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Chill: I will now be moderating this thread heavily. Some of the ways people are talking down to each other in here are completely unacceptable. |
On March 13 2011 08:38 Dalavita wrote:
Don't forget that EMP only deals shield damage, and that you can stack storms whereas one EMP is the same as 20 on the same group of units.
I don't think "stack" is the word you want. I think "chain" would be more appropriate.
Because "stack" implies using multiple storms at the same time. And that doesn't do additional damage (or shit would be so freaking overpowered =P)
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On March 13 2011 08:38 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 08:35 KillerPenguin wrote:
What this topic should be pointing out is that storm is not even comparable to EMP.
Storm
Range 9, Radius 1.5, 80 damage over 4s, 3s cd, long amount of time to start, unit ms 1.875
EMP
Range 10, Radius 2, up to 100 damage instantly, no cd, moderate time to start using, unit ms 2.25, oh lets not forget it reveals cloaked units, works on buildings, and drains energy
Of 10 different ways to compare them the only two things storm is better at is being usable vs other races and speed of use once amulet and warp gate are researched. Don't forget that EMP only deals shield damage, and that you can stack storms whereas one EMP is the same as 20 on the same group of units.
you can't stack storms?
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By stack I obviously mean that you can use them one after the other on the same group of units and do additional damage, whereas a second EMP on the same units is pointless, AS I STATED.
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On March 13 2011 08:50 Dalavita wrote:
By stack I obviously mean that you can use them one after the other on the same group of units and do additional damage, whereas a second EMP on the same units is pointless, AS I STATED.
Not very "obvious" considering the word stack doesn't really mean one after the other.
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On March 13 2011 08:52 DannyJ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 08:50 Dalavita wrote:
By stack I obviously mean that you can use them one after the other on the same group of units and do additional damage, whereas a second EMP on the same units is pointless, AS I STATED. Not very "obvious" considering the word stack doesn't really mean one after the other.
Well, now you know. Can we move on?
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Lets just get this nerf over with. I wanna see what terrans are going to complain about after this when they still lose games with HTs getting this huge nerf.
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On March 13 2011 08:55 Zidane wrote:
Lets just get this nerf over with. I wanna see what terrans are going to complain about after this when they still lose games with HTs getting this huge nerf.
Zergs were clearly whining about the balanced 5rax reaper yo.
Get over yourself.
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On March 13 2011 08:54 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 08:52 DannyJ wrote:On March 13 2011 08:50 Dalavita wrote:
By stack I obviously mean that you can use them one after the other on the same group of units and do additional damage, whereas a second EMP on the same units is pointless, AS I STATED. Not very "obvious" considering the word stack doesn't really mean one after the other. Well, now you know. Can we move on?
Well, techincailly now YOU know, because you are the one who learned what a word meant.
But anywho, yes moving on, comparing the 2 spells really is useless. I don't see why just because they are two dueling spells in one certain matchup means they need to be compared and contrasted.
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On March 13 2011 08:39 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 08:35 KillerPenguin wrote:
What this topic should be pointing out is that storm is not even comparable to EMP.
Storm
Range 9, Radius 1.5, 80 damage over 4s, 3s cd, long amount of time to start, unit ms 1.875
EMP
Range 10, Radius 2, up to 100 damage instantly, no cd, moderate time to start using, unit ms 2.25, oh lets not forget it reveals cloaked units, works on buildings, and drains energy
Of 10 different ways to compare them the only two things storm is better at is being usable vs other races and speed of use once amulet and warp gate are researched. EMP doen'st have a cooldown? :o
Really?
What do you (everyone) think about this? I don't find it fair if storm has cooldown, while EMP doesn't.
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On March 13 2011 08:38 Dalavita wrote:
Don't forget that EMP only deals shield damage, and that you can stack storms whereas one EMP is the same as 20 on the same group of units.
you can't stack storms, you can't spam storms due to cooldown either
(forces to get alot more HT do even keep consecutive storms, do deal atleast decent dmg)
On March 13 2011 08:39 FabledIntegral wrote:
EMP doen'st have a cooldown? :o
no it doesn't
go test it in the unit tester
a ghost with 150 energy can instantly throw down 2 EMP after another (like forcefields)
a Templar with 150 energy can throw down 1 Storm then has a 3 seconds cooldown before it can cast again.
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@OP
Honest question, have you ever been playing Protoss, warp in a bunch of units near your army only to see a Terran drop plop down right in your base? You have no warpgates to use, they are all on cooldown, so you cannot do anything to respond.
Have you even ever considered this idea? To me this sounds exactly like Orbital Command scans vs. Dark Templars. If you just MULEd, you're screwed. Just because it takes 5 seconds to warp in a High Templar does not mean one has the capacity to do such.
Or hey, I go 6 gate a Zerg player. I get to his base, I see only lings, so I warp in 6 zealots. Then he flanks me with roaches. My warpgates are on cooldown, and I need stalkers. Do I get that 5 second reaction time you were talking about? No, I do not. I lose because my production buildings were in use, which is the same thing that happens when a Terran player builds a marine, the production building is in use.
You make some great arguments but your original thesis is wrong. Ignoring cooldown is impossible.
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Not to mention that in the case you just mentioned the terran has an advantage, because while toss can't cancel units already produced, and has to w8 for the cooldown to wear off, the terran can just stop whatever units he's making and make the appropriate ones.
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On March 12 2011 17:48 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 13:47 Sek-Kuar wrote:
Warp-in changes one of core mechanics, so Protoss requires 5 sec of planning in situations where T/Z require 1-2 min.
Stim changes attack/move speed. Thats only balance question. And you should not compare balance and mechanics. so you approve the removal of detection from Terran Scans? Cause a Terran needs 0 mins of preparation against Cloak. While both other races have to put ressources&time (2-3 mins) into teching for static defense to open up detection routes. Terran can just scan, that takes no preparation and is a nooby mechanic that takes skill away. A Terran should have the same fear of cloaked/burrowed units as other races do. By your logic you should agree right?
Scanning doesn't do that much against good banshee/dt play tbh. Maybe in Platinum.
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On March 13 2011 21:57 Mercury- wrote:
Scanning doesn't do that much against good banshee/dt play tbh. Maybe in Platinum.
If Scanning wasn't possible or didn't affect Cloaked units, then PvT would be VERY different. Scanning is a very useful ability, and directly comparable to warping in HTs.
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On March 13 2011 21:57 Mercury- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 17:48 freetgy wrote:On March 12 2011 13:47 Sek-Kuar wrote:
Warp-in changes one of core mechanics, so Protoss requires 5 sec of planning in situations where T/Z require 1-2 min.
Stim changes attack/move speed. Thats only balance question. And you should not compare balance and mechanics. so you approve the removal of detection from Terran Scans? Cause a Terran needs 0 mins of preparation against Cloak. While both other races have to put ressources&time (2-3 mins) into teching for static defense to open up detection routes. Terran can just scan, that takes no preparation and is a nooby mechanic that takes skill away. A Terran should have the same fear of cloaked/burrowed units as other races do. By your logic you should agree right? Scanning doesn't do that much against good banshee/dt play tbh. Maybe in Platinum.
Lol how can you even say that?
90% of the times it's scan that saves terrans from banshees and dts.
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This thread is misleading in many areas, as 'casters are not balanced simply on production'.
Protoss require either: HT or Colossus due to weak gateway units, roach/marauders > zeal stalker anyday.
Templar will never be used unless protoss reaches 3+ base, as its too unstable.
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Why is everyone talking like HT can't storm w/o amulet. You have to build casters before you think you'll need them like every other race now.
Really it just puts you on par with the other races WITH their energy upgrade, you warp in a HT at the same time T starts a ghost. i'd bet by the time the ghost comes out with his 75 energy the templar will have enough energy to storm.
This change is needed so toss can't defend any expo with a few cannons and storm warp in spam.
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On March 13 2011 22:31 Bosko wrote:
Why is everyone talking like HT can't storm w/o amulet. You have to build casters before you think you'll need them like every other race now.
Really it just puts you on par with the other races WITH their energy upgrade, you warp in a HT at the same time T starts a ghost. i'd bet by the time the ghost comes out with his 75 energy the templar will have enough energy to storm.
This change is needed so toss can't defend any expo with a few cannons and storm warp in spam.
First off, 1 ghost can nulify 5-6HT with a single EMP.
Given that the Terran Bio Army can completely destroy gateway units w/o HT support, going High Templar w/o amulet is a big risk and requires way more skill from the P player because one good EMP can lose you the game. In a sense 1 good EMP is more damaging to the Protoss player than 1 good storm will ever be.
Second, regarding defenses lets keep in mind that Terrans are very mobile with their medivacs and that drops can be very deadly, with Marrauders killing Nexuses in seconds.
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Good point, but still flawed.Ghosts and Infestors have other skills as opposed to the HT. Ghosts can EMP and completely nullify your storms and fungals. Infestors can use neural parasite, and their fungal growth holds you in place. Both ghosts and Infestors can also go invisible, making you make a detector. HT's on the other hand, only have storm and feedback. Feedback can only be used if you SEE the other 2 units. Storms are the HT's only option, and after 1 storm, it takes forever to recharge that energy.
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On March 13 2011 08:50 Dalavita wrote:
By stack I obviously mean that you can use them one after the other on the same group of units and do additional damage, whereas a second EMP on the same units is pointless, AS I STATED.
EMP's also drain energy.
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EPT
