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On March 09 2011 03:22 gogogadgetflow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 01:37 TheTenthDoc wrote:On March 09 2011 01:15 gogogadgetflow wrote:On March 09 2011 01:11 TheTenthDoc wrote:On March 09 2011 01:05 gogogadgetflow wrote:
I don't know why people are having a problem with this. The video told me that it would be ideal if video games returned to emphasizing gameplay over story, graphics, and other "consumerability" factors, and I think most of us at this elitist gaming website would agree. It also said that people uninterested in being competitive shouldn't wag their fingers at people who dedicate their life to gaming and I think most of us would agree with that as well. Maybe Torte just doesn't like the guys accent? I just hate the use of the term gameplay. Link to why: http://insomnia.ac/commentary/gameplay/. Things like better and more intuitive controls add to "consumerability" and also improve games. The OP's summary's use of "gameplay" seems to be a camouflaged use of the word "difficulty." At least come out and say you're lamenting the loss of the skill gap in gaming these days. Seemed to me that he was talking about difficulty, variety, and a rewarding experience. For me those things are the key components of games. Intuitive controls are nice but like graphics and story they are secondary to the key components. Then he should just say that he perceives those as the critical components of game design, rather than lumping them together under some nebulous umbrella of "gameplay." The concepts themselves are also far less clear-cut-take your example of variety and a rewarding experience. Story, graphics, and controls all play a critical role in making those components of a game better. Story is, in fact, one of oldest ways to make a player feel more rewarded! In Super Mario World, the reason the player doesn't "stop" when finishing a level is because the princess is an another castle. Different people enjoy different aspects of different media. Saying that a given medium is in your opinion worse is okay, but saying the design is suffering because it doesn't is shortsighted at best. I get that for some people it's different but for me it's not at all rewarding to save a fictional princess. - the reason I keep playing Super Mario World when the princess is in another castle has nothing to do with saving the princess. It is because it has good elements of gameplay: by which I mean successive levels will push skills I have gained earlier in the game to new, higher limits. If I fail the last level a hundred times the reward isn't saving the princess, its completing the damn level. The princess (the story) should not be used as a substitute reward. In my view, story can't really enhance gameplay. Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 02:41 Torte de Lini wrote:On March 09 2011 01:25 k20a wrote:On March 09 2011 01:17 nGBeast wrote:
I really hate coming to TL because of people like the guy with the first response, douchebaggery at its finest. It be the internet, and it's not like he represents the entire site. Exactly. I'm just another opinion. It's not my kind of humor and I feel the video cut the meat the wrong way. That's my opinion, feel free to post yours. The thing is if you really believed u were "just another opinion," your first reply probably wouldn't have come off as so arrogant and self-important. Can you honestly say you don't see how that first reply is a turn off to some people? Or are you advising that everybody post in an elitist fashion?
That's your interpretation, not my prerogative.
Now you know my intentions, simple ones, so let's hold back on the perceived adjectives.
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Pure Pwnage not total pwnage. Please don't act like you watch the show when you clearly have not.
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On March 09 2011 07:13 AtrumX wrote:
Pure Pwnage not total pwnage. Please don't act like you watch the show when you clearly have not.
It would've been nice if the OP commented on the fact that pure pwnage was making a parody of Zero Punctuation as well >.<
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On March 08 2011 15:29 wonderwall wrote:
Well. At least he's trying REALLY hard to be Yahtzee. I really disagree with his "noobs suck I'm so much better" approach to the new casual gaming market and I laughed when he mentioned superiority in Call of Duty as a mark of a more veteran gamer.
Ya dude cuz being successful on TWL or CEVO is laughable...
EDIT: OP should note that the name of the show is Pure Pwnage, and this is a parody of Zero Punctuation. Mod edit maybe?
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All the practice in the world couldn't help you stop Park Sung Joon from sticking his golden mouse up your ass. -Best part, I rofl'd
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I thought of posting that video at so many imbalance posts.
There has been SO MUCH whinning over the imbalance in SC2 and I really think this video uproots what lies at the root of the problem.
I play Zerg and think the game is pretty balanced, I wouldnt mind having the lurker in my arsenal tho.
To say that one race is overpowered is like saying that everyone that plays it don't deserve the rank or tournament price they have, which i think is quite rude to the people that play that race.
Im not saying that SC2 is 100% balanced because it can't be achevied when players have access to different advantages.
But the amount of imbalance is so small that if you win, you clearly deserved to do so.(my opinion ofcourse)
As long as people have a tiny bit of differential in ability the better player wins.
The racial balance is fine if you ask me with the exception for a few maps.
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i disagree about the last part if u did spend like 10 000 hours (if u a normal capable human being and dedicated) on one thing you will become close to perfection! you can become what you put ur mind to
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On March 09 2011 03:17 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 01:08 Mercury- wrote:On March 08 2011 23:41 PJA wrote:On March 08 2011 19:03 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
People can keep holding on to the naive idea that practice will make you a pro, there is a reason why there are a few select players at the pro level out of the millions of players that comprise the player base... Just have fun, stop the competitive crap specially if you are diamond or below, just have fun and if you make it to masters league having fun so be it... What makes you think that the difference is anything other than practice and dedication? Obviously some level of mental and physical ability is required, but anyone intelligent enough to get into college and not physically disabled in some way had plenty of "natural aptitude" or whatever else you want to call it. How do you explain people being stuck in silver-diamond with 1000 games played? Playing this game a lot isn't the same as playing this game a lot trying to improve.
well people like me play starcraft to improve so we can get a sense of accomplishment and reward. to some of us fun means improving in what we do over time and looking at the transition.
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Totally disagree with this douchebag Nahtzee. Games that are just about exploring mechanics are shitty and retarded and one dimensional and boring. Games with a sick storyline, awesome music, awesome atmosphere and cool RPG elements get me going. See: Deus Ex, Zelda: OOT, Final Fantasy VII, Baldur's Gate II, Planescape Torment. IE all the really good games ever made.
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Comical video, outlines in a satirical (and crass) way how consumerism has murdered popular games. Anyone remember when it was actually cool to be good at a game instead of getting all the achievements? I do, and I'm glad other people are as frustrated by it as I am.
Got a laugh, that's what is was for.
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Everyone saying talent doesn't matter, only practice: you honestly believe, given the same practice, you could go 50-50 vs MC, Flash, MVP, etc?
Do you also think that if you practiced golf enough you could beat Tiger Woods? If you practiced hard enough you could outmaneuver Napoleon?
Such denial oh my...
And to the above poster, comparing games like OOT to the trash they release lately is actually sickening.
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On March 09 2011 07:47 sc4k wrote:
Totally disagree with this douchebag Nahtzee. Games that are just about exploring mechanics are shitty and retarded and one dimensional and boring. Games with a sick storyline, awesome music, awesome atmosphere and cool RPG elements get me going. See: Deus Ex, Zelda: OOT, Final Fantasy VII, Baldur's Gate II, Planescape Torment. IE all the really good games ever made.
I believe there was nothing mentioned about Storyline, Music, etc. being BAD. Just that it's worthless if there is no gameplay.
Every game you listed are great because their foundation includes excellent, absorbing gameplay. I doubt you would hate Ocarina of Time if it were in black and white, for example.
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On March 08 2011 19:30 Axeinst wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 19:03 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
People can keep holding on to the naive idea that practice will make you a pro, there is a reason why there are a few select players at the pro level out of the millions of players that comprise the player base... Just have fun, stop the competitive crap specially if you are diamond or below, just have fun and if you make it to masters league having fun so be it... Argh people like this attitude so make me mad. I am honest, it is fucking stupid to think like that because there is absolutely no reasoning or evidence. Your though process goes like this: There is few people at the top -> not everybody cannot become top because there is only few people at the top. The fact is, that to become top of starcraft you need only normal intelligence and body with no disabilities. There is no known natural born factors that makes those gsl-players apart from others. If you are going to claim that in order to become gsl material you need to have some special and natural things that others dont have, you need to have evidence for that. In basketball, there is clear evidence of those kind of factors, like tallness.
I think you're full of shit.
Explain why some pro-gamers who practice their heart out only make it to the B-team or not even, while others can achieve greatness within only a few short years. Flash, JD, and Bisu all started playing Starcraft competitively only recently (~2006) and quickly began to dominate the scene by 2008. Meanwhile there's dozens of pro-gamers you may have never even heard of that have been around for years longer. They all follow a similar regiment of practice at their team houses.
Or explain why Bisu has ridiculously good PvZ, but shaky PvT and Stork has insane PvT, but struggles often in PvZ. They can't even explain it themselves, the only thing they can say during an interview is that they just "understand that matchup better". I highly doubt that Bisu spends all his time practicing PvZ and ignoring PvT, when it's probably the opposite. Likewise with Stork and PvT.
Talent in SC is the ability to pick up things quickly, understanding things, and multitasking extremely effectively. Most people simply aren't "mentally agile" enough to do 10 things at once like a top-tier pro-gamer can. Even though I have no scientific proof, I'm sure the top pros' brains are simply wired differently from the average person.
As an example, 50% of people fail at one of the simplest multitasking/awareness tests, and no one knows why.
http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/gorilla_experiment.html
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Dude, if everyone practice enough could be a top progamer, I'd be freaking Albert Einstein right now.
Talents comes naturally, and it takes practice to perfect.
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And another thread turning into flaming. Jesus can you take a break? It's like every thread on the starcraft 2 section is filled with people trying to disprove one another. Normally i go on the forums to relax from tough games, but the tension here makes it very uncomfortable reading the forums
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That was explicitly AWESOME. Great post, video dude deserves hella recognition.
I finally realized that Starcraft is actually my hobby, not just my favourite game. Much like chess or train building is someone else's hobby, i pwn ladder noobs.
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On March 09 2011 07:47 sc4k wrote:
Totally disagree with this douchebag Nahtzee. Games that are just about exploring mechanics are shitty and retarded and one dimensional and boring. Games with a sick storyline, awesome music, awesome atmosphere and cool RPG elements get me going. See: Deus Ex, Zelda: OOT, Final Fantasy VII, Baldur's Gate II, Planescape Torment. IE all the really good games ever made.
And I'm sorry but are you kidding??? Zelda/FF series were so INNOVATIVE in their MECHANICS that they became ridiculously popular as a result. Zelda essentially transformed the fantasy novel genre into a VIDEOGAME and FF series did the same (or at least was the first to do it effectively) with turn-based "board games". What you are seeing as part of a game's "storyline" is also a tool for expressing it's "gameplay". Yes they are intertwined to a large extent.
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Can't believe so many people haven't seen this before. Its Jarret Cale doing a parody on Zero Punctuation while still sort of in the Jeremy Character. Was probably through this video I learnt about JulyZerg after hearing his name mentioned I went and looked up who he was, and why he'd be able to shove a golden mouse up my arse.
If anyone hasn't ever seen Pure Pwnage I suggest you go watch the web series from the beginning (ignore the tv series, it's mostly a reboot/sequel mess that wasn't as funny as the original)
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The next time you think, "I could beat all the progamers if I just played as much as them". Think again.
The question I ask in turn: How would you know without trying?
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On March 09 2011 08:53 enigmaticcam wrote:Show nested quote +The next time you think, "I could beat all the progamers if I just played as much as them". Think again. The question I ask in turn: How would you know without trying?
Look at progammers. Most of them probably practice about the same amount.
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EPT
