EPT[G] Comprehensive SC2 League and Ladder Guide - Page 12
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Cain0
United Kingdom608 Posts
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Gulzt
Netherlands275 Posts
One question, how do you know for sure it's 1 point per 112 minutes? | ||
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DiDigital
75 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On March 30 2011 20:40 DiDigital wrote: Anyone notice the huge increases in points for some players to start the season. One player I saw received 38 points for a win. While that is in the old range of values with bonus pool included I only had 7 bonus pool available at the time after my first game. Is it possible that the number of points possible has increased, or am I just missing something? Those are the best players, with the highest MMR. Because the game is trying to make (division-adjusted) points converge on MMR, those players earn the most for their games. (Practically, this is because their points start at division-adjusted 0 and they're playing other similarly-high MMR players.) | ||
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DiDigital
75 Posts
On a side note, did I play you in a silly custom game the other night? It was in the 'Fun or Not' section, and the maps name was a reference to Texas? It ended up being 8 v 1 and you were the guy all alone. Either that or they had the same or very similar name to you. hehe | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12248 Posts
On March 30 2011 19:10 Gulzt wrote: beautiful how you put all that knowledge in 1 great article! Nice graphs and everything, well done! One question, how do you know for sure it's 1 point per 112 minutes? Well based on my initial game tracking where I included timestamps and recorded my bonus pool before each game, I believed it was 1 point per 2 hours. It wasn't until the designer said that it was 90 per week that I was able to verify that it was exactly 1 per 112 minutes using the system clock (changing the system clock alters your remaining displayed bonus pool when you relog). | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12248 Posts
On March 30 2011 20:40 DiDigital wrote: Anyone notice the huge increases in points for some players to start the season. One player I saw received 38 points for a win. While that is in the old range of values with bonus pool included I only had 7 bonus pool available at the time after my first game. Is it possible that the number of points possible has increased, or am I just missing something? Well, two things here. 1) Did it actually show in his match history +38, or did you infer that based on his displayed wins? You posted this message at around 6:40AM PST which is roughly 24 hours after the server went live, maybe give an hour or so for when bonus pool actually started accruing. So that's around 12, maybe 13 bonus pool, so 36 or 37 should have been the maximum. I have 14 bonus pool remaining at the moment (a couple of hours after you posted). 2) If you just inferred it, then it's possible he was moved from another league which would start his points around 73, then he just lost some games to drop down to 38. | ||
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Gulzt
Netherlands275 Posts
Great to know! I keep a spreadsheet to see my rating minus bonus pool, this will make it a lot more accurate! Thanks for explaining this. Regarding 'more points' in season 2, I get more points too in Platinum. That said, I'm matched against "slightly favored" players whereas for the last week I got "team even" only. So for me it's pretty much as expected. | ||
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Zog
57 Posts
Suppose a diamond player stopped playing 5 months ago. His MMR will be that of a diamond player, even though his actual level is probably lower (he's not as good as before and average level is higher than before). Now he plays his 1 placement match, he will be promoted to diamond again since 1 match is not enough to really change your MMR. So after 5 months of not playing, he plays one game, gets back to diamond. He can insta-quit his placement match for all we know and still get to diamond. How is that supposed to clean the ladders of inactive players ?? | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
On March 31 2011 02:58 Zog wrote: I have a question about the reset that I haven't seen answered. Suppose a diamond player stopped playing 5 months ago. His MMR will be that of a diamond player, even though his actual level is probably lower (he's not as good as before and average level is higher than before). Now he plays his 1 placement match, he will be promoted to diamond again since 1 match is not enough to really change your MMR. So after 5 months of not playing, he plays one game, gets back to diamond. He can insta-quit his placement match for all we know and still get to diamond. How is that supposed to clean the ladders of inactive players ?? your mmr DOES fade with inactivity. but your play level will not diminish that severely. i myself am a masters player and was inactive for nearly 3 months. ive had a near 75% win ratio ever since i came back. the ladder will just put you at a low diamond level and match you vs low diamonds until you can handle the higher levels. | ||
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whatthefat
United States918 Posts
I don't think anyone outside of Blizzard knows whether that is true. In fact I know Excalibur_Z thinks the opposite. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On March 31 2011 02:58 Zog wrote: Suppose a diamond player stopped playing 5 months ago. His MMR will be that of a diamond player, even though his actual level is probably lower (he's not as good as before and average level is higher than before). Now he plays his 1 placement match, he will be promoted to diamond again since 1 match is not enough to really change your MMR. So after 5 months of not playing, he plays one game, gets back to diamond. He can insta-quit his placement match for all we know and still get to diamond. How is that supposed to clean the ladders of inactive players ?? Everything you say is true. However, since the bulk of inactive players are inactive because they're uninterested in playing Starcraft 2, most of them won't be taking note of the ladder reset and feverishly logging on to complete exactly one placement match after five months of nothing. If the Diamond player you describe, whose five-month-old MMR is stale because it matches him against (now) much stronger opponents, plays more than that one game, he'll lose and his MMR will settle quickly at a new, correct value. If he only plays that one game and returns to inactivity, he'll most likely wind up in a new Diamond division as an inactive player. I believe also that MMR does not "fade" or decay with inactivity, for one simple reason: the system works best when it's an accurate measurement of a person's skill, and there's no way to know how being out of practice will affect a person's win rate. The matchmaking system is designed to correct inaccurate MMRs quickly, so that not as many initial placements are needed, but it still works best with the most accurate estimate possible, and given all the reasons MMRs can change, that "stale" MMR is the best there is. I have run into a number of people in games who have taken several month breaks and come back because of the reset, but the ones with whom I've talked have come back with the intention to play, at least for a while, not just complete one losing game to refresh their league placement. Incidentally, those people I've encountered who have come back after a long break usually have been insanely easy to beat and suffering strings of losses when they do, which reinforces the idea that there is no MMR decay. | ||
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Skillver
Austria1309 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2591/screenshot2011033020442.jpg) I checked their profile, and they got like 15 points for their win. Pretty sure thats a bug ^^ | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On March 31 2011 03:46 Skillver wrote: I checked their profile, and they got like 15 points for their win. Pretty sure thats a bug ^^ I can't see your mouse pointer on the screen. What exactly are you asking about? | ||
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
Every time one gets promoted or demoted it will get 73 points + spent bonus pool. So, let's say they lost their first match, got placed in Diamond, 0 points. Then they won the two next and got promoted! They'll have more points then it is possible to have winning 2 points, but that isn't a big deal unless for the first day... | ||
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Skillver
Austria1309 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12248 Posts
On March 31 2011 03:02 KillerPlague wrote: your mmr DOES fade with inactivity. but your play level will not diminish that severely. i myself am a masters player and was inactive for nearly 3 months. ive had a near 75% win ratio ever since i came back. the ladder will just put you at a low diamond level and match you vs low diamonds until you can handle the higher levels. I don't think it does. I think it's possible that uncertainty increases with inactivity, but we can't really gauge that at all, so it's just a guess. MMR certainly doesn't fade with inactivity because if it did, people would get demoted after months of inactivity upon playing a single game. | ||
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Plasmaster
United States7 Posts
Idk, it might be possible to predict MMR using statistical inference and confidence intervals based on available information. My AP Stats teacher is my SC2 Club's advisor so I should ask him. Although I'm sure Blizz hired a statistician to make sure.  Very nice info though, even though it only points towards the same thing people have been doing: Play many customs, few ranked, and try your best against any and all opponents. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12248 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/U8Kb0.jpg) As well as this blurb: The important thing to remember is that "favored" does not always mean "better" unless both players' points have approximately reached their MMRs. Until that time, the "favored" indicator only serves to determine how many points a match is worth, and is not an indicator of skill. | ||
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DiDigital
75 Posts
On March 31 2011 00:33 Excalibur_Z wrote: Well, two things here. 1) Did it actually show in his match history +38, or did you infer that based on his displayed wins? You posted this message at around 6:40AM PST which is roughly 24 hours after the server went live, maybe give an hour or so for when bonus pool actually started accruing. So that's around 12, maybe 13 bonus pool, so 36 or 37 should have been the maximum. I have 14 bonus pool remaining at the moment (a couple of hours after you posted). 2) If you just inferred it, then it's possible he was moved from another league which would start his points around 73, then he just lost some games to drop down to 38. It was straight from match history. His points seemed really high so I clicked on his history and saw it. I should note that this is in a 2v2 bracket. Bonus pool was at 7 when I posted, and his game was hours in the past. I actually think what happened was that the team was promoted / demoted after initial placement, to give them 73 points. The match was probably from the very end of last season, yet still in the match history. | ||
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