EPThttp://www.justin.tv/24california/b/278893657
[D] Terran play in bigger maps? - Page 12
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Karn3
United Kingdom134 Posts
http://www.justin.tv/24california/b/278893657 | ||
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[N3O]r3d33m3r
Germany674 Posts
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Aerakin
185 Posts
On February 05 2011 20:56 r3d33m3r wrote: i agree with the op, with new, large maps, terran needs tweaks to be able to compete. Why? Terrans can still compete on Shakuras Plateau, and it is a pretty large map. To me it seems that people severely over-estimate the power of chronoboost for protoss. Besides, terrans could explore the the usage of 'macro' OCs. Maybe not something extreme like 5 additionnal OCs, but one or two more than you have bases. After all, they can still be lifted off when you actually need to expend. Anyhow, I'd rather say we don't have enough data. The only real 'big' ladder map is Shakuras. I mean, if after a somewhat long period of time terran has like a 35-40% win rate on these maps, tweak. But don't mindlessly tweak. Kinda how Blizzard wasn't mindlessly buffing zerg. It takes time to discover new strategies. What if terran started out weak on these maps and someone found a great way to abuse these maps and THEN Blizzard buffed Terran? Goodbye balance >_> | ||
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Vari
United States532 Posts
it's based on nothing at this point and is sort of depressing that people seem to think the race is capable of so little. | ||
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imbs
United Kingdom320 Posts
14 Rumpleforeskin wrote: Unlike Zerg and Protoss, Terran cannot use their macro mechanic to increase their production. wat? u clearly dont understand the game very well if you think this. let me spell it out for you. mules = more income = more production buildings :D | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
On February 05 2011 08:57 DarkRise wrote: PF doesn't help you build workers any faster, unlike chrono or larva mechanics. Think please...What do you mean slowest econ growth? They have mules and the famous PF to protect their 3rd or 4th expo. The bigger maps would either make Terrans more aggressive ( more bunker/proxy rushes) or Turtle while doing drops hurting the opponent's econ. The problem with bigger maps is that their mech is slow so turtling and pushing with a max army is the way to go. Maps doesn't affect Terrans that much, their so versatile. | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
On February 05 2011 20:44 Dente wrote: It's hilarious how some people think that mech will be the key on these big maps. Watch goody and strelok getting destroyed with mech by naniwa (collo + mech) on lost temple, a small map. I can't imagine how much immobility abuse there can be on these big maps. Even with all your tanks together, you have a hard time against a protoss army (blink stalkers, zealots with legspeed, liftphoenixes, immortals). You need perfect emp and perfect positioning. Imagine that you need to spread your tanks out to defend. Protoss would just roll over it. Maybe thor + MMM will be the future. For me Battlecruisers and tanks feel very weak, while thors feel a little bit less weak (but still awefull). I would love to be able to play anything else then the boring MMM! Ya agreed, I'm loling at those people who say 'just mech, it worked for Jinro vs MC', it worked for Jinro on LT close and Scrap stations, maps where you can easily make a siege tank beeline to your opponents base. Meching with ineffective 3 food tanks without spider mine support on big maps will be just about impossible. If anything those big maps will favor MMM even more just to keep a semblance of mobility. | ||
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ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
On February 05 2011 05:17 Bagi wrote: : how much terran actually relies on 1-2 base plays and constant harass to win their games. Then dont rely on 1-2 base plays. It's not like terran is bad at macro, it's just their all in strats are fast and easy ways to win as terran if the map allows it. Terran could easily be a turtle race like in BW. | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
On February 05 2011 22:04 ibreakurface wrote: Except that tanks cost more and do less now, spider mines are gone and vikings are more expensive goliaths with less armor.Then dont rely on 1-2 base plays. It's not like terran is bad at macro, it's just their all in strats are fast and easy ways to win as terran if the map allows it. Terran could easily be a turtle race like in BW. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 05 2011 21:49 Mercury- wrote: PF doesn't help you build workers any faster, unlike chrono or larva mechanics. Think please... NO protoss is going to chrono their probes past the earlygame, chronoing tech units or upgrades is far better. Think please. Not to mention that you don't really need more than 50 workers as T because of mules, and that you can get in under 15 minutes. | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
I imagine if there's a genuine terran imbalance on large maps (can't deal with zerg/toss late game), either we'll go back to small maps, and some big balance changes will happen, or we'll stay on big maps (I hope), and some big balance changes will happen there. And humbug to the browder comment. There's plenty of examples of terran winning macro games against protoss. You just need to look for macro terran players, instead of the ones that are overreliant on early pushes/pressure. For example: Jinro beat oGsMC past 15 minutes, multiple times, and oGsMC beat jinro before 15 minutes multiple times (at the GSL season 4/3 respectively). Certain players have their strengths and weaknesses, and it doesn't surprise me at all that terran players are just better at the early game, since they always seem to want to end games early, and never bother with a macro game. | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
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VenerableSpace
United States463 Posts
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Hectic
Australia159 Posts
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
Not to mention that you don't really need more than 50 workers as T because of mules, and that you can get in under 15 minutes. Rofl, have u ever played SC2? Amount of workers, like with every race. Is base dependant. | ||
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
heres what I generally think about tvp: on small maps its early game T favored and late game P favored because of obvious reasons. on large maps its early game even because of longer rush distances for T which doesnt hurt P so much and late game is also evened out because P tends to become less mobile as the game progresses and T becomes more mobile and since P wants to attack with one huge ball, its easyer to pick him off with drops and multi attacks. | ||
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