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On December 04 2010 11:18 Greentellon wrote:
..I guess the most significant effect of this phoenix change is that you can get a decent amount of them faster with only 1 stargate? Nice!
Also the hallucination/observer changes are nice.
And about fungal growth: have fun, that's what it feels like when playing vs mutalisks. They can just swoop in and out as much as they like and my troops run back and forth between bases desperately trying to defend. Yes, I'm talking about blink stalkers.
Have fun.
+1
haha you are so right dude!
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Zerg just need to adapt some corruptors play in order to counter Phoenix. Muta cant compare to phoenix unless the ratio is 3:1
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Two major nerfs (Inf. not hitting air, and macro keystroke nerf) and one minor buff (adjustment of ultra splash) do not a good patch make.
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On December 04 2010 11:30 MiNDtriX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:26 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On December 04 2010 11:24 MiNDtriX wrote:
imho, zerg should be happy with this extremely minor nerf compared to how easy time they're having right now. Have you heard of this thing called 2 rax? yeah, ever heard of Fruitdealer?
So because Fruitdealer (an excellent player) is making short work of other people means that his entire race is having an easy time?
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On December 04 2010 11:29 Asshat wrote:
Oh the irony of watching zergs complain about highly mobile light air harass.
Wouldn't complain at all if there was a viable way to deal with them. As of now there's nothing in the zerg arsenal that can deal with phoenix harass without fungal growth. Mutas are hardly unstoppable for any race except zerg now. Goddamn, ZvZ was mildly interesting and now it's worse than bling v bling wars.
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On December 04 2010 11:26 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:22 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:20 Sfydjklm wrote:On December 04 2010 11:11 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:04 Sfydjklm wrote:On December 04 2010 10:59 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 10:58 FinestHour wrote:On December 04 2010 10:56 bonedriven wrote:
I think Infestor will become more useless? How did a buff make the unit more useless? Feel free to elaborate. zergs never win anything! are you trolling? u read my whole post and couldn't detect the sarcasm in that statement? no, i did detect it, that's what worried me. wanna bet that i can name 5+ tournaments terran have won post 1.1.2 per every tournament you can name that a zerg won? I don't really give a shit, terran and zerg have both won a shitload, zerg won both gsls. it wasn't a point i was trying to start some debate on, it was mocking people who are pre-emptively acting like it's impossible to win with zerg, which is exactly what they were saying while a zerg won GSL 1. no zerg hasnt won a shitload since first 2 months of beta. You gotta be a complete retard to think that zerg winning gsl somehow absolves teh balance team of hundereds of tournaments terrans have won.
Zerg have not won alot tournaments.... yes they won both gsl's but thats not alot...
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-1206-1-0-DESC
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Since zerg is going to expect a lot more phoenix opening and hallu research time is lowered I'm thinking air fakes using hallu will be a lot more common as well as just... going air.
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On December 04 2010 11:30 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:20 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:17 vyyye wrote:
What Blizzard is trying to tell me is that phoenix are now invincible? It's 100% impossible to kill them now, unless the protoss does something ridiculously stupid. Awesome, why the fuck was that necessary?
What if protoss learned to micro and spread their phoenix out to minimize fungal effect instead? I mean.. what the hell?
Other than obvious nice things like chat channels, I'm really not fond of the balancing. I don't get why they changed the void ray either, how was the speed upgrade in need of removal? Bunker build time again, why?
No, I don't get it. what? how is it 100% impossible to kill them? they are JUST like mutas in how easy they are to kill. u realize that to use gravitron whatever-the-fuck the protoss has to stop moving the phoenix right? Just like mutas, except Faster More hp Bigger range Smaller attack cooldown No counter in zerg army
Except hydralisks that are well positioned and spore crawlers. They also cost 50 minerals more and take much longer to make (but now not that much longer..).
I just think in general they need to up hydralisk speed. The reason they said they made them slow is because no one would use roaches.... but roaches are really important as meat shields anyways, it's not exactly their role for DPS.
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On December 04 2010 11:26 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:21 imareaver3 wrote:On December 04 2010 11:20 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:17 vyyye wrote:
What Blizzard is trying to tell me is that phoenix are now invincible? It's 100% impossible to kill them now, unless the protoss does something ridiculously stupid. Awesome, why the fuck was that necessary?
What if protoss learned to micro and spread their phoenix out to minimize fungal effect instead? I mean.. what the hell?
Other than obvious nice things like chat channels, I'm really not fond of the balancing. I don't get why they changed the void ray either, how was the speed upgrade in need of removal? Bunker build time again, why?
No, I don't get it. what? how is it 100% impossible to kill them? they are JUST like mutas in how easy they are to kill. u realize that to use gravitron whatever-the-fuck the protoss has to stop moving the phoenix right? Phoenixes are much faster than mutas, and Protoss has the option of using Phoenix to outrun the mutas, stalkers to blink after them, or storm for tons of AoE damage. Now Zerg has...the slower Hydras, the slower Queens, and the slower Corrupters/mutas. well they are faster but they are not MUCH faster. it's the same basic shit as mutas. they aren't exactly the toughest units as far as hp goes. it will definitely be harder to stop them. but u say impossible, which is hilarious. sure it will be impossible if ur opponent NEVER DOES ANYTHING WITH THEM
Firstly, I didn't say it was impossible. All I said was that Zerg wouldn't be able to efficiently kill phoenixes; P could never engage. But this isn't the important thing; Phoenix can't attack spore crawlers, and the loss of Flux Rays and the ability to pylon-wall are good enough changes for that MU from the way it appears now. It's ZvT, where a Zerg can no longer stop a Terran from dropping without going mutalisks, a change that pigeonholes Zerg into going mutas every game against Terran because otherwise they'll always get dropped everywhere without being able to do anything about it. A reduction in Z strategic potential isn't something we really want to see, especially as P and T are developing new strategies, tricks, and tactics all the time.
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On December 04 2010 11:31 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:30 MiNDtriX wrote:On December 04 2010 11:26 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On December 04 2010 11:24 MiNDtriX wrote:
imho, zerg should be happy with this extremely minor nerf compared to how easy time they're having right now. Have you heard of this thing called 2 rax? yeah, ever heard of Fruitdealer? So because Fruitdealer (an excellent player) is making short work of other people means that his entire race is having an easy time?
Didn't Fruitdealer get knocked out by a 2rax in GSL2, believe it was Foxer who did it on Jungle Basin?
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This is absolutely mind blasting. Looks like blizzard actually DOES listen to all of us!
I for one, am very interested in how some of these changes are going to affect the game.
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On December 04 2010 11:30 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:20 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:17 vyyye wrote:
What Blizzard is trying to tell me is that phoenix are now invincible? It's 100% impossible to kill them now, unless the protoss does something ridiculously stupid. Awesome, why the fuck was that necessary?
What if protoss learned to micro and spread their phoenix out to minimize fungal effect instead? I mean.. what the hell?
Other than obvious nice things like chat channels, I'm really not fond of the balancing. I don't get why they changed the void ray either, how was the speed upgrade in need of removal? Bunker build time again, why?
No, I don't get it. what? how is it 100% impossible to kill them? they are JUST like mutas in how easy they are to kill. u realize that to use gravitron whatever-the-fuck the protoss has to stop moving the phoenix right? Just like mutas, except Faster More hp Bigger range Smaller attack cooldown No counter in zerg army
u forgot to add *don't hit ground*
and
*shots dont bounce*
*costs 50% more min*
since we are counting everything
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We finally get a good patch, I mean come on! Chat channels!!!... And all you guys can do is whine. The buffs aren't big as people say, at all...
The hallucination change is tiny, and still the ability will be highly underused. The observer change will probably encourage me to make more than 1 observer, which Im liking. And The VR change changes nothing... Nobody ever really gets the Speed upgrade, and how often do you vs Battlecruisers, Carriers, or Thors, the VRs wint change much thats for sure. And pheonix... Idk, 5 seconds isnt huge, but I suppose a couple seconds might be a little difference.
I honestly am not sure how the infestor change will change zerg. But I don't see many people using them vs air in ZvT, I suppose not fungaling medivacs may be a bit tricky. In ZvP I doubt the change will be huge. 1 base pheonix play comes before infestors anyways, and a couple queens or a mass of hydras will deny it.
Overeactions imo. Im happy 
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Well... 1 or 2 stargate openings in PvZ have already gotten quite popular on the Korean ladders recently, this pretty much cements it as the go-to build for every macro game. So nothing really all that new to see here. The issue that actually bugs me is that every ZvZ is gonna be back to baneling/mutas now without the fungal nerf. Oh I suppose a late game broodlord/corruptor army just got a lot easier to counter by vikings since they can't be fungalled, but I guess that's not really a huge issue. The Z can just tech switch back into ultras if the T masses enough vikings and roll him.
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guys, you all should realize that people from blizzard a lot smarter then most of you/us....so quit your bitchin' and talk once you had a chance to play with the patch changes on ptr ;]
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- That's a really cheap observer...combined with the cheap hallucination, I think I'll have to start using Ravens more.
- Harvesting workers no longer ignoring enemy troops sucks. Makes scouting a whole lot less dynamic.
Otherwise I don't really care, to be honest.
edit: oh yeah, fukken chat; fuck year
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I think it's dangerous to buff Protoss air and nerf Zerg anti-air at the same time. I don't know if it's overpowered...but it gets my spider-senses tingling. And fungaling groups of Mutalisks as Zerg was soooo much fun. 
Personally, though, if Zerg needs better anti-air, I think they should buff the Corruptor.
I'm not going to panic, though. And the reverted-bug-fix-that's-apparently-now-classified-as-a-bug for the Ultralisk is a pretty significant buff. So I don't think there's room to panic yet.
PTR is a good idea, though. We'll see how long it lasts.
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zergs stop crying we cant put pylons under your ramp anymore but have our phoenix out slightly faster. seems fair to me! whats the deal with that race and the complaining.. i dont get it...
and what zergs forget that 1spore shuts down phoenix harass pretty effective. mutas kill shitload of cannons...
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On December 04 2010 10:54 Kvz wrote:
zvz is gonna be alot diff now
lol everyone will go muta ball (no need to fear fungal).
to be honest zvp is going to be a lot different due to the toss buffs. I feel like toss got a bit stronger now which is good. They needed it.
love this patch!
btw the creep spreading out evenly is something I gotta see!
Edit:
wtf bunker buff?! oh god this only encourages bunker rush cheese.
and no one really used infestors much...why nerf so hard.
Lol phoenix is going to be the new terror of the sky. I can feel it. Itll be easier to mass them and you cannot catch these guys.
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On December 04 2010 11:32 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 11:30 Sfydjklm wrote:On December 04 2010 11:20 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 11:17 vyyye wrote:
What Blizzard is trying to tell me is that phoenix are now invincible? It's 100% impossible to kill them now, unless the protoss does something ridiculously stupid. Awesome, why the fuck was that necessary?
What if protoss learned to micro and spread their phoenix out to minimize fungal effect instead? I mean.. what the hell?
Other than obvious nice things like chat channels, I'm really not fond of the balancing. I don't get why they changed the void ray either, how was the speed upgrade in need of removal? Bunker build time again, why?
No, I don't get it. what? how is it 100% impossible to kill them? they are JUST like mutas in how easy they are to kill. u realize that to use gravitron whatever-the-fuck the protoss has to stop moving the phoenix right? Just like mutas, except Faster More hp Bigger range Smaller attack cooldown No counter in zerg army u forgot to add *don't hit ground* and *shots dont bounce* *costs 50% more gas* since we are counting everything
pssst..... minerals not gas.
dont shoot me D:
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EPT
