nydus.
Since spines count as buildings a base race situation isn't that attractive because the Z can just pull everything to the spines and defend that or use it all to defend rebuilding a hatch.
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On April 15 2011 23:46 TRod wrote:
Jesus Mondi pulled out every trick in the book and still lost. That was a crazy game, he lost like 10k more resources of units and was in still in at that point. That is very impressive!
That is exactly his play: Bank as much money in the beginning as possible by setting up base after base and then make wave after wave in different places. This way it doesn't matter that much, if you lose one or two bases, because you can live off your initial economic advantage
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ToD is such a joke of a player.
1) The 10th probe started with 75 minerals. (too late)
2) Close_air_scouting_probe was hilarious.
3) After i saw these two i closed the game, so yeah... no more.
P.S. Stop the useless SC2 hyping with such players as ToD.
User was banned for this post.
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On April 16 2011 00:19 SpearThruster wrote:
ToD is such a joke of a player.
1) The 10th probe started with 75 minerals. (too late)
2) Close_air_scouting_probe was hilarious.
3) After i saw these two i closed the game, so yeah... no more.
P.S. Stop the useless SC2 hyping with such players as ToD.
And I'm sure you're so much better than Mondi's practice partner bro.
OT: Great game, very entertaining, and mondi and his roaches <3 haha, such good play but some mistakes yeah ]= I'm sure he'll do fine vs CrunCher =D
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Thank you OP for doing this. Will watch it later today. I think Mondragon accept to release the reps because his match vs Cruncher is actually over. TSL is casted from replays.
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On April 16 2011 00:19 SpearThruster wrote:
ToD is such a joke of a player.
1) The 10th probe started with 75 minerals. (too late)
2) Close_air_scouting_probe was hilarious.
3) After i saw these two i closed the game, so yeah... no more.
P.S. Stop the useless SC2 hyping with such players as ToD.
He's terrible, that's why he regularly beats top Europeans such as Naniwa and Morrow.
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On April 16 2011 00:19 SpearThruster wrote:
ToD is such a joke of a player.
1) The 10th probe started with 75 minerals. (too late)
2) Close_air_scouting_probe was hilarious.
3) After i saw these two i closed the game, so yeah... no more.
P.S. Stop the useless SC2 hyping with such players as ToD.
You're such a joke of a poster
ToD is a verry humble SC2 player, aswel as a wonderful person. Actually he's quite strong already, and you missed an entertaining game here sir.
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On April 16 2011 00:12 Logo wrote:I'm really curious... + Show Spoiler +why Mondragon didn't push with the spines in addition to his broodlord fleet at his final push. The BL's themselves are slow so it's not like it'd slow the push that much.
Why make/cancel 12 evos when you can make a bunch of spines and have them sitting under your broodlords? I think broodlord/infestor/crawler is gonna be my late game ZvP push from now on and I'll use the rest of my army population to drop/harass/nydus.
Since spines count as buildings a base race situation isn't that attractive because the Z can just pull everything to the spines and defend that or use it all to defend rebuilding a hatch.
Also, pushing with hydralisks instead of roaches with a broodlord army is preferable IMO. Colossi AI will target the nearest ground threat, which is typically broodlings. Only stalkers will really be attacking the rest of the zerg ground army, and hydralisks deal so much more DPS than roaches, and don't take the bonus damage like roaches do for being "armored".
Mondragon could have had some better fungals, but it was an overall very well played and entertaining game.
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Mondragon, upon accepting his TSL invitation, promptly sent Nazgul an e-mail telling him to have the money ready in unmarked $20's because he was coming to collect. Cruncher, you're next.
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On April 16 2011 00:19 SpearThruster wrote:
ToD is such a joke of a player.
1) The 10th probe started with 75 minerals. (too late)
2) Close_air_scouting_probe was hilarious.
3) After i saw these two i closed the game, so yeah... no more.
P.S. Stop the useless SC2 hyping with such players as ToD.
I suggest you watch the rest of the match because it was a good one. You will mostly likely learn a thing or two. watch out what you say about khaldor's casts cuz he looks pretty intimidating...Great cast, i just subscribed.
Best of luck Mondragon, for the Swarm!
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On April 15 2011 22:28 Floydian wrote:
Holy shit that supply trick never ever occurred to me. Didn't think it was possible to go over 200 supply. Unfortunately that's exactly the kinda thing I can see Blizz patching out.
Nah people have been doing extractor tricks forever. "Clever use of ingame mechanics" imo.
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Mondragon, believe in me who believes in you!
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erm why is it called secret if its published in the same thread :§ ?
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Well, I think it's Mondy's mind games. There is no way a professional player would publish his replays before such an important tournament like TSL3. IMO he will use absolutely other strategies, while Cruncher will be expecting something similar to these ones in replay pack. And I hope it will work out for Mondy, because I'm really bored of Protoss domination.
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Why is everyone acting like TSL is played live?
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On April 16 2011 00:27 Marou wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2011 00:19 SpearThruster wrote:
ToD is such a joke of a player.
1) The 10th probe started with 75 minerals. (too late)
2) Close_air_scouting_probe was hilarious.
3) After i saw these two i closed the game, so yeah... no more.
P.S. Stop the useless SC2 hyping with such players as ToD. You're such a joke of a poster ToD is a verry humble SC2 player, aswel as a wonderful person. Actually he's quite strong already, and you missed an entertaining game here sir.
Indeed, was an entertaining game.
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amazing series and great casting!
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Wow... amazing amazing game. I feel like ToD could've ended it much sooner, but he didn't, which led to a superbly entertaining game.
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On April 16 2011 00:31 thebigdonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 22:28 Floydian wrote:
Holy shit that supply trick never ever occurred to me. Didn't think it was possible to go over 200 supply. Unfortunately that's exactly the kinda thing I can see Blizz patching out. Nah people have been doing extractor tricks forever. "Clever use of ingame mechanics" imo.
Played around 8k games of sc2 and at least 20k in bw and seen lots of reps. Never once seen anyone do it late game in the way mondragon did.
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Glad to see that, like all serious commentators, Khaldor points out the crucial information that Mondragon is unlikely to win, because Protoss is overpowered. Come on man...
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That was a very entertaining match, a little too many drops my Mondi though, he probably could of won, wp by ToD though!
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On April 15 2011 14:19 s[O]rry wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 14:12 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
Wonder why Mondragon would allow to to be released o_O. Oh well, time to watch^^ The game has probably already been played at the time of this release...
hah, I forgot that they cast from replays.
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On April 16 2011 01:02 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2011 00:31 thebigdonkey wrote:On April 15 2011 22:28 Floydian wrote:
Holy shit that supply trick never ever occurred to me. Didn't think it was possible to go over 200 supply. Unfortunately that's exactly the kinda thing I can see Blizz patching out. Nah people have been doing extractor tricks forever. "Clever use of ingame mechanics" imo. Played around 8k games of sc2 and at least 20k in bw and seen lots of reps. Never once seen anyone do it late game in the way mondragon did.
Yeah same here, I always wondered why more zergs dont do that... If I were zerg, I would do that shit all day.
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On April 16 2011 00:34 Huragius wrote:
Well, I think it's Mondy's mind games. There is no way a professional player would publish his replays before such an important tournament like TSL3. IMO he will use absolutely other strategies, while Cruncher will be expecting something similar to these ones in replay pack. And I hope it will work out for Mondy, because I'm really bored of Protoss domination.
Games already been played....
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216 supply lmao zerg players now have to stop asking for their extra supply cap
Also, protoss.... why you no void rays earlier?? -.-
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On April 16 2011 00:19 SpearThruster wrote:
ToD is such a joke of a player.
1) The 10th probe started with 75 minerals. (too late)
2) Close_air_scouting_probe was hilarious.
3) After i saw these two i closed the game, so yeah... no more.
P.S. Stop the useless SC2 hyping with such players as ToD.
User was banned for this post.
HOLY SHIT HE MADE THE PROBe 25 MINERALS TO LATE, HE MUST BE BRONZE LEAGUE OR WTF. and actually tod scouted where the overload 99% of the time goes.
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tod did make a variety of early game mistakes and seemed to get massively outplayed all early to mid game. if this is supposed to be the zerg answer to protoss death balls then i honestly don't think protoss players should be worried... at all. i like baneling bombs with infestors a lot more.
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I loved khaldor's reaction to
+ Show Spoiler +the mass evo/cancel- 'What da fuck 16 evo chambers?!'
made the entire match for me. A few quetionable decisions on both sides throughout, but certainly quite entertaining. Thanks for sharing it with us :D
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On April 16 2011 01:51 Everhate wrote:I loved khaldor's reaction to + Show Spoiler +the mass evo/cancel- 'What da fuck 16 evo chambers?!'
Haha, that was so good. He got so excited about it.
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I'd like to have the replays
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Go Cruncher go!! Screw all the haters!!!
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This remind me of a game called Starcraft! It had a player called Mondragon too! Pretty sick!
Jokes aside, this is one of the best ZvP i've seen, it even made me remember the good BW.
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this felt like a sparring matchrather than a real match.
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On April 16 2011 02:44 skipdog172 wrote:
Go Cruncher go!! Screw all the haters!!!
Who said we hate Cruncher... well, .
We just like Mondi more.
Edit: Eh, forgot the whole point of writing this.
Think about it. The matches for TSL3 for Mondi v Cruncher have probably already been played. Mondi probably wouldn't have let Khaldor cast the games otherwise, let alone... release the damn replays.
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I really want to see units lost tab of that game....
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After this game i am so thrilled for the match of mondi vs cruncher. Both should feel no pressure at all. I mean mondi is not really active and cruncher already beat his nemesis. So they both should play free of any pressure.
I mean sure a lot of people build up expectations for Mondi and Cruncher. But why the fuck should they care. ^^
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CLOSE THIS THREAD QUICK!!!!
Ok, ok I'll check it out^^
But if mondi loses I'll hold you responsible
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Tod could have just blinked into the second main and won for like 15 minutes of that game. All the spine crawlers are useless if you just ignore them
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What, Mondragon practices? This can't be real!
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German guys so beef!
NIce games
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On April 16 2011 03:54 sylverfyre wrote:
What, Mondragon practices? This can't be real!
It was probably just this one game. xD
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Smiley face please!
...
Then again, there's no way to bm Mondragon. The guy isn't bm like IdrA...
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wow that was a really interesting game. this is very reminsicent of bw style, where zerg was all over the map instead of having a deathball vs deathball fight. take note idra.
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Damn it, I was hoping Mondi could show a win. ToD didn't even go colossus/void ray. I don't think he has any chance against cruncher unless he does something completely unorthodox like he did with mass roach vs air.
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On April 16 2011 05:57 Gaius Baltar wrote:
Damn it, I was hoping Mondi could show a win. ToD didn't even go colossus/void ray. I don't think he has any chance against cruncher unless he does something completely unorthodox like he did with mass roach vs air.
In my book any showing at all before (tehnically after) a big match is a good sign.
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LOL
What a game! What a game!
Was a good ride. Thanks for the cast!
Mondi Fighting!
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On April 16 2011 03:27 DwmC_Foefen wrote:CLOSE THIS THREAD QUICK!!!! Ok, ok I'll check it out^^ But if mondi loses I'll hold you responsible
If I understand correctly, this thread was posted after the games were played.
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Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Cruncher doesn't know how to PvZ without large numbers of void rays, so I don't think we are to see a successful mass brood lord army.
I really like how Mondragon tries really hard to make his army useful at all times. You don't really see him just sitting back passively very often, his army is moving around, trying to find a weakness to exploit. Such a fun player to watch, and here's to hoping he crunches Cruncher.
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On April 15 2011 14:10 Khaldor wrote:Mondragon, as most of you probably know, has to face Cruncher on sunday in the TSL. This is why he has been training nonstop against Protoss the past few weeks and one of his trainingpartners is none other than the former WarCraft III Progamer ToD. One of their games was a really intense match on Metalopolis. As I know ToD for some years now he sent me the replay and Mondragon agreed on me casting it in english (thank you very much once again!). I hope you guy's enjoy the video and the match itself and judge for yourself if Mondragon is fit to face Cruncher on sunday in the TSL Kind regards, Khaldor PS: one or two parts of the video may take some minutes to show up in 720p. I have to leave for the airport now as I'll be at the Gadget Show in Birmingham this weekend but didn't want to leave without posting this game. Sorry for the inconvenience, as soon as YouTube processed the videos everything should be fine.
If you're implying the style played here will help him against Cruncher on a BO series perhaps not, since cruncher fits in quite a few good all ins. But I do think these matches will be good especially if there are a couple 6gate games where Mondragon can hold him off and then there is a macro game. Should be an epic series.
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This is obviously a fake, just to fool his opponent.
I predict we are going to see mass ling, infestor from mondragon.
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Fantastic, thanks Khaldor!
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Great play from Mondragon. He abuses roach burrow because toss can't have observers all over the place.
Can someone imagine Idra doing something like this? At least, figuring it out on his on? Nope, he just knows how to make a lot of units and then complain when they get killed easily.
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On April 16 2011 09:24 AndAgain wrote:
Great play from Mondragon. He abuses roach burrow because toss can't have observers all over the place.
Can someone imagine Idra doing something like this? At least, figuring it out on his on? Nope, he just knows how to make a lot of units and then complain when they get killed easily.
Pity you are wrong. He has been using and abusing roach burrow and drops/nydus play quite a bit for past couple weeks.
It's pretty sad you had to use Mondi to try and trash someone else.
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On April 16 2011 06:37 Jakalo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2011 05:57 Gaius Baltar wrote:
Damn it, I was hoping Mondi could show a win. ToD didn't even go colossus/void ray. I don't think he has any chance against cruncher unless he does something completely unorthodox like he did with mass roach vs air. In my book any showing at all before (tehnically after) a big match is a good sign.
Well said. I like the way you think. Still, it's a tall order! @_@
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Great game, well casted.
10 infestor, 19 broodlord army? Thats going to haunt my dreams.
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It was pretty interesting but ToD should've switched to stargate tech so much earlier; around when he saw mass spine crawlers + broodlords. He had a good army and would've done fine if he went for it. Instead he waited 10 minutes and made templar tech first as well, which I felt was not really necessary even if feedback helped in the end.
Mondragon lost half his broodlords at one point trying to be sneaky with them and hitting an expansion, bad choice even if he would've managed to save more IMO just because of how open that area is.
Overall, good entertainment value but not an amazing game in terms of decision making.
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I liked transition into 16 evo chambers.
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Hahaha Mondragon is seriously awesome.
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Too bad as soon as ToD remembered protoss have stargate the game was over ^^
Great watch though!
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Very entertaining game indeed.
Wasn't really the BEST play I've seen out of either player, that's for sure, but since there were lots of mistakes on both sides it turned out to be a really interesting match.
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Well its not secret anymore... maybe he did this to fake him out... or he's going to pull a false-positive and bank on the fact he will think its to fake and do it anyway?
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On April 16 2011 05:02 da_head wrote:
wow that was a really interesting game. this is very reminsicent of bw style, where zerg was all over the map instead of having a deathball vs deathball fight. take note idra.
Well that game just explains why zergs do not use that offen. Mondragon was harassing protoss player all game with drops and burrow and then toss just comes and straight up kills everything zerg has.
Those small harassments do not stop protoss army from building up to the point where it's just impossible to kill. I've seen many times pro zerg players do those types of drop harassment but usually they die when toss decides to move into zerg's main and clean everything.
That's why most of zerg players, Idra including, prefers to fight toss army head on, because that way you are at least killing his army.
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Don't worry guys, Mondi will never find out as he doesn't read/write on sites like TL. He says its a waste of time :/
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On April 17 2011 00:49 eNbee wrote:
Too bad as soon as ToD remembered protoss have stargate the game was over ^^
Great watch though!
Well its kinda hard to build stargate units when you have a perfectly useful 200/200 blink stalker deathball that you can't throw away just for free.
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Nice casting
Too bad it didn't work out for Mondi =(
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Mondragon supply trick was amazing! If only he could of won.
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EPT
