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On April 11 2011 18:57 justdweezil wrote:
How does this guy ZvT without Banelings/Zerglings/Infestors? Apparently without Mutalisks. Or maybe he goes Mutalisk/Roach? What about ZvZ? I guess we'll see as he plays more in the TSL.
He says they are worse than their bw counterpart and that he doesn't like them. He isn't saying he never uses them.
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I completely agree with Mondragon.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51626 Posts
On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play.
its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part.
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Nice to see an interview that tells it like it is for once. Mondragon always gave us entertaining and fun to watch BW matches.
Respect to a great player and I hope he continues to be successful in life and Starcraft.
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On April 11 2011 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play. its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part.
No, Day9 and Tyler said the game is balanced last SoTG. Think you're wrong.
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On April 11 2011 19:21 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play. its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part. No, Day9 and Tyler said the game is balanced last SoTG. Think you're wrong.
Ehum, I don't want to get in to a balance discussion so I will just stick to commenting your "sources". Day9 will more or less never say anything is imbalanced and instead look for ways to go around the problem with adaptive builds etc. Tyler is playing protoss, not saying that completely blocks his judgment but he has a different take on it. Also overall, none of them can say any "truths" about balance, the game is developing, things we struggle with today might be solved tomorrow.
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On April 11 2011 19:21 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play. its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part. No, Day9 and Tyler said the game is balanced last SoTG. Think you're wrong. You mean they completely ignored idra's statements yeah zerg is balanced.
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So he doesnt like banelings or zerglings but instead favours the roach?
I really don't agree with that statement -.- and I can see why ZvZ and ZvP is his favourite match up then.
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On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play.
What are you talking about? He didn't go out of his way to complain, he was asked to make direction comparisons. Asking what a Zerg feels about Zerglings is like asking what Protoss feel about Warp-prisms.
The one question where he really did have a chance to complain, (the one about dealing with Protoss maxed army), he didn't
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On April 11 2011 19:34 Chaosvuistje wrote:
So he doesnt like banelings or zerglings but instead favours the roach?
I really don't agree with that statement -.- and I can see why ZvZ and ZvP is his favourite match up then.
If you look at broodwar zerglings, you will understand why he thinks zerglings in sc2 are awful.
(hot tip: because they are)
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51626 Posts
On April 11 2011 19:21 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play. its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part. No, Day9 and Tyler said the game is balanced last SoTG. Think you're wrong.
I'm not arguing balance,I'm arguing that strategically zergs seem lost on where they are going wrong against protoss and terran.
BW zerglings are manlier than SC2 zerglings,and they bleed real blood.
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I've been working on a 1.5 mod and playing with some other masters players and this is what I found.
Defilers are still difficult to use with smart cast, unlike high templar. I don't know why, but I think its because you have only 2 defilers anyway so its not that much different, concentrating on consume and swarm still takes a lot of effort, any more defilers and you don't have a good enough ground army.
And holy hell I much prefer lurkers for offense/defense than banelings in SC2. You can take out so many more units with good lurker control than with banelings, not only that but defilers and lurkers can control areas, which is very important for zerg macro play. It also balances mule. Banelings are much more of a niche unit, and I think that's part of the problem.
Also thanks for the interview! I'm glad there are still progamers willing to voice their own opinion.
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On April 11 2011 19:21 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play. its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part. No, Day9 and Tyler said the game is balanced last SoTG. Think you're wrong.
you are being sarcastic right..? i seriously can't tell.
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On April 11 2011 20:43 emecee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 19:21 Essentia wrote:On April 11 2011 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play. its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part. No, Day9 and Tyler said the game is balanced last SoTG. Think you're wrong. you are being sarcastic right..? i seriously can't tell.
Lol. Pretty easy to tell that he is = =...
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Lol, funny questions and funny answers, like 
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Complaining about the race design =/= complaining about balance
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On April 11 2011 20:45 Flaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 20:43 emecee wrote:On April 11 2011 19:21 Essentia wrote:On April 11 2011 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play. its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part. No, Day9 and Tyler said the game is balanced last SoTG. Think you're wrong. you are being sarcastic right..? i seriously can't tell. Lol. Pretty easy to tell that he is = =...
No I'm being 100 percent serious. On page 687 of the Official State of the Game Podcast Thread, Tyler says "We don't think the game is imbalanced. I don't think we saw a way to make a productive discussion out of it so we just kinda avoided it..."
So they clearly think the game is perfectly balanced.
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On April 11 2011 23:12 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 20:45 Flaunt wrote:On April 11 2011 20:43 emecee wrote:On April 11 2011 19:21 Essentia wrote:On April 11 2011 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:On April 11 2011 19:01 Essentia wrote:
Wow it's such a weird coincidence that almost ALL zerg players have personalities about complaining about the game/race they play. its not a coincidence.Zerg have it tough for the most part. No, Day9 and Tyler said the game is balanced last SoTG. Think you're wrong. you are being sarcastic right..? i seriously can't tell. Lol. Pretty easy to tell that he is = =... No I'm being 100 percent serious. On page 687 of the Official State of the Game Podcast Thread, Tyler says " We don't think the game is imbalanced. I don't think we saw a way to make a productive discussion out of it so we just kinda avoided it..." So they clearly think the game is perfectly balanced.
Yeah except balance has nothing to do with mondragon's complaints.
Zerglings are way more fun to use in BW, because units don't clump together, and buildings are harder to wall. In BW you don't just A-move with lings, often you cut through armies with plain move and then at a critical point you will actually start attacking while getting surrounds by controlling groups of lings separately to do the most damage.
Lurkers same deal, splitting banelings pfft. Try move lurker, bait bio ball, burrow lurker, attack with lings, move lings back, leap frog lurker, attack with lings, fake unburrow, quick burrow again, bio ball dead. (Yeah, July was pimp back in the day)
Or hold-fire lurker, wait for expansion to float across, kill scvs.
Or hold-fire stacked lurkers in choke, lift one lurker and burrow it in the stack (so it looks like 1 lurker when terran scans). Terran stims, moves in, and his entire army insta-gibbed, without losing a single lurker. (Happened in Flash vs Jaedong game)
Defilers, same deal. Saviors clutch dark swarm/plague, omg.
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On April 11 2011 06:57 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:52 Skamtet wrote:
I like how he says that Infestors are useless... compared to defilers they are. i understand that they had to take them out. with smart casting they would be incredibly powerful and super hard to balance. add that there is no vessel (which again would be super hard to balance irradiate) and defilers are just too strong for sc2. its sad but from bw to sc2 most interesting units got taken out in favor of "aclick" units like the collosus,baneling etc
Saying that they would be impossible to balance is maybe going a little bit too far. They kept HT didn't they?
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EPT
