• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:06
CET 04:06
KST 12:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 101SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1820Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship WardiTV Mondays $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play
Brood War
General
Empty tournaments section on Liquipedia A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone I would like to say something about StarCraft StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Elden Ring Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI 12 Days of Starcraft
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 793 users

Assumptions - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
December 17 2010 23:14 GMT
#61
On December 18 2010 08:06 Treadmill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2010 06:34 archangel967 wrote:
On December 18 2010 06:29 KevinIX wrote:

- For having a healthy economy you should allways produce workers
- Zealots are good vs Zerglings
- Maps with short rush distances are bad for Zergs
- Large Maps are good for Zergs
- Protoss have the strongest lategame army
- Bunkers are for free
- Island expansions are easy to defend
- For fighting off cloack banshees or DTs you need detection
- Zerg units are less costeffective
- Mutalisks counter Zealots
- Cheese ends games fast
- Creep spreading is allways good
- High Templar are support units
- Defending is allways easyer than attacking
- Expanding lets you keep an advantage
- All-ins are easy to pull off


I guess you can call these assumptions, but this isn't what I have in mind when I trust an "assumption". Instead, I "assume" these:


- If you plan on playing a late-game macro game, you should always produce workers
- Zealots are good vs Zerglings, if the Zerglings can not get a full surround.
- Maps with short rush distances are bad for Zergs in a standard game.
- Large Maps are good for Zergs in a standard game.
- Protoss have the strongest lategame army [I don't believe this is true.]
- Moving bunkers is for free
- Island expansions are easier to defend against a heavy ground based army.
- For fighting off cloak banshees or DTs with minimal losses and to prevent future harass, you need detection
- Zerg units are less costeffective [I don't believe this is true]
- Mutalisks counter Zealots
- Cheese ends often games fast
- Creep spreading is always good
- High Templar are support units
- Defending is allways easyer than attacking [I don't belive this is true]
- Expanding lets you keep an advantage
- All-ins are easy to pull off [I don't belive this is true]

I consider these to be facts.


Now you're adding context to each of the statements which actually gives us something specific to talk about!!!


Yeah, I think that the whole point of the OP is that all of the 'assumptions' we make really rely on context. If your opponent has a lot of zerglings, zealots are a good unit to have to beat them. But if he has ONLY zerglings, then he's probably getting mutas soon and zealots will soon be less useful.

Here's one: if you see a colossus (tvp) you need to get vikings before you can deal with them. If the protoss is going 1-base colossus, though, its better to simple pump out a decent number of marauders and just roll the toss, especially if he then tries to expand. He simply won't have enough units to defend.

One that really bothers me is the whole "hellions RAPE zerglings/zealots/insert light units here". Yeah they do huge damage, especially with blue flame, but they only shoot about once every other month. Speedlings are the best way to catch and surround hellions - and when they are surrounded, they're only shooting one ling at a time, and they're almost certainly going to die even against an equivalent value of slings to hellions.


I like you came up with the hellions are good vs zerglings/zealots assumption. I actually made some tests and chargelots tear hellions apart in small numbers until 12-14 units. So in that context blue hellions are only good vs chargelots when they can get good flanks or when something tanks damage for them because throwing down a ton of factories to match the chargelot count doesnt seem like a good idea. But then again: Thats only an assumption
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Silmakuoppaanikinko
Profile Joined November 2010
799 Posts
December 17 2010 23:23 GMT
#62
On December 17 2010 23:23 KevinIX wrote:
Some of those assumptions are actually facts.
Not really:


- For having a healthy economy you should allways produce workers
I don't know, I don't produce workers when I place my 9 pylon or my 14 pool down or what-not, I'd say having a pool or not getting myself supply blocked at that point would be detrimental to my economy in the end. So hey, you shouldn't "always" produce workers.
- Zealots are good vs Zerglings
I don't know, when the zerg players has been pumping upgrades and is 3/3 for ground + crack, and I'm maxed at air, do you mind if I use carriers instead? Hey, another counter example.
- Maps with short rush distances are bad for Zergs
I'd say that Novice Steps of War is pretty zerg favoured
- Large Maps are good for Zergs
Lost temple?
- Protoss have the strongest lategame army
Quite general and subjective, do I even need to comment
- Bunkers are for free
Absolutely not, because there is inflation in StarCraft economics, this is what you really have to look out for when saying 'you can get it back' or 'paying for itself', money gradually loses its value as the game progresses.
- Island expansions are easy to defend
Also against a Terran who siege-shells you from across the ridge?
- For fighting off cloack banshees or DTs you need detection
Never tried fungal growth, EMP, storm, using splash, baneling autodetonate?
- Zerg units are less costeffective
The queen too?
- Mutalisks counter Zealots
Except that mutalisk dps is so low that in a 200/200 situation you'd wish you have something else that can also stop the zealot march of death before it kills of all your buildings.
- Cheese ends games fast
There have been enough 6pools who did severe economic damage but didn't end the game, prompting both players to basically start from scratch again.
- Creep spreading is allways good
I don't know, my 2v2 Terran ally once got annoyed with that he couldn't build stuff anymore because of my creep.
- High Templar are support units
What kind of support is a storm drop, what unit are they supporting?
- Defending is allways easyer than attacking
Not with mutalisks
- Expanding lets you keep an advantage
Or your expansion gets taken out just when it finishes.
- All-ins are easy to pull off
You try going 4gate blink stalker against Idra one day.

There, a counter-example to every situation, admittedly some of these are quite far-fetched but some are also quite reasonable situations showing that you don't want to think strictly into these rules at all times.
Workers and town centres are the ultimate counter to turtles.
Offhand
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1869 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-18 00:02:36
December 18 2010 00:02 GMT
#63
^^ Hyperbolic counterexamples don't really prove your point.

Think all-ins are easy? Well then BEAT IDRA. Ha! Just disproved that one, /smug.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
December 18 2010 00:11 GMT
#64
but his counterexamples are intelligent and funny nontheless
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Korean StarCraft League
03:00
Week 84
davetesta34
CranKy Ducklings30
SteadfastSC16
HKG_Chickenman12
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
21:00
Best Games of SC
Reynor vs Clem
MaxPax vs TBD
SHIN vs TBD
Rogue vs TBD
PiGStarcraft767
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft767
NeuroSwarm 181
RuFF_SC2 178
ProTech150
SteadfastSC 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 64
NaDa 49
Icarus 7
Noble 5
Dota 2
XaKoH 481
monkeys_forever164
League of Legends
JimRising 718
C9.Mang0409
Counter-Strike
summit1g10316
tarik_tv5861
minikerr34
Other Games
ViBE152
Mew2King54
Chillindude54
ZombieGrub37
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH93
• Hupsaiya 74
• HeavenSC 22
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 56
• HerbMon 45
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5774
Other Games
• imaqtpie1999
• Scarra857
Upcoming Events
OSC
8h 55m
IPSL
13h 55m
Dewalt vs Bonyth
OSC
14h 55m
OSC
1d 8h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 10h
Replay Cast
2 days
RotterdaM Event
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
OSC
3 days
OSC
4 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.