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On January 31 2011 11:39 Mackus wrote:
If you tell the AI to do a specific build, will they transition after if the build you told them to do fails?
Oh you just made me realize the code in the test version will not allow protoss and terran to transition because it will always go right back to that chosen build. Normally after 10 minutes it can choose to change builds if it's army is smaller within a certain threshold which normally means it didn't do too well against your army in an engagement. It can choose to change builds once every 10 minutes, but if it is fine at the 10 minute mark it can for instance choose to transition at the 15 minute mark if things go downhill at that point instead. In that example it has a change to change again at the 25 minute mark. Zerg never did transition, it just makes adjustments in places. I will fix it so protoss and terran can transition as designed before I publish the final version.
The problem though is that even if it does transition it is a random transition in to what could be a build that will work just as poorly or if it gets unlucky it will randomly pick the same build. Beyond fixing the bug I ultimately want to add in a level of intelligence in build selection and transition. For instance, who says that only after 10 minutes can you decide the build you are doing is not going to work against your opponents build. That may be an easy way to code it and I can't fault the Green Tea author for that, but it just seems like you are throwing away a lot of chances to make good decisions. I want make a mechanism that will choose a random plan from the start that should work well as far as race matchup and map goes. But beyond minor deviations, I also want it to be able to quickly change course if it sees an opportunity to take advantage of some weakness its opponent has or if it needs to go in to emergency mode to fend off rush, cheese, or a devastating tech switch.
Edit: I may allow you to choose to force it to stick to a build, but that wouldn't be the default.
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That would be truly fantastic if you can manage to get it to do all of those things. Great job so far anyway though.
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On January 31 2011 14:13 Howl67 wrote:
That would be truly fantastic if you can manage to get it to do all of those things. Great job so far anyway though.
Thanks. I will try to advance this AI as much as I possibly can. There are some things I would like to do that I can not realistically do with my knowledge and available time of course. At this point I try to restrain myself from playing too much until I can release the next update, but of course I can't always help myself 
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I can't remember if it was mentioned in the thread, but I have noted some odd behaviour from the AI as well in my matches over the weekend.
In a ZvZ on metalopolis close positions, it kept attempting to take the 3rd between us. I forced a hatch cancel, then later destroyed a completed expansion. Then forced another 2 hatch cancels, army traded, and by the time I'd rebuilt it had taken the expansion again. It never tried to take a 3rd anywhere else and kept sending its overlords over, even though I had a bunch of mutas sniping them.
Anyway it eventually mined out and I rolled over it.
I've noticed the AI take expansions in odd places (like taking 3rds across the map in 2v2s). What sort of thinking goes into its expansion choices?
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I just noticed 2 people posted maps on NA with the fyn ai tag.
XrollAvenger posted a Xel'naga Caverns map. What is the difference from between the one you posted and what I posted Xroll? If you had any changes you wanted made, let me know. If I agree with what you did I might add it to the base code. If you didn't change it im not too sure why you chose to post a second Xel'Naga : /.
Seion posted the AI on War Zone (2v2 map). Seion, I don't think you got it published correctly. I made a guide to show you how to publish a map. If you have any problems following that guide let me know.
There will be a few more added steps next version for people that publish on maps I have not done yet, but it won't be too much different. Based on these changes though I will also be making the maps available for download with the AI already loaded ready to publish as well as the code by itself for people who want to look at it or do whatever. This will help the people on other servers publish the maps easily and quickly. I would be more than happy package other maps that you guys would like to see published with the AI on my site as well if you let me know which ones you want to see. I don't have any more slots to use to upload maps unless I use my girlfriends account (which I may do), but I can get the maps ready for you to publish yourself or maybe others will want to help publish some.
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On January 31 2011 15:08 Fugue wrote:
I can't remember if it was mentioned in the thread, but I have noted some odd behaviour from the AI as well in my matches over the weekend.
In a ZvZ on metalopolis close positions, it kept attempting to take the 3rd between us. I forced a hatch cancel, then later destroyed a completed expansion. Then forced another 2 hatch cancels, army traded, and by the time I'd rebuilt it had taken the expansion again. It never tried to take a 3rd anywhere else and kept sending its overlords over, even though I had a bunch of mutas sniping them.
Anyway it eventually mined out and I rolled over it.
I've noticed the AI take expansions in odd places (like taking 3rds across the map in 2v2s). What sort of thinking goes into its expansion choices?
I will have to get back to you as to how exactly it currently chooses expos at a later time. I will say that if the newest green tea ai didn't fix some of the things like the metal close position expansions (you can test the "faitest" map, since it happens to be metal), I will have to address that fairly soon if not with this upcoming build. I would think it generally should stick to expansions that are closer to its base than its opponents before choosing other expansions. I don't think that should always be the case though. For instance on metal close positions, I wouldn't mind if it on rare occasions took a risk and tried to sneak in a expo at far gold, close gold, close shared expo, far shared expo, probably in that order of likelihood. But I would think many times you would choose the main and expo of the close air starting location farthest from your opponent because it is closer ground distance and air from your base to that expo than it is from your opponents base and a big attack there would leave his main open for a counter or likely much easier to defend than an expo at your opponents front door. And it seems there should be code to try other expansions instead of failing to keep an expansion at a certain location over and over. And even farther down the road I plan to add code that will help it try and get out of situations where you are pinned in on 1 base unable to expand. Stuff like medivacs, warp prism, ovys, nydus worms etc and either move army out of base using "elevators" or sneak worker to far away expo so it can get the econ to bust out, but that is specific to being pinned on 1 base.
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On January 25 2011 14:12 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I'm currently messing around with a crazy balance mod and I LOVE this ai because it is much stronger than normal AI, so I can test out my crazy balance changes easier by either playing against AI, or putting them against each other... +100000 bonus points to fyndor for being AWESOME.
The repost of Xel'naga has my own experimental unit stats. etc. I wanted to be able to test my experiments on AI, and by placing AI against each other. I hadn't realised that I'd made a Public of that Xel'naga Caverns. Thanks for asking though, that's important.
Nothing I would have changed, the AI works fine.
~XrollAvenger 137 US/NA
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On January 31 2011 15:53 XerrolAvengerII wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 14:12 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I'm currently messing around with a crazy balance mod and I LOVE this ai because it is much stronger than normal AI, so I can test out my crazy balance changes easier by either playing against AI, or putting them against each other... +100000 bonus points to fyndor for being AWESOME. The repost of Xel'naga has my own experimental unit stats. etc. I wanted to be able to test my experiments on AI, and by placing AI against each other. I hadn't realised that I'd made a Public of that Xel'naga Caverns. Thanks for asking though, that's important. Nothing I would have changed, the AI works fine. ~XrollAvenger 137 US/NA
Ahh I see. Now I remember your post
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In your Faitest, playing as a Zerg, you don't spawn with 3 Larvae on your Hatch. When I was playing PvT, the AI never SCV scouted. He rallied his buildings to his army which was just walking from position to position trying to find my base. It also built its first expansion in between our bases on Metal instead of their Nat and put an OC on it. (We spawned close air/ground). Only issues I've noticed so far.
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On January 31 2011 15:18 fyndor wrote:I just noticed 2 people posted maps on NA with the fyn ai tag. Seion posted the AI on War Zone (2v2 map). Seion, I don't think you got it published correctly. I made a guide to show you how to publish a map. If you have any problems following that guide let me know.
Sorry about that, I must have chosen the wrong folder when importing. It should be fixed now. Thanks for all your work on this, by the way.
Edit: Also made a Scorched Haven version just to be sure I was doing it properly.
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
wait what? very hard ai cheats? i thougt only insane gets extra res o.o
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First game I played ZvP was excellent, despite some small flaws in the AI it was a relief playing the new AI after getting used to blizz's. Im going to keep checking up on this.
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On January 31 2011 17:24 Mufaa wrote:
In your Faitest, playing as a Zerg, you don't spawn with 3 Larvae on your Hatch.
@#$% I thought I noticed that while testing, but I was hoping it was just in my head. That makes me a bit nervous because I am not quite sure how to fix that  Thanks for the heads up. Does anyone know if the YABOT mod does that? It has a similar dialog at the start and I assume the delayed start because of the dialog must be the reason for the bug.
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Well I think my suspicions are correct. There is a "bug" that happens when a map does not initialize everything at the moment the map loads. It causes the larva to not spawn. I have seen people talk about it in forums so I know its not just me. I know YABOT deals with it, but YABOT is under GPL license and as I understand it if I use any YABOT code then I would have to GPL Fyn AI. I don't feel like I have the right to apply a new license to a code-base that I used from someone else's project. I may talk to the Green Tea AI dev just to see what he thinks so I can maybe just move on instead of getting bogged down by this bug since I absolutely can't release with this bug. If anyone for whatever reason knows a method to get these larva to spawn correctly after a delayed game start please let me know.
Edit: Now that I think about it YABOT has Green Tea in it. Maybe the Green Tea dev doesn't mind. I will for sure just ask him. Copying YABOT code would be the easiest way and I believe it has reset functionality as well which would be cool to copy.
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Hey! Just wanted to say thanks for the awesome work.
Funny how blizzard hard/very hard doesn't even compare with the very easy/easy versions of the Fyn AI =P
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Ya no kidding ^ Now if I need self esteem boost I go play the blizzard AI lol
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Apparently Texas was doing forced blackouts yesterday. One of the times the power came back on must have destroyed my motherboard. Fyn AI development is going to have to pause for a bit until I can get the updated code off that harddrive
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What the heck on medium ZvT the guy went and battlecruiser rushed me
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On February 06 2011 12:18 SlapMySalami wrote:
What the heck on medium ZvT the guy went and battlecruiser rushed me
The real question is, did it win? The current version of the AI does not take in to account matchups when choosing builds by the way. This will be something it will take in take in to account once I am able to implement it.
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On February 04 2011 00:14 fyndor wrote:Apparently Texas was doing forced blackouts yesterday. One of the times the power came back on must have destroyed my motherboard. Fyn AI development is going to have to pause for a bit until I can get the updated code off that harddrive
Should invest on a good UPS...
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EPT
