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On March 04 2011 00:21 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 00:18 flodeskum wrote:On March 03 2011 23:37 TimeSpiral wrote:
So, if Blink stalkers can all of the sudden dodge Fungal Growth, wouldn't it be equally possible to dodge EMP? From the videos I've seen of the fungal projectile it is considerably slower than an emp. It's also a lot more visible, an emp looks like the ghost is throwing an empty coke bottle at you so it's quite hard to spot but the fungal growth is a shiny green blob. I have not seen a video. Anyone have one? I can only imagine the spell projectiles all sharing the same movement speed. Anything else would be silly, barring the rofl hunter-seeker missile.
Well they don't have anything like the same speed.
EMP is basically instant. You cant dodge it, you can't even see it, you can't see a cloaked ghost either.
Fungal is now a fat green ball, it's easy to see and really easy to blink away from. You can even move stimmed marines out of it, that's how slow it is.
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On March 04 2011 00:26 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 00:21 TimeSpiral wrote:On March 04 2011 00:18 flodeskum wrote:On March 03 2011 23:37 TimeSpiral wrote:
So, if Blink stalkers can all of the sudden dodge Fungal Growth, wouldn't it be equally possible to dodge EMP? From the videos I've seen of the fungal projectile it is considerably slower than an emp. It's also a lot more visible, an emp looks like the ghost is throwing an empty coke bottle at you so it's quite hard to spot but the fungal growth is a shiny green blob. I have not seen a video. Anyone have one? I can only imagine the spell projectiles all sharing the same movement speed. Anything else would be silly, barring the rofl hunter-seeker missile. Well they don't have anything like the same speed. EMP is basically instant. You cant dodge it, you can't even see it, you can't see a cloaked ghost either. Fungal is now a fat green ball, it's easy to see and really easy to blink away from. You can even move stimmed marines out of it, that's how slow it is.
Lol, now THAT is a bitter response.
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Does anybody know if the ladder reset will defined be coming in this patch? I have been waiting for it, hope it is!
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On March 04 2011 00:26 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 00:21 TimeSpiral wrote:On March 04 2011 00:18 flodeskum wrote:On March 03 2011 23:37 TimeSpiral wrote:
So, if Blink stalkers can all of the sudden dodge Fungal Growth, wouldn't it be equally possible to dodge EMP? From the videos I've seen of the fungal projectile it is considerably slower than an emp. It's also a lot more visible, an emp looks like the ghost is throwing an empty coke bottle at you so it's quite hard to spot but the fungal growth is a shiny green blob. I have not seen a video. Anyone have one? I can only imagine the spell projectiles all sharing the same movement speed. Anything else would be silly, barring the rofl hunter-seeker missile. Well they don't have anything like the same speed. EMP is basically instant. You cant dodge it, you can't even see it, you can't see a cloaked ghost either. Fungal is now a fat green ball, it's easy to see and really easy to blink away from. You can even move stimmed marines out of it, that's how slow it is.
imo thats really good, introduces more micro moments to the game (who didnt enjoy marine vs lurker micro? ). Of course the FG may be underpowered in its current form, but it being a projectile is a pretty good idea overall in terms of spectating :D
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On March 04 2011 00:18 flodeskum wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 23:37 TimeSpiral wrote:
So, if Blink stalkers can all of the sudden dodge Fungal Growth, wouldn't it be equally possible to dodge EMP? an emp looks like the ghost is throwing an empty coke bottle at you
What a hilarious analogy XD
For those of y'all who are too lazy to youtube it yourselves 
Fungal Growth Missile Speed Video
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On March 03 2011 19:13 Auban wrote:
I have a couple of ideas or suggestions if you will.
Protoss changes:
1. Graviton beam should be an upgrade or require more energy (too good vs any unit except for stimmed marines)
2. Force fields should not cover an entire ramp (they can kill an expansion so easy when the enemy can't reinforce)
3. Either Colossus range decreased by 1 or make the attack upgrades more human (insame damage with splash)
4. Decrease storm damage to 60 (no need to remove the amulet, which is a nice upgrade)
Also, decrease Templar archives build time to 45 sec and Twilight council build time to 45 sec.
5. Keep the new charge on zealots from PTR 1.3, great change.
6. Mothership vortex had to be fixed, but at least make the Mothership do more damage. How much can it really hurt the game? It's only ONE unit. Just increase the damage.
Terran changes:
1. Keep stim research time, but make stim less efficient. Either get "only" 40% increase in attack and speed or make the units lose more hp when stimming. MMM's are too powerful, too early.
2. Decrease healing from medivacs or make it require more energy, just a tiny bit is enough.
3. Siege tank range decreased by 1 (completely insane when put behind rocks or next to a ramp and use medivacs or scan for sight)
4. Concussive shells upgrade should cost 75 75.
5. Thor's air range decreased by 1 (don't know about this one).
6. Turn EMP to an upgrade (cheap 50 50) at the academy and make EMP only take 75% of the energy.
7. Bunker salvage should give you back only 80 minerals or so, not the full amount.
Zerg changes:
1. Just as the patch 1.3 PTR, the fungal growth stun time should be decreased, but only to 6 seconds, and make it a faster projectile. Also, change the "vs armoured" to +20% instead of 30%.
2. Increase Queen HP to 200 or decrease build time by 5 to 10 sec.
3. Increase Hydralisk HP to 90 and decrease Roach HP to 135-140 (so the hydra is used not only vs zerg and only protoss air builds).
(Hydralisk HP of 80 is ok if storm and colossus damage output/range is decreased, as noted above)
Of course, this is seen from a Zerg perspective, on platinum level.
Please give this a thought.
Any criticism is appreciated.
/ Auban
*EDIT*
I'm sorry, I just realised this was not quite the right place in the forum for my post.
Again, sorry for this.
Decreasing the size of FF will make Protoss auto-loss against Terran early aggression... I agree that colossus' range should be 8, but then viking's range should be lowered accordingly.
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Is there a video posted of the new fungal projective speed / new battlecruiser speed? I haven't been able to find one on youtube, and installing the PTR just to check this would be a pain.
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On March 04 2011 00:46 wristuzi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 00:18 flodeskum wrote:On March 03 2011 23:37 TimeSpiral wrote:
So, if Blink stalkers can all of the sudden dodge Fungal Growth, wouldn't it be equally possible to dodge EMP? an emp looks like the ghost is throwing an empty coke bottle at you What a hilarious analogy XD For those of y'all who are too lazy to youtube it yourselves Fungal Growth Missile Speed Video
That is slow! Wow.
But, I'm not a huge fan of manipulation spells in this game anyway (mostly because I play Terran and we don't have any). I understand that c-shells are a manipulation spell but it is much less potent than "create terrain" or "hold person".
I don't think any spell should be instant cast. Coming from a DnD background ALL spells have a downside or penalty to using them and that is what balances their power; casting times, side effects like fatigue, in some cases if you could not concentrate you could not even cast the spell!
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On March 03 2011 09:33 WarrickHunt wrote:
so effectively PvZ will now become mass pheonix vs mass hydra n then toss can tech to collsus and win?
I am very sadly dissapointed in the nerf to zerg, as well as no nerf to late game toss, other than the KA.
Collussus is far too strong, and if a unit can force a unit that cant be used well after they are dead is stupid, toss get to pick up with their anti muta unit, other than corrution which isnt all that good, corupters are useless, thus eating into zergs 200/200 army even more as it is already weak.
I am disapoint blizzard
You're right. :O If this change goes through there's no counter to phoenix then colossi
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EMP should either be dodgable or turned into a drain rather then an instant "all your shit is gone" mechanic. It would actually make PvT ghost vs ht interesting.
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On March 04 2011 01:04 TimeSpiral wrote:I don't think any spell should be instant cast. Coming from a DnD background ALL spells have a downside or penalty to using them and that is what balances their power; casting times, side effects like fatigue, in some cases if you could not concentrate you could not even cast the spell! Yeah, sure. Let's also implement experience system for caster units and let them wield items.
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On March 04 2011 01:04 TimeSpiral wrote:
That is slow! Wow.
But, I'm not a huge fan of manipulation spells in this game anyway (mostly because I play Terran and we don't have any). I understand that c-shells are a manipulation spell but it is much less potent than "create terrain" or "hold person".
I don't think any spell should be instant cast. Coming from a DnD background ALL spells have a downside or penalty to using them and that is what balances their power; casting times, side effects like fatigue, in some cases if you could not concentrate you could not even cast the spell!
Point defense drone counts as a manipulation spell, doesn't it? And even apart from that it could be argued that snipe, auto-turret, and hunter-seeker missile are just as effective as any manipulation spell T could have otherwise, as non-supply based damage is a huge deal. It may not be "create terrain" or "hold person" but "kill unit" and "nullify missilies" and "destroy mana and shields" seems to work just fine for terran casters.
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Okay, I'll admit: this is too freaking slow.
I feel for zergs =(
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I think that would be okay with that slow speed if Fungal Growth both stunned enemies and did about 150 dmg (but it can't kill) (similar to Plauge in SC:BW) or if it could be cast from under ground just like Infested Terrans.
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Really dont agree with the zerg or toss nerfs. Getting rid of amulet is going to screw most toss builds in my opinion because emp and snipes on templars is pretty easy to do. If you have to warp in a bunch of temps and wait for energy you are going to get rolled by the terran bio ball unless you have other tech to support your army. Have to say I feel sorry for zergs they needed a bigger buff then this ):....
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I honestly feel ok about the amulet being removed. HT's are fucking strong.
People like the compare storm to EMP unfavourably, but as far as I know EMP has never killed an army 3 times the size. Which happens to me all the time with storm. My laptop lags a bit with large armies so sometimes I fail to move out of storms, so that doesn't help, but in my opinion when HT's are on the field protoss has a much easier time of it than terran. I've lost count of the number of times the protoss has been basically dead but HT tech takes a huge lead off of me, and then they win the game just with mass zealots and a bunch of HT's. It's easy to say just EMP them but if they're spread right it's not as easy as that, they can come from any fucking direction, they can be on cliffs, they can be warped in the back of your base when you move out, a single misclick loses you all your marines, you need a shitload of medivacs to even have a hope of staying alive with the constant stimming and storming but they get stormed and feedbacked as well...
Long story short storms are the bane of my fucking existence. This is an over nerf, but I genuinely think some kind of nerf is required.
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On March 04 2011 01:43 Zinjil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 01:04 TimeSpiral wrote:
That is slow! Wow.
But, I'm not a huge fan of manipulation spells in this game anyway (mostly because I play Terran and we don't have any). I understand that c-shells are a manipulation spell but it is much less potent than "create terrain" or "hold person".
I don't think any spell should be instant cast. Coming from a DnD background ALL spells have a downside or penalty to using them and that is what balances their power; casting times, side effects like fatigue, in some cases if you could not concentrate you could not even cast the spell! Point defense drone counts as a manipulation spell, doesn't it? And even apart from that it could be argued that snipe, auto-turret, and hunter-seeker missile are just as effective as any manipulation spell T could have otherwise, as non-supply based damage is a huge deal. It may not be "create terrain" or "hold person" but "kill unit" and "nullify missilies" and "destroy mana and shields" seems to work just fine for terran casters.
The only manipulation ability that Terran has is Concussive Shells, which is the least potent manipulation ability/spell in the game, yet everyone (all non-Terrans) seems to think it is wildly imba (maybe it is, who knows).
Manipulation spells are characterized by spells/effects like; entangle, ensnare, hold person, create terrain, blind, etc ... The manipulation aspect of the spell does not cause damage, while some higher level manip. spells do start to add damage or other damage-related effects like "drain mana, damage hp, etc ..."
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On March 04 2011 03:12 TimeSpiral wrote:
The only manipulation ability that Terran has is Concussive Shells, which is the least potent manipulation ability/spell in the game, yet everyone (all non-Terrans) seems to think it is wildly imba (maybe it is, who knows).
The effect itself might not be amazing, but being a passibe ability really makes it so much better. Not to say that it is on the same level as fungal, as fungal >>> concusive shells.
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United States7483 Posts
On March 04 2011 03:12 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 01:43 Zinjil wrote:On March 04 2011 01:04 TimeSpiral wrote:
That is slow! Wow.
But, I'm not a huge fan of manipulation spells in this game anyway (mostly because I play Terran and we don't have any). I understand that c-shells are a manipulation spell but it is much less potent than "create terrain" or "hold person".
I don't think any spell should be instant cast. Coming from a DnD background ALL spells have a downside or penalty to using them and that is what balances their power; casting times, side effects like fatigue, in some cases if you could not concentrate you could not even cast the spell! Point defense drone counts as a manipulation spell, doesn't it? And even apart from that it could be argued that snipe, auto-turret, and hunter-seeker missile are just as effective as any manipulation spell T could have otherwise, as non-supply based damage is a huge deal. It may not be "create terrain" or "hold person" but "kill unit" and "nullify missilies" and "destroy mana and shields" seems to work just fine for terran casters. The only manipulation ability that Terran has is Concussive Shells, which is the least potent manipulation ability/spell in the game, yet everyone (all non-Terrans) seems to think it is wildly imba (maybe it is, who knows). Manipulation spells are characterized by spells/effects like; entangle, ensnare, hold person, create terrain, blind, etc ... The manipulation aspect of the spell does not cause damage, while some higher level manip. spells do start to add damage or other damage-related effects like "drain mana, damage hp, etc ..."
It's not the concussive shells themselves that are so strong, it's the ridiculously fast upgrade speed and the absurdly cheap cost (50/50) to get them, so you can do really quick rushes with small groups of marauders, and kite groups of units to death forever, easily doing way way more damage than you should. I'm pretty sure everyone would be completely fine with concussive shells and have no issue with them if they took longer to research, even at the cheap cost. Even in the late game, marauders could kite zealots forever (even with charge) and never get hit. Fortunately, they're buffing charge to not suck horribly anymore, so it won't be so bad.
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Terrain manipulation comes in many ways, and Terran excels at doing it passively. PFs, siege tanks, missile turrets for the air, bunker and building walls; all of these are massively important in controlling space and positioning of your opponent's army.
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EPT
