EPTblizzard and most of us wants to see more strategic depth and only see early all ins as an element of surprise.
Blizzard and the All-In - Page 2
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
blizzard and most of us wants to see more strategic depth and only see early all ins as an element of surprise. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
Is that the case now? No. | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
Fix that, and it'll still be strong, but not ultra-strong where it becomes every single terran players strat. | ||
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
On December 11 2010 06:51 Pixel. wrote: think bigger maps/ Nerf Mule/inject larve/chorno boost ^ User was warned for this post | ||
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Rakanishu2
United States475 Posts
On December 11 2010 06:49 LunarC wrote: I hope Blizzard is taking massive notes on how to improve their game by watching many many pro games and reading the community's and audience's reactions. Hopefully they are even watching BW progaming to improve their game, but I doubt they are doing anything I just mentioned. I think posts like this that just drag blizzard through the mud with completely disproven claims should be moderated. Blizzard itself has told us they watch these games, ladder, and they have chosen gamers from BW to showcase during events and such. Posts like these just break up a good thread. | ||
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Professor Oak
United States33 Posts
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mcleod
Canada350 Posts
On December 11 2010 07:09 Skyze wrote: I really think the heart of the issue with all-ins in SC2, is due to the "worker priority" attack settings.. That means your opponent has to micro EXTRA hard vs mass workers, not only avoiding them but attack-clicking on the opposing marines instead of just avoiding like in SC1.. That is why all-ins with SCVs are so damn strong. Fix that, and it'll still be strong, but not ultra-strong where it becomes every single terran players strat. you do realize that changing the priority could make it even harder? you could have ur scvs attacking in a line blocking lings, and the lings would ignore them and try to get around, probably causing even more problems for zerg this is not a solution im sorry to say i think the main issue with all ins is with zerg vs terran its very hard to scout it , very hard to stop it and if you over prepare for it but it never comes your very far behind the other matchups seem fine for all ins (can be stopped) i dont know what can be done to fix zerg, but hopefully blizz can come up with something | ||
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
I wasn't necessarily thinking about cheese, I was thinking of complete play styles. My concern was that we weren't seeing any Protoss builds other than Colossus/Stalker, and 'Toss was getting hammered on the ladders and in competition. This GSL though, we have seen 3 protoss in the final 8, despite having only 12 in the round of 64! And, I was thrilled to notice, no-one is relying on colossus/stalker anymore. I am just thrilled this GSL, despite the lack of many really epic series (except Clide/Leenock). I believe Blizzard has a duty to patch the game not only for balance, but for interest. Expansions also serve this purpose. But I really think we need to look at the history of Brood War, and see how it changed over time once it was in its "final" patched form. The "Bisu build" forge FE revolutionized PvZ, even as that match was stagnating. In SC2, we have MarineKing showcasing the power of those basic units, as well as HongUn and MC showing us how to incorporate stargates into Protoss play, without simply void-ray rushing (these builds are much more sophisticated than any gold-level play like that). Fruitdealer in GSL 1 showed us how to deal with reaper harass and cliff drops - even before reapers and medivacs got nerfed. One thing I think Blizz could really do to "revitalize" the game is to make top-tier tech actually worthwhile. For battlecruisers, carriers, and... whatever top tier stuff zerg has they never use (most zergs do end up using all their units in the long run anyway... maybe they need more units) to be actually useful, there needs to be a real benefit to tech to it - that is, the advantage of teching to a certain mineral/gas value of high tech units must be greater than an equivalent mineral/gas value of lower tech units, or there is no point in getting them. See how terran goes mass bio, with maybe a few thors or tanks, despite zerg and protoss both having good anti-bio options (antibiotics?), e.g.: colossi, HTs, banelings. There also needs to be better static defenses for all three races. If we want epic games, and epic generally means long, there has to be more options for defense. Narrow chokes and high-ground advantage are one, but a very slight buff to defensive structures would be nice, plus a build-time increase to deter the offensive use of them! Anyway, I digress, | ||
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IrT4nkz
229 Posts
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ltortoise
633 Posts
For instance, what if you simply couldn't spawn close position on LT/Metal? That would be a strict improvement to the maps in terms of all-ins, I think. There's nothing wrong with some maps being "close" and some maps being "far" to promote a diverse set of play styles, but how close is "close" and how far is "far?" I believe that some of the maps are simply too close for comfort, and that trying to balance units/macro for these situations will just hurt the game down the road as we play on larger maps. | ||
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theBlues
El Salvador638 Posts
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
A great example is in one of the bacchus osl (forget which one) where the finals was Julyzerg vs Best. Julyzerg 6 pooled the first game in order to shake his opponent's prejudices against Julyzerg. It keeps your opponent guessing and that is a very nice psychological advantage to have in any competition. edit: All-ins would never become the most effective strategy in such an macro-oriented game because it is much easier to defend than to attack. Because the 'all-in' attack solely depends on not being scouted and that scouting will definitely become more of a focus in SC2 once people figure out how to properly micro units, it will not dominate the future strategies. | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On December 11 2010 06:44 razy wrote: i think blizzard should start doing normal maps or implement the rating system so the ladder map pool consists of the best custom maps and also bring back vultures and goliaths instead of crapllions and thordumbs ;D Hellions are awesome, the only thing thats better with vultures are the spidermines, and yes i miss them but Hellions are a fine replacement. i wish we had Goliaths though and yes the number of 1base all-in at this point is ridiculous. FE should be safer and more rewarding | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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toadstool
Australia421 Posts
I think players are going to have to fine tune their builds a bit more, and have better sense of when a player is preparing to go all- in. | ||
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NightHawk929
79 Posts
It makes the game kind of boring to make one big push and pray that it works. I can understand making a big push, but i rarely all-in, the main problem for me is just that if it doesn't work, you're screwed. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5545 Posts
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gnutz
Germany666 Posts
Just watched Dimaga vs Strelok in CraftCup, 3rd game on DQ. Strelok goes for 2Rax, Dimaga can defend. Builds little defense, Strelok with expo and MM. Strelok walks out. Dimaga dead, because he has no units. No chance for him. And if he would go for an All-In on this map, he really had 100% chances to win versus Zerg on this map. This is not at all fun to watch -.- I hope chatchannels change something, that we can play more customs and get other maps in cups and tourneys. | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
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