EPTYou should also mention that it takes about 60 seconds for an ultralisk to hatch, leaving you totally undefended for a full minute.
But I thought it's common knowledge that Zerg T3 is the worst in the game.
A Quantitative Analysis of the Ultralisk - Page 4
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
You should also mention that it takes about 60 seconds for an ultralisk to hatch, leaving you totally undefended for a full minute. But I thought it's common knowledge that Zerg T3 is the worst in the game. | ||
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limeaR
Finland22 Posts
On April 02 2011 16:34 Crushgroove wrote: the best way to remax is to make enough ultras to bring yourself down to a reasonable amount of money, then continue remaxing with more money effecient units after the larva efficiency issue has been addressed. From my experience, when I remax with ultras, suddenly my opponent gets a chance to come back in the game. No math needed. They also take 5 years to build. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Renzin
Australia75 Posts
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On April 02 2011 17:02 Alpina wrote: Worst thing about ultras is that they take forever to kill a single zealot - 10 attacks to kill a zealot that's super crazy. nah the worst thing about ultras is the build time. if they made in 40 seconds or 45 seconds they would be pretty damn good at timed switched, they are just a tad slow to be fearsome. now theyy are just a snowball unit similar to tanks. | ||
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kegelflex
United States38 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
Ultra's weakness is speed and size. I can't think of a reason to build them instead of broodlords unless playing protoss. But don't feel bad we have worthless carriers. | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
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DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
Other than that its about as good as a melee unit gets in this game, I mean there's only so much they can do, its a really limited unit. Needs more darkswarm. | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
Link here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203377 | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
You are ignoring important statistics like splash damage (which is kind of signficant, even if the splash was nerfed as hard as it was). You are also ignoring speed, which for zerg is super important. No other unit is as fast as the Ultralisk in comparison to its power. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 02 2011 16:06 VorcePA wrote: The only reason ultralisks were viable in brood war was because of dark swarm. Terran's infantry has received a boost to both mobility and damage, and dark swarm was taken away from zerg. Same applies to protoss. Dragoons raaaaaaped ultralisks cost for cost, but dark swarm tipped that scale way, way back in to the ultralisk's favor. In SC2, marauders, tanks, and marines all do a pretty good job on their own taking care of ultras, and do an even better job when they're mixed together. The same applies to protoss. Protoss may have lost the reaver, which were very strong vs ultralisks, but they still have immortals, dark templars, archons, colossus, void rays, and to a lesser extent: stalkers (made slightly more viable with blink micro). Ultralisks never were a real tank-y unit. They were just big and had a decent number of hitpoints, but you obviously couldn't mass them in the same way you could hydras or zerglings because of their food cost. It was their combination with dark swarm that made them a huge threat because it then took a very long time to kill them, or you had to use specialized units which you may not have amassed enough of, and their damage was really good. I would say the role of Ultralisk in BW is way different to SC2 and that's not because of Dark Swarm. In BW Zerglings/Cracklings were actually really potent dpsers and ultras were there to tank for these sick damage dealers. In SC2 lings really aren't heavy damage dealers so a tanky unit for them would be very silly. Thus the ultralisk has shifted to a dpsers but a big fat semi slow melee unit is exactly the best kind of unit for dps purposes. So it's a bit of an iffy unit. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
I would say the role of Ultralisk in BW is way different to SC2 and that's not because of Dark Swarm. In BW Zerglings/Cracklings were actually really potent dpsers and ultras were there to tank for these sick damage dealers. In SC2 lings really aren't heavy damage dealers so a tanky unit for them would be very silly. Thus the ultralisk has shifted to a dpsers but a big fat semi slow melee unit is exactly the best kind of unit for dps purposes. So it's a bit of an iffy unit. Ling dps for cost is still easily the best in the game. The only difference is, now units naturally clump, which means fewer lings can attack at any one time. Still, Ultra splash might help counteract that by forcing people to spread. Its just that the "kill Ultra" specialized units are so damned good. | ||
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Gara
Canada435 Posts
It’s here that quantitative analysis hits its limit. Siege Tanks and Colossi kill Zerglings and Zealots by the dozen, but I haven’t found a way to reflect that in the unit’s durability stats. And the Ultralisk itself does splash damage to units it attacks. Again, I don’t know how to add that. How many extra units are affected on average? Until I can know that, I can’t really do anything about it. The proper way to do this sort of analysis is probably some sort of "time-to-die" measurement using a standardized level of DPS. That would probably better reflect how durable Ultralisks are. | ||
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Honeybadger
United States821 Posts
Ultras aren't "undermade" because they're bad, it's because the metagame hasn't been figured out enough for zerg to need, or even effectively, transition and techswitch, which was their greatest asset in BW. It'll happen. Start talking about strategies for transitioning into ultras in a way where your opponent won't be ready for it. | ||
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Mr_Kyo
United States269 Posts
Splash damage and larger size (sort of defense vs splash) add value to a unit. That's why marines are so good according to your model (because their small size reduce their value). This post is about as meaningful as just comparing unit's hp to one another. | ||
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JonoLith
6 Posts
Typically the current zerg makeup against the Protoss deathball is Zergling/muta or Roach/Hydralisk, and the zerg gets rolled. The future of ZvP is Infestors/Banelings/zerglings/Ultralisks. Just get a splash of banelings and that will annihilate zealots, four infestors will pin down blink stalkers, and ultralisks will rip into the stalkers and colossi while zerglings just dps the hell out of everything. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On April 30 2011 23:50 JonoLith wrote: I have a theory about the role of Ultralisks. At this stage in the game zerg is having a massive problem with the Protoss deathball. Zealots/Stalkers/Collosi are just murdering zerg all over the place, and yet zerg insist on staying away from the ultralisk like it's the plague. We see pros going broodlords, and then getting blink stalkered and gg'd immediately. Typically the current zerg makeup against the Protoss deathball is Zergling/muta or Roach/Hydralisk, and the zerg gets rolled. The future of ZvP is Infestors/Banelings/zerglings/Ultralisks. Just get a splash of banelings and that will annihilate zealots, four infestors will pin down blink stalkers, and ultralisks will rip into the stalkers and colossi while zerglings just dps the hell out of everything. Ultras does not work at ZvP, unless you already won a battle. Reasons: 1. You need very good upgrades on them. And usually zerg upgrade path is missile/armor upgrades. 2. They take forever to build, thus you can't really reinforce with them, unless you already won first battle, but if that happens you pretty much won no matter what you reinforce with. Imagine attacking with fresh 50 roaches you just made or 8 ultras who will take twice as long to hatch, which means toss army going to be much stronger. 3. Protoss has very simple way of dealing with ultras: just zealots and immortals are perfect against ultras, and those units are easily available in their tech already. 4. Voids do bonus damage to ultras. 5. And the last reason is that half of your ultras are already dead before they reach toss deathball. | ||
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loveeholicce
Korea (South)785 Posts
In ZvP though, I'd say ultras are completely useless unless the toss goes stalker collosus and you can somehow tech to ultras, spawn a bunch, and kill his army before he makes zealots and immortals. | ||
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