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On January 05 2011 10:02 NearPerfection wrote:
I don't think the bonus pool is the problem. Since hes lucky enough to be in a division modifier of +315, his real rating is 3685, which is not unexpected or unlikely because he is a progamer.
Or he simply played intentionally poorly, though good enough to get promoted during his platinum rounds to get into a low tier diamond division.
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On January 05 2011 05:13 drewbie.root wrote:
its not bonus pool abuse, its more like MMR / ELO or w\e it is abuse. For nani's first 100 games he probably won 48 pts every game and lost 1 point. Then once he hit 3k points or w/e and things balanced out he had lost 0 of his bonus pool to losses (If you have 2000 bonus pool and you never lose until it runs out you will have 4000 pts, but when you lose games it becomes impossible to hit 4000). Also being in a new division probably helped him to not be favored for a long time too T_T
Q: How do these tiers impact matchmaking and points received per game?
A: They don't. Matchmaking is determined by your MMR versus your opponent's MMR, and the point values per game is determined by your opponent's MMR versus your adjusted (division modifiers excluded) rating.
from Z_Excalibur's division tiers thread.
As much as I want to believe that his being in a "weak" division contributed toward his point total, it just seems like he somehow kept a relatively low MMR to his opponents long enough to get those +48 games in a decent number.
Bleh, I hope it doesn't become a trend for a pro to get a new account before a reset or when bonus is pool is turned off (something blizzard plans to do in future ladders) and try to rush up to some absurd amount of points on a relatively low amount of games. Just feels like a complete mockery of the ladder for the people with games in the thousands sitting around 2900 and 3000
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On January 05 2011 09:56 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
You two have you gotta be just plain dumb to not understand. I can't even find it in my heart to try to explain it further to help you understand. And honestly it's not a good idea to publicly proclaim your inability to understand something that lots of other people understand and then boldly go in the opposite direction, as if this thing you don't understand is unimportant.
Tyler, i do get your point, and i do understand. And btw, is 24 pts / game in average really that high?
I think he catched the mmr of hes way before ppl think, since averaging 40-50 pts a game in the beginning is getting him very far very quickly. And the qoute you just did of me, i see now was a missquote. I didnt mean to qoute the first paragraph. I was not talking to you at that time, i was talking to the 123980 trashtalkers in this thread, bashing Nani for absolutely nothing but playing the game, and playing it good.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
This quoute from this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169830 should make it all clear why some people are skeptical of Nani's achievement.
On November 18 2010 18:12 Wargizmo wrote:
I was thinking about this today, and I think I understand why Blizzard do it the way they do.
Firstly it's obvious that they want divisions to have all players of roughly equal skill right? That's why some divisions have stronger players and some weaker, but why would that be? surely for accuracy's sake it would be better to have a sample of good players, mediocre players and weaker players in each division so that I could see my division rank and have an accurate idea of how good I am... maybe, but this is not Blizzard's goal and never has been.
Look at the players in your division, check out the players near the top and then the ones at the middle and then the ones at the bottom, notice a pattern? it's almost universal in every division that there is a direct relationship between games played and division rank.
If everyone in the division is of the same skill level, then the only way people are going to have more points than others is by playing more games. Your almost NEVER see a guy with 100 games ranked higher than someone with 200 games in the same division. Why? because if the guy with 100 games was significantly better he would be put in a higher tier of division to begin with.
Why would they do this? It's really ingenious. Basically anyone in the entire world can be #1 (or at least top 10) in their division if they just play enough games (with the possible exception of the very highest tier), the system has made sure that people who may not be that good are put in a division with others who aren't that good and can still feel that they are actually good.
The points modification is just the icing on the cake, people would kind of feel something was up if they were top of their division on only 1500 points... it would be really obvious about the weaker divisions, but if that gets inflated to 1815 points then it doesn't seem so bad, and certainly the guy who played 1000 games to get to the top of his E-class division can look at his point total and consider himself among the best in the world.
End result - people have a reason to keep playing, people are constantly rising in their division as long as they play enough games, and points totals remain roughly consistent with people who play more games = have more points.
Look at Nani's division http://www.sc2ranks.com./div/52745/division-marine-psi and compare that to White-Ra's http://www.sc2ranks.com./div/2700/division-feld-delta . You can clearly see the disparity in overall skill level. Nani's division has modifiers to boost the points of its players and that is how he reached 4000 points.
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On January 05 2011 04:31 Saiwa wrote:
Why does everybody hate Nani ? Dont get it.
He's a badmannered little twat. Worse than IdrA even
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On January 05 2011 10:49 LittLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 04:31 Saiwa wrote:
Why does everybody hate Nani ? Dont get it. He's a badmannered little twat. Worse than IdrA even
Excuse me while I recalibrate the zero on my manner-o-meter from IdrA to Nani.
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When you start a new account and win almost all your games you should ofcause go up in ladder very very fast until to reach player at your skill and only lose few points against them until you get there.... You should be getting +45 points and only lose 1-2 when his playing against the highest ranked players until he reach same points.
All his last games have been against top players and he have won almost all and that is why his ranking higher then all right now even when you take away bonus pool points. His the players with the highest MMR/points right now on EU and thats not the effect of bonus pool or anything that is wrong with the ladder.
If there was no bonus pool he would only get half the points yes.... but all ppl would also have alot less points so it would take the same time to get to the top.... I dont even get why so many dont get that.
When you make a new account your MMR goes up very very fast and you will be playing top players if you win many games but ofcause you should not be loseing alot points to them until you get to theri point lvl.
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Stop saying my division is full of garbage. 
Gratz to my division leader !
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On January 05 2011 11:18 TaKemE wrote:
When you start a new account and win almost all your games you should ofcause go up in ladder very very fast until to reach player at your skill and only lose few points against them until you get there.... You should be getting +45 points and only lose 1-2 when his playing against the highest ranked players until he reach same points.
All his last games have been against top players and he have won almost all and that is why his ranking higher then all right now even when you take away bonus pool points. His the players with the highest MMR/points right now on EU and thats not the effect of bonus pool or anything that is wrong with the ladder.
If there was no bonus pool he would only get half the points yes.... but all ppl would also have alot less points so would take the same time to get to the top.... I dont even get why so many dont get that.
When you make a new account your MMR goes up very very fast and you will be playing top players if you win many games but ofcause you should not be loseing alot points to them until you get to theri point lvl.
pretty much what this guy said. hate him or love him hes playing top players now and still has a great record. definitely nothing to sneeze at
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Basically, by starting a new account, he's "saving" his bonus pool points by having a high MMR and low rating, and beating higher players. So he gains points rapidly through playing unfavored matches, which minimizes use of the bonus pool.
Once he reaches high level games, he still has his bonus pool left. Whereas people who played for longer would have very little left.
Once the bonus pool is used up, he will leak his extra points to other players, but it hasn't been long enough.
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On January 05 2011 11:38 igotmyown wrote:
Basically, by starting a new account, he's "saving" his bonus pool points by having a high MMR and low rating, and beating higher players. So he gains points rapidly through playing unfavored matches, which minimizes use of the bonus pool.
Once he reaches high level games, he still has his bonus pool left. Whereas people who played for longer would have very little left.
Once the bonus pool is used up, he will leak his extra points to other players, but it hasn't been long enough.
Thats wrong because when you reach the top you will have used all your bonus pool and you cant have any left (other then the once you get each day) and ofcause he should be at the top when he wins almost every game against the top players. He havent been getting points from bonus pool in most of his last wins but his almost not loseing any games.
Bonus pool give you 2xpoints no matter if you are favored or not so if his playing top players and getting +40 points or lower players and getting +20 points dosent matter anything. Yes he would lose more points if he lost to the lesser ranked players but the chance of him loseing is also alot lower.
If you look at points and takeing away all the points both top 2 players have got from their bonus pool it looks like this:
MeatyOwlLegs 1517 ( 1,832)
LiquidTLO 1,449
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On January 05 2011 10:49 LittLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 04:31 Saiwa wrote:
Why does everybody hate Nani ? Dont get it. He's a badmannered little twat. Worse than IdrA even
The controversy he creates is rather entertaining for the community though.
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Australia8532 Posts
On January 05 2011 12:01 Lennon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 10:49 LittLeD wrote:On January 05 2011 04:31 Saiwa wrote:
Why does everybody hate Nani ? Dont get it. He's a badmannered little twat. Worse than IdrA even The controversy he creates is rather entertaining for the community though.
There boundaries i would imagine.. getting banned from tournaments would hurt you more than help you?
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On January 05 2011 11:23 Milith wrote:Stop saying my division is full of garbage. Gratz to my division leader !
LOL, best post ever
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On January 05 2011 06:51 Adeny wrote:
It's probably Isildur1.
lol, i thought the same thing. maybe isildur1 is naniwa too :-P
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So I've read thru this thread and have come to a few conclusions:
1. because of naniwas division he has reached the 4k point mark
2. naniwa is still a good player, so props to him getting to the 4k point mark
3. he's ranked 1st in the word in terms of points, but as we understand it's not such a great achevement (but at the same time, it kinda is cuz u gotta be really good to get there) due to point 1, but point 2 is still valid (as it's a fact)
So all I see is ppl getting mad because he's rank 1 when he shouldn't be up that high. Shouldn't we be turning this into a lolfest cuz he got there instead of hating?
I dunno about you guys but since we know Naniwa is all about the BM. Don't you think his 4k points is ultimate trollolol to the sc community? And what he was probably aiming for anyways?
I proclaim Naniwa as a successfull troll
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On January 05 2011 05:45 drag_ wrote:
26-2 is totally fishy. BW progamers at their peaks of dominance struggle to maintain 70% win rates. There is definitely something fishy.
It's also hard to believe how a guy who struggles to place well in tournaments miraculously discovered how to destroy all the top EU players.
Progaming win % and ladder win % are entirely different matters...
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I think it's sad that this achievement was gained by such a low manner player with such a new account. Would have been pleasant to see one of the real pros on their main account reach this milestone first.
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On January 05 2011 13:47 VoiceOfDecember wrote:
So I've read thru this thread and have come to a few conclusions:
1. because of naniwas division he has reached the 4k point mark
2. naniwa is still a good player, so props to him getting to the 4k point mark
3. he's ranked 1st in the word in terms of points, but as we understand it's not such a great achevement (but at the same time, it kinda is cuz u gotta be really good to get there) due to point 1, but point 2 is still valid (as it's a fact)
So all I see is ppl getting mad because he's rank 1 when he shouldn't be up that high. Shouldn't we be turning this into a lolfest cuz he got there instead of hating?
I dunno about you guys but since we know Naniwa is all about the BM. Don't you think his 4k points is ultimate trollolol to the sc community? And what he was probably aiming for anyways?
I proclaim Naniwa as a successfull troll
Add his amazing win ratio and that he has increased his profile 10fold to your list and your there
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EPT
