EPT
MeatyOwlLegs first player to 4000 points! - Page 9
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koOma
Norway462 Posts
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On January 05 2011 05:58 koOma wrote: on another note, is there any explanation as to why the ladder system is structured like it is? It really makes no sense to me, divisions / bonus pool / MMR etc etc It's for the noobs/casual players/broad mass of players. Bonus Pool gives you an incentive to play, Division makes you feel like your making progress even if your not and MMR matches you against people of your skill level and prevents noob-bashing as any good player will get to a high MMR very fast. Basically it makes SC2 beginner/noob friendly. Imagine it with a simple ELO, just a straight out ladder and rating decay instead of bonus pool. No beginner would want to play that game in 2010, Starcraft is allready pretty fucking hard for a beginner and there are way easier games these days. | ||
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Kojak21
Canada1104 Posts
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shtdisturbance
Canada613 Posts
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Noev
United States1105 Posts
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On January 05 2011 05:51 HypaSnipa wrote: I cant even understand the direction this thread has taken. He is 4000 points on the blizzard ladder. Thats all there is to it. Doesnt matter if another website says its 3700, doesnt matter if he cheesed some games and macroed others. A wins a win and 70-80% wins is astonishing especially at the top of the EU ladder. Grats to Naniwa, drop all the jealousy you freaks :o So it's not strange at all that a player who has never (as far as i know) even placed in the top 10 of any major tournament (MLG/dreamhack etc.) all of a sudden just gets #1 on the ladder by FAR? And while doing it he has a 80% win ratio. I know there is a difference between ladder and tournaments, but if he can go 26-2 vs the very best players in the world, then why hasnt he done anything in tournaments? And i dont get how he got so many points for wins either. If he is 100 points above everyone else he shouldnt be winning that many points, should he? Would just love to see an explanation as to why some decent player all of a sudden becomes the best. I think it has something to do with MMR or bonus pool or something. But even then that doesnt explain the insane win ratio :D. Whatever though, gz to Naniwa. | ||
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Bellygareth
France512 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:09 Woony wrote: It's for the noobs/casual players/broad mass of players. Bonus Pool gives you an incentive to play, Division makes you feel like your making progress even if your not and MMR matches you against people of your skill level and prevents noob-bashing as any good player will get to a high MMR very fast. Basically it makes SC2 beginner/noob friendly. Imagine it with a simple ELO, just a straight out ladder and rating decay instead of bonus pool. No beginner would want to play that game in 2010, Starcraft is allready pretty fucking hard for a beginner and there are way easier games these days. Exactly. Bonus points are there as an incentive to keep playing the game and prevent rating protection. In a no bonus elo system it's theorically possible to get very high stop playing and keep being first ad vitam. It's not good for the game if the first on the ladder is a guy that stopped playing 1 year ago even if he was very very good at it at that time. Another thing, even the most basic elo system is subject to point inflation in practice. In chess the FIDE elo system is considered around 100/200 point inflated at the moment compared to the first years. It's not bonus point but its comparable in effect. The only acceptable cause for Naniwa's success here is that he probably tried fucking hard to win every match. | ||
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CryMeAReaper
Denmark1135 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:14 Deadlyfish wrote: So it's not strange at all that a player who has never (as far as i know) even placed in the top 10 of any major tournament (MLG/dreamhack etc.) all of a sudden just gets #1 on the ladder by FAR? And while doing it he has a 80% win ratio. I know there is a difference between ladder and tournaments, but if he can go 26-2 vs the very best players in the world, then why hasnt he done anything in tournaments? And i dont get how he got so many points for wins either. If he is 100 points above everyone else he shouldnt be winning that many points, should he? Would just love to see an explanation as to why some decent player all of a sudden becomes the best. I think it has something to do with MMR or bonus pool or something. But even then that doesnt explain the insane win ratio :D. Whatever though, gz to Naniwa. HES NOT JUST A DECENT PLAYER, christ. People need to do some research before they just assume stuff. He has never gone to an MLG, nor dreamhack (since it was the first time they had sc2). He has ALWAYS been regarded as a top protoss, but because of his huge urge to BM and fuck up his career, he has been banned from multiple leagues and kicked from former team. Naniwa is rly fking good, and he dosnt just 1base like everyone says. Ive seen him beating morrow in a Brood War like macro game, and i have seen many macro replays from him. People just naturally think, or "want" to think bad about him, because of his (general) childish and idiotic behaviour. I dont even like him, but hes not bad. And with low MMR to begin with, and insanely high number of points gained for a period, its not THAT surprising, I bet any other top player smurfing could pull something similar off if they wanted to. | ||
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bball2
Canada49 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:23 CryMeAReaper wrote: HES NOT JUST A DECENT PLAYER, christ. People need to do some research before they just assume stuff. He has never gone to an MLG, nor dreamhack (since it was the first time they had sc2). He has ALWAYS been regarded as a top protoss, but because of his huge urge to BM and fuck up his career, he has been banned from multiple leagues and kicked from former team. Naniwa is rly fking good, and he dosnt just 1base like everyone says. Ive seen him beating morrow in a Brood War like macro game, and i have seen many macro replays from him. People just naturally think, or "want" to think bad about him, because of his (general) childish and idiotic behaviour. I dont even like him, but hes not bad. And with low MMR to begin with, and insanely high number of points gained for a period, its not THAT surprising, I bet any other top player smurfing could pull something similar off if they wanted to. Inspiring post - are we actually certain this is Naniwa? or Sjow? Or Jesus? It's impressive to see what can be accomplished with a bonus pool of 2000 .. but seriously; 4k points in a few weeks is ridiculous and kudos to whoever this is (majority says Naniwa, but who really knows?) i would really love to see some replays of this guy!! | ||
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norecha
Turkey42 Posts
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Dudemeister
Sweden314 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:38 Dudemeister wrote: theres rumours of him maphacking though afaik maphacks barely exists in sc2 and why in the world with naniwa use it. ive played against him myself a couple of times recently and hes winning because he plays good enough to do so. people are just being ignorant to think hes only cheesing or maphacking or whatever because they dont like him or because he dont perform well in tournaments but many just see this as a practice tool. i leave games i shouldnt and i make decisions i wouldnt in tournaments because thats what i want to do to learn. i test around alot. example: i can loose so many stupid games vs bad gamers where i just keep overmaking drones every time. even if he 2port rush me every single game i wont use mindgames or previous games to account and prepare for it before scouting it. just after each game i simply adjust some details and losing means i can improve and if im winning it usually means im having ineffective practice xd i think if everyone tried their best to win their games rather than learn in the ladder the entire ladder rankings would become alot different. im not saying naniwa wouldnt be at rank 1 im just saying this isnt something you should judge too too much how good or bad a player is ^^ | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15728 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:40 MorroW wrote: its great and good job to naniwa, first in ladder is first in ladder. if wins the top players :p but many just see this as a practice tool. i leave games i shouldnt and i make decisions i wouldnt in tournaments because thats what i want to do to learn. i test around alot. example: i can loose so many stupid games vs bad gamers where i just keep overmaking drones every time. even if he 2port rush me every single game i wont use mindgames or previous games to account and prepare for it before scouting it. just after each game i simply adjust some details and losing means i can improve and if im winning it usually means im having ineffective practice xd i think if everyone tried their best to win their games rather than learn in the ladder the entire ladder rankings would become alot different. im not saying naniwa wouldnt be at rank 1 im just saying this isnt something you should judge too too much how good or bad a player is ^^ Thanks for posting Morrow, I'm glad that you can shed some light on how professional players use the ladder. I've known this for some time, but its obvious that many people here haven't. There's a reason that a lot of pro-player streams seem to have such crazy all-in, over-aggressive, over-economic, or just really weird quick games. They are doing mass testing and not really giving half a shit. I'd go so far as to say that professionals use the ladder as a means to test the game, not themselves. And this is especially true if lets say...oGsMC was to match IMMVP. Both players would do their absolute best to reveal as little as possible about their recent advancements and discoveries in their play. They aren't going to use a new slick build order they came up with, because then the other one will analyze the shit out of it and make it way less powerful in a tournament environment. TLDR: Professionals try to win while revealing as little as possible. And revealing as little as possible takes priority over winning. | ||
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
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waffleduck
125 Posts
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:55 waffleduck wrote: Top players play to improve and play macro style. He cheesed and 1 base'd all in. Anyone can win a Bo1 against anyone else and thats what he did. naniwa has solid macro, naniwa barely ever cheese... you must be blind. btw grats nani even tho its not 4k mmr its still nice work sickest ratio eva ! | ||
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lolwhat
Sweden58 Posts
Also hilariously fun to see people saying he's just average,cheesing and not good at all. the wins he has are all against top europe players, his MMR is still the biggest in the world, therefor he is matched up against the best players. And I like how people are trying to blame nani for getting a easy division, like its his fault somehow. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:51 Adeny wrote: It's probably Isildur1. i loled also great post by morrow, keep posting, your insights always are very interesting ^_^ | ||
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Almisael
Austria235 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:23 CryMeAReaper wrote: He has never gone to an MLG, nor dreamhack (since it was the first time they had sc2). naniwa played at the dreamhack in group C with sjow servant and morrow. he qualified in one of those 8 byoc cups. | ||
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