On March 04 2011 08:07 DarthXX wrote: I havn't been on the PTR to test, but how slow is the fungal missile? Is it still possible to hit mutas? If not I fear ZvZ might turn to a muta-fest
Timing off the video it takes about .75 second at max range.
Its not terrible, but its no EMP projectile.
We need more spells like that... so actually u can dodge it( actuall skill ) ... I love it, but still i dont know if its a nerf or a buff for zerg.
Still, Good call from Blizzard.
projectile instead of instant: very slight nerf. 4 second reduction in snare: very major nerf.
all around nerf.
if the time is reduced, but the damage isn't, it creates a higher dps right? isn't that a buff? although the units aren't snared as long, they will lose their life a lot faster. in short batttles, i would prefer a higher dps than a long ensnare time in some instances. for example, when i am fungalng for damage and engaging with melee units.
higher dps isn't a big deal when the spell isn't a dps spell like storm.
again you can create higher DPS by cutting the snare to 2 seconds and cutting the damage in half, but that doesn't make the spell better.
Damage is the LAST reason you fungal growth something. and if thats the entire "buff" then a major ass nerf it really was.
On March 04 2011 08:07 DarthXX wrote: I havn't been on the PTR to test, but how slow is the fungal missile? Is it still possible to hit mutas? If not I fear ZvZ might turn to a muta-fest
Timing off the video it takes about .75 second at max range.
Its not terrible, but its no EMP projectile.
We need more spells like that... so actually u can dodge it( actuall skill ) ... I love it, but still i dont know if its a nerf or a buff for zerg.
Still, Good call from Blizzard.
projectile instead of instant: very slight nerf. 4 second reduction in snare: very major nerf.
all around nerf.
if the time is reduced, but the damage isn't, it creates a higher dps right? isn't that a buff? although the units aren't snared as long, they will lose their life a lot faster. in short batttles, i would prefer a higher dps than a long ensnare time in some instances. for example, when i am fungalng for damage and engaging with melee units.
higher dps isn't a big deal when the spell isn't a dps spell like storm.
again you can create higher DPS by cutting the snare to 2 seconds and cutting the damage in half, but that doesn't make the spell better.
Damage is the LAST reason you fungal growth something. and if thats the entire "buff" then a major ass nerf it really was.
They're trying to change the role of the spell and the unit. You did not use fungal for DPS before because it could not even out-DPS medivacs. It's fine if you think it'll be bad for damage now(because of the speed of the projectile, for example, or because of the energy to damage ratio, or because it doesn't do enough damage in your opinion) but it doesn't even make sense to me to say that this is a big nerf because you couldn't use fungal growth for damage before and now you can use it for damage.
On March 04 2011 08:07 DarthXX wrote: I havn't been on the PTR to test, but how slow is the fungal missile? Is it still possible to hit mutas? If not I fear ZvZ might turn to a muta-fest
Timing off the video it takes about .75 second at max range.
Its not terrible, but its no EMP projectile.
We need more spells like that... so actually u can dodge it( actuall skill ) ... I love it, but still i dont know if its a nerf or a buff for zerg.
Still, Good call from Blizzard.
projectile instead of instant: very slight nerf. 4 second reduction in snare: very major nerf.
all around nerf.
if the time is reduced, but the damage isn't, it creates a higher dps right? isn't that a buff? although the units aren't snared as long, they will lose their life a lot faster. in short batttles, i would prefer a higher dps than a long ensnare time in some instances. for example, when i am fungalng for damage and engaging with melee units.
higher dps isn't a big deal when the spell isn't a dps spell like storm.
again you can create higher DPS by cutting the snare to 2 seconds and cutting the damage in half, but that doesn't make the spell better.
Damage is the LAST reason you fungal growth something. and if thats the entire "buff" then a major ass nerf it really was.
They're trying to change the role of the spell and the unit. You did not use fungal for DPS before because it could not even out-DPS medivacs. It's fine if you think it'll be bad for damage now(because of the speed of the projectile, for example, or because of the energy to damage ratio, or because it doesn't do enough damage in your opinion) but it doesn't even make sense to me to say that this is a big nerf because you couldn't use fungal growth for damage before and now you can use it for damage.
and you could use it for army control and good positioning and anti air and anti fast unit before and now you can't. how can you say it's a buff at all.
besides, they are changing the role of the unit from a unique army control caster to a terrible DPS caster.
and i am switching to protoss if it goes through because i wasted a yera of my life learning to use fungal and not going to waste any more time with a shitty version of it.
and you could use it for army control and good positioning and anti air and anti fast unit before and now you can't. how can you say it's a buff at all.
Because now you can use it to hurt things. Though I disagree that it can't be used against air units or fast units. It just won't be quite as effective.
Like they were speculating on SOTG, it seems possible that the change will force Terrans to be careful with their marines and make it much much easier to kill them. I'm not really convinced one way or another it'll be good against Protoss, doesn't seem to actually do enough damage. It may though. Guess we'll have to see.
I'm not really convinced by an argument that seems to be focused completely on the fact that it doesn't have the same utility that it used to when in fact the intent is to give it a different utility. Yes, I understand, fungal growth did something before. I am not convinced this is a worse thing for it to do, it just might be worse at its new job than it was at its old one.
and you could use it for army control and good positioning and anti air and anti fast unit before and now you can't. how can you say it's a buff at all.
Because now you can use it to hurt things. Though I disagree that it can't be used against air units or fast units. It just won't be quite as effective.
so because medivacs exist for one race and only heal bio units you couldn't hurt anything with fungal before?
On March 03 2011 05:26 IPA wrote: I'm excited about the infestor change. I understand it changes the nature and purpose of the unit; but to be honest, I'd rather have the damage than the positional advantage of a longer "freeze". The idea of decimating a bio ball (even with medivac support) with 3 infestors sounds so appealing to me.
I think the mothership change is a joke, and I say that as a zerg player. If you teched to that unit, you were making large sacrifices to other compositional elements of your army. It should be a fearsome unit. The vortex was not imbalanced in any way.
As a proud Terran hater, I love the small but significant nerfs they are receiving. <3
3k masters for reference.
and you are the type of zerg that i dislike very much because you think dps is more important than utility. :/ just mass hydras then instead of muta baneling, since hydras have better dps but worse utility.
ugh i cannot begin to describe how disgusted i am at this proposed fungal change.
Differences of opinion and play style are welcome, brother zerg. I don't dislike you for playing differently. That was something of a harsh statement.
lol at all the people whining about fungual change. now its possibly even better than storm vs marines (a good terran will usualy only let his marine take 2 hits from the storm) fungual deals that much damage, + disables.
On March 04 2011 17:28 dark fury wrote: lol at all the people whining about fungual change. now its possibly even better than storm vs marines (a good terran will usualy only let his marine take 2 hits from the storm) fungual deals that much damage, + disables.
3 funguals will also kill a group of stalkers
before: 1 fungal means a group of marines will die (typically in 8 seconds) now: 1 fungal means a group of marines will be damaged greatly, 2 fungals mean they die
this is do to the huge nerf in snare time preventing units from getting to and surrounded the marines in time.
"good" terrans should actually prevent fungal from even hitting as the same time for 2 ticks of storm is the time it takes the projectile to reach the marines.
On March 04 2011 17:38 dark fury wrote: Good point. i take it all back, except i still think its a buff against protoss
I think the damage was very welcome vs stalker collosus due to the huge shield count on stalkers. however i still very much dislike the snare time change as it doesn't give enough time to surround a unit, unless they are already within range of the collosus stalker ball which means you have to take multiple volleys before you can engage, which sucks so bad, it's pretty much a free PDD for them but with all types of attacks. thats pretty disappointing when you play with it some.
On March 03 2011 05:26 IPA wrote: I'm excited about the infestor change. I understand it changes the nature and purpose of the unit; but to be honest, I'd rather have the damage than the positional advantage of a longer "freeze". The idea of decimating a bio ball (even with medivac support) with 3 infestors sounds so appealing to me.
I think the mothership change is a joke, and I say that as a zerg player. If you teched to that unit, you were making large sacrifices to other compositional elements of your army. It should be a fearsome unit. The vortex was not imbalanced in any way.
As a proud Terran hater, I love the small but significant nerfs they are receiving. <3
3k masters for reference.
and you are the type of zerg that i dislike very much because you think dps is more important than utility. :/ just mass hydras then instead of muta baneling, since hydras have better dps but worse utility.
ugh i cannot begin to describe how disgusted i am at this proposed fungal change.
Differences of opinion and play style are welcome, brother zerg. I don't dislike you for playing differently. That was something of a harsh statement.
Best of luck.
He's not a brother zerg, he's quitting zerg because of the infestor change. LOL. i love this man.
On March 04 2011 17:28 dark fury wrote: lol at all the people whining about fungual change. now its possibly even better than storm vs marines (a good terran will usualy only let his marine take 2 hits from the storm) fungual deals that much damage, + disables.
3 funguals will also kill a group of stalkers
before: 1 fungal means a group of marines will die (typically in 8 seconds) now: 1 fungal means a group of marines will be damaged greatly, 2 fungals mean they die
this is do to the huge nerf in snare time preventing units from getting to and surrounded the marines in time.
"good" terrans should actually prevent fungal from even hitting as the same time for 2 ticks of storm is the time it takes the projectile to reach the marines.
WTF man.. You are messing me up. What side are you on lol? From the sounds of it, you just like trolling everyone's posts x.x STOP CONFUSING MEEEEEE
Oh nvm, don't even bother answering. Last page you are talking about scourge and reavers. BAH
On March 04 2011 17:28 dark fury wrote: lol at all the people whining about fungual change. now its possibly even better than storm vs marines (a good terran will usualy only let his marine take 2 hits from the storm) fungual deals that much damage, + disables.
3 funguals will also kill a group of stalkers
before: 1 fungal means a group of marines will die (typically in 8 seconds) now: 1 fungal means a group of marines will be damaged greatly, 2 fungals mean they die
this is do to the huge nerf in snare time preventing units from getting to and surrounded the marines in time.
"good" terrans should actually prevent fungal from even hitting as the same time for 2 ticks of storm is the time it takes the projectile to reach the marines.
WTF man.. You are messing me up. What side are you on lol? From the sounds of it, you just like trolling everyone's posts x.x STOP CONFUSING MEEEEEE
i'm confused about what you are confused about?
because of the snare time decrease it's difficult to get a surround on a group of marines like you could before, and as such you have to use 2x the energy to get them dead for sure
and dark fury stated that good terrans only let 2 ticks of storm go by on their marines, which is about the time it takes the projectile for fungal to hit the marines, so his definition of good terrans should be able to avoid alot of fungals.
i'm not trolling anyone
just super upset that a years worth of practice and effort are going down the drain and some people are so happy about it kind of pisses me off.
also for the record, they changed the fungal to: 1. last half the time 2. deal the same amount of damage 3. 1+2=> double DPS 4. still have hold effect 5. 1+4=> half the hold effect 6. be a projectile
which changes the spell in the following ways: 3. double the DPS: fungal can now be used as a weak damage spell 5. half the hold effect: you must pay closer attention to the units you have used fungal on to continue fungal them: more micro intensive: rewards better players, but loses half of its HPE(HoldPerEnergy) 6. be a projectile: you can now fire a projectile at an area which will land two storm ticks later: you can fungal an area and move away immiedietly with your infestors: you can fungal areas outside of the infestors normal range: rewards better players
in essence: the change doubles the DPS, halfs the HPE, rewards better players. I'm perfectly fine with that.
I like the patch. I believe its a fair move. But tell me, why does the PTR acronym make me feel like it should be "Patch the Rage" instead of "Public Test Realm?"
On March 04 2011 17:53 Roblin wrote: also for the record, they changed the fungal to: 1. last half the time 2. deal the same amount of damage 3. 1+2=> double DPS 4. still have hold effect 5. 1+4=> half the hold effect 6. be a projectile
which changes the spell in the following ways: 3. double the DPS: fungal can now be used as a weak damage spell 5. half the hold effect: you must pay closer attention to the units you have used fungal on to continue fungal them: more micro intensive: rewards better players, but loses half of its HPE(HoldPerEnergy) 6. be a projectile: you can now fire a projectile at an area which will land two storm ticks later: you can fungal an area and move away immiedietly with your infestors: you can fungal areas outside of the infestors normal range: rewards better players
in essence: the change doubles the DPS, halfs the HPE, rewards better players. I'm perfectly fine with that.
well 3. just means it deals damage faster, the same overall damage exists (except vs armored) so any amount of damage you could deal before you can't deal more now (except vs armored). the less fungal time means you have to invest twice as much energy in getting the same effect for surrounds and positioning. which rewards more infestors and less so better players.
and the projectile as i said i have little real issue with. it's a front loaded nerf, something that as you get used to (as we did BEFORE it became instant) it gets better and stops being a nerf and just becomes different.
On March 04 2011 17:28 dark fury wrote: lol at all the people whining about fungual change. now its possibly even better than storm vs marines (a good terran will usualy only let his marine take 2 hits from the storm) fungual deals that much damage, + disables.
3 funguals will also kill a group of stalkers
before: 1 fungal means a group of marines will die (typically in 8 seconds) now: 1 fungal means a group of marines will be damaged greatly, 2 fungals mean they die
this is do to the huge nerf in snare time preventing units from getting to and surrounded the marines in time.
"good" terrans should actually prevent fungal from even hitting as the same time for 2 ticks of storm is the time it takes the projectile to reach the marines.
WTF man.. You are messing me up. What side are you on lol? From the sounds of it, you just like trolling everyone's posts x.x STOP CONFUSING MEEEEEE
i'm confused about what you are confused about?
because of the snare time decrease it's difficult to get a surround on a group of marines like you could before, and as such you have to use 2x the energy to get them dead for sure
and dark fury stated that good terrans only let 2 ticks of storm go by on their marines, which is about the time it takes the projectile for fungal to hit the marines, so his definition of good terrans should be able to avoid alot of fungals.
i'm not trolling anyone
just super upset that a years worth of practice and effort are going down the drain and some people are so happy about it kind of pisses me off.
EDIT: full disclosure: also pretty drunk atm
Your anger and over exaggerations about fungal makes the entire change worth it I'm sorry, it's nothing personal.
EPT
I'm sorry, it's nothing personal.
