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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
the ironic part is some of you can't help but be jerks when "suggesting" some "tips" but then flame me for calling you out on it 
tons of casters (read: ALL) use incorrect words or mispronounce words regularly.. this isn't some unique issue with gretorp or myself. None of you have tried casting in front of 10's of thousands of people and tried to sound both intelligent and engaging so as to entertain an incredibly fickle and critical audience. The result is nervous ticks like latching on to a word (correct or incorrect). Berrating the people about it doesn't actually help. Just makes you an asshole.
Gretorp and I (as well as every other caster) don't do it on purpose. So be constructive and kind. If you can't then be a jerk I guess but just so we are clear, you ARE being a jerk when you call for a caster to get fired for using the word "problematic" too much etc.
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On May 13 2011 03:49 IPA wrote:
I am really serious when I say we need to get Gretorp (and to a lesser extent, iNcontroL) a thesaurus. Their overuse (and, often, complete misuse) of words, phrases and stock descriptions is borderline enraging. If you believe you have a prodigious vocabulary and feel confident enough to use these words during your professional life, please make sure they are actually being used correctly.
It's just really embarrassing.
I like NASL very much, the games have been fantastic. Having IdrA guestcast just reminded me how great it would be if they restructured their current booth with new/fresh/articulate casters.
It's not just the lack of vocabulary, but the consistent misuse of words. There are actually moments where Gretorp will use a word that implies the exact opposite of what he meant. It is genuinely confusing and distracting.
The only real solutions to improving your vocabulary and phrasing is to read much more -- not just analysis related to SC2 but other sports, books, novels -- as well as cast many more games.
Writing about SC2, or explaining your analysis or what happened in a game in articles or essays would also help. It will exercise your mind and give you an prepared narrative or commentary to draw from if a similar situation ever arises during a broadcast.
People often wonder how some people be can be so articulate about a random subject or idea. It's probably because they wrote about it or scribbled down some ideas related to it, 6 months ago.
Edit: InControl and Gretorp, I hope you find the above suggestions constructive, and not an attempt to troll anybody. You guys are consistently improving, and as you've noted, ALL commmentators have room to improve.
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Can you guys stop streaming so many games? It's completely killing my productivity at work.
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since incontrol might be reading this I have a question, is there anywhere that lists the songs played during the breaks? There were a few I really liked but have no clue the names, I think the band name was mentioned during one of the casts but I can't remember it now  But yeah would be awesome if in the breaks along with the "coming up next" and "back in..." would also show the song name
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I really don't feel that the Idra Gretorp combo works at all, they both attempt to fill the same analytical role but imo Idra is significantly better and so just sits there reiterating everything Idra says, I think an Idra Incontrol combo would work out significantly better.
Edit: Also the music played after every gg is incredibly annoying, loud, and just interrupts the casters constantly.
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Sort out the VODS would be a huge help - look at how IGN did their vods, and learn from that.
The highlights are a good start, but the fact that you don't highlight all the games, and sometimes even the highlights cut out portions of the matches is pretty bad.
The huge vods are also very annoying, whoever the editor is, they're doing quite a poor job, take the latest vod, Week 5 D1 - first 15 minutes of the TLO game are gone, the matches are all out of order, one set of matches is completely missing, and the others are repeated throughout the vod.
Makes it extremely annoying if you want to watch it later (for instance i'm in England, so it's a little hard to watch live) and it's just an exercise in frustration, especially since justin tv vods have extremely slow loading times for me for some reason.
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Incontrol and idra do seem to have a really nice chemistry with alot of banter between them, so i personally would love to see them as a casting duo in NASL.
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On May 13 2011 04:05 iNcontroL wrote:the ironic part is some of you can't help but be jerks when "suggesting" some "tips" but then flame me for calling you out on it tons of casters (read: ALL) use incorrect words or mispronounce words regularly.. this isn't some unique issue with gretorp or myself. None of you have tried casting in front of 10's of thousands of people and tried to sound both intelligent and engaging so as to entertain an incredibly fickle and critical audience. The result is nervous ticks like latching on to a word (correct or incorrect). Berrating the people about it doesn't actually help. Just makes you an asshole. Gretorp and I (as well as every other caster) don't do it on purpose. So be constructive and kind. If you can't then be a jerk I guess but just so we are clear, you ARE being a jerk when you call for a caster to get fired for using the word "problematic" too much etc.
It's hard to be diplomatic with criticism. Unfortunately, the consistent misuse of words is a major problem with your production. The NASL has been amazing -- I will be a paying customer for as long as this league exists -- but I do feel it necessary to bring up an issue that actively detracts from the viewing experience. I realize it might take time to fix but it is absolutely grating -- it deserves attention so that improvements can be made.
Best of luck. I certainly appreciate your hard work.
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One tip I would give NASL would be better sound quality and better music during intervals between matches. In my opinion, the music you're currently using is corny-ish.
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Holy crap. This community will complain about everything and anything. Seriously, if its not what the casters are wearing its how they pronounce words. Seriously? Some people need to grow up.
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Calgary25990 Posts
On May 13 2011 04:05 iNcontroL wrote:the ironic part is some of you can't help but be jerks when "suggesting" some "tips" but then flame me for calling you out on it tons of casters (read: ALL) use incorrect words or mispronounce words regularly.. this isn't some unique issue with gretorp or myself. None of you have tried casting in front of 10's of thousands of people and tried to sound both intelligent and engaging so as to entertain an incredibly fickle and critical audience. The result is nervous ticks like latching on to a word (correct or incorrect). Berrating the people about it doesn't actually help. Just makes you an asshole. Gretorp and I (as well as every other caster) don't do it on purpose. So be constructive and kind. If you can't then be a jerk I guess but just so we are clear, you ARE being a jerk when you call for a caster to get fired for using the word "problematic" too much etc.
Yes, a lot of people have been harsh. Yes, all casters misuse words often; however, I feel like you and Gretorp misuse them more often than anyone else I've heard. So I think the criticism is valid.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On May 13 2011 03:51 Ashby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 14:09 Noelani wrote:
Tuned into the NASL tonight to see IdrA. I figured by now the NASL would've solved most of their initial problems, as I had heard it's gotten better. Sadly, I was mistaken, and while I appreciated the opportunity to learn from IdrA, the poor production quality just drives me nuts.
Honestly, I would buy the pass, if they'd spend my $25 to send Gretorp to a dialect coach for an hour to work on his EXSHHHHTREMELY poor speech. I agree And he NEEDS to stop saying PROBLEMATIC! WOW Gretorp makes me angry more than any other starcraft commentator.
I think he said it like 50 times in 2 mins during game 2 of rainbow vs moon
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
you missed a good portion of the intent behind my post chill
I'm not arguing criticism is invalid when directed at us simply because other people do it. I am arguing that the tone/way people criticize over issues spread throughout the community can be construed as less than constructive because they are being jerks about it.
thanks though, it'd be bad if other people read my post as "don't ever criticize us for things other people do."
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
while we are on the subject chill
It's xel NAH GUH not xel NAY GUH
^_^
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Sometimes the video cuts out to the 'promo' too soon, especially at the end of games, so the caster gets cutoff mid-sentence, which is pretty understandable from the editor pov, but it is a bit awkward for the viewer. Maybe an idea to fade-out the sound at the end of games?
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The criticism is certainly valid, it's one thing to misspeak, it's another to consistently betray a lack of understanding of a word you are constantly using. I actually don't think Incontrol does this, he will use a homonym then often correct himself. That's a slip, it's not a error of meaning entirely. Gretorp on the other hand continues to return to the same words and uses them with the same incorrect usage again and again. It does grate on some of us, perhaps others don't care. There is a simple disciplined fix, even though it's habitual and thus difficult to eradicate.
The following words are consistently and grossly misused: girth, relativity, scale, behooves, transpose, cumbersome. We aren't talking about word choice here, we are talking about using the word in a way that is wholly inappropriate.
I can probably think of more but the point is to just address the most grating ones. A caster in the end relies upon word usage. We see errors all over the place by casters, and we hear errors in all conversational English all the time, so it's not a matter of perfection.
My intention is not to be mean spirited, I enjoy the NASL immensely, and I enjoy much of the commentary. It has been amazing having Idra on as well, and this is something that the NASL can do that the GSL cannot, as polished as they are. There's just more flexibility there, and that's great.
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Gretorp is certainly the weaker link whether it be casting with Incontrol or now, with Idra. His style of casting, using rough broad-sweeping statements, feels like hes saying stuff to fill air time rather than bring across a valid point. Its not play by play ala Husky nor is it analysis-like. Its a weird bastardization that leaves me hoping someone else takes his place.
Or, at least allow Idra more time to talk. I really want to hear what Idra has to say and I dont feel he has enough talk time so to speak.
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Make a New graphic about the broadcast agenda for america and Europe so I can put that in the LR threads?
I think it was very very interesting to watch the matches that had zerg in it yesterday when idra was casting. I think (I know its probably impossible to do this) it would be best if you had race specific casters. Gretorp is a good terran caster inc is a very good protoss caster and Idra Is probably the most zergiest zerg caster I've seen. His interview last week with his eyes really put fear into my Protoss blood. I feel he is watching me as I sleep with them and I think that is a very good quality for a zerg caster.
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I am really annoyed by how closeup the camera is in the studio.. I want waaay more air on the sides of the commentators ...its way to much zoomed in .... it will look so much more professional and estetically soothing , if u fix that.
Been alot of good improvements though since it started, keep up the good work.
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EPT
