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as most of you might already know, its possible to make a solid wallin on the bottom of somebodys ramp with 2 pylons, yet still be able to sneak in probes by putting a probe at the edge of the ramp, building a pylon and cancelling it
this leads to some very hard to stop ocannon rushes, like the one seen in GSL 3 ro64 match 30 choya vs annyeong game 2
here is a replay showing the trick
i hope blizzard removes this trick in the next patch, if they fix probe placement after making a building this could also fix probes sometimes getting stuck in impossible places after making a building, which can be very annoying at times
Poll: should blizzard remove the probe-through-pylon-wall trickno (477) 73% yes (179) 27% 656 total votes Your vote: should blizzard remove the probe-through-pylon-wall trick (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
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Definently not. This is one of those mechanics which has many more uses than just cannon rushes and is generally fun to watch (and to do, although I haven't really been doing it myself).
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I don't think so, I liked this feature from Broodwar as well. I think the glitches in broodwar made the game more enjoyable to a certain extent.
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bugs are the things that made Brood War so fucking awesome, so NO 
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I don't have a problem with it, and I don't think it would actually be possible for them remove it anyway. It's just the AI compensating for the fact that the probe can no longer be standing where it is when it starts warping in a structure.
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Hey I know, let's remove it and then make it so that Pylons can lower/raise just like Supply debots! No, wait! Let's make it so that the Protoss has to pay 25 minerals for 1 probe to get in and out.
I don't think they will remove it. It's not game breaking and it's a neat little bug to keep the opponent on their toes.
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No, you could do it in bw, i dont see why not now
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No reason to change this. It is the same way in BW and many other RTS games. Its the game moving the unit from a space it can no longer exist.
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Part of the game.
End of story
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it aint a bug, its how the engine works.
stop calling it a bug
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Indeed. i dont understand why blizzard gives the probe that AI in the first place. Why does it have to move after warping something? When it is snugged on a corner, perhaps yes (in fact it's used in many a great ways, especially in ums games xd). but on an open field??? Probes have one of the worst AI in SC.
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I think they should fix it and similar bugs. I'm all for using and abusing game mechanics to the best of your ability, but when it comes to things that aren't working as intended; it just comes down to ethics.
We've all seen vids of probes being able to pass through 100% building wall offs and abusing similar bugs. If a player goes to the effort of walling off to deny scouting (insert similar example here) and you're able to sneak a probe in abusing a design error, it's not really ethical is it? What should the walling player do, find a way to stack buildings?
Do players have to resort to exploiting bugs themselves to combat being exploited against? Of course not, it's silly. I know this might just be my illusion of grandeur. I know it sounds crazy but here it goes:
Let's try to play fair eh?
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it was the same in BW and it was good use for pylon walls to protect yoour expansion from vultures.
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I voted no because, I like how this bug affected the BW map Outsider. I would enjoy seeing something similar in SCII
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No man, this was in BW too, keep it in, helps the game stay more interesting.
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oh my god...Socke used this trick vs naema today (i think so...it was quarter at Dreamhack!!!)
It should stay.
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Given its only use is to facilitate cheese, absolutely they should remove it. Oh you can wall someone in then abuse a bug in the game engine to get through yourself, thats logical... Even if it had a greater purpose, glitching probes through wall-offs is just not something that should ever factor into any strategic play.
Just because something was in BW and/or is a bug that has potential to do something Blizzard didn't intend doesn't mean it should automatically be left alone.
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well it's a neat trick but also extremely abusable i think. not only for cannon rushes but also with the pylon ramp block. this way u can follow up cannon ramp block with more high ground cannons. not also denying expansion but threathening the main.
meh i dunno it's a cool trick but probably not worth the balance problems. and not as if we need to encourage cheese even more.
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I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off.
Edit: As the OP so graciously mentioned it is easy to do. I would make a new post, but I'm 'gtfo'-ing.
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On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off.
so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo
its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in
im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW
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They should definately remove this bug, it adds nothing good to the game, and it removes the choice on which side to leave the probe.
Imo it's just unfair.
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they should fix it, of course. As long as only one race can abuse a bug, while the other races can not the bug needs to be fixed! I mean come on peolpe, why should protoss be able to slide through walls, when drones cant? Isnt it the purpose of a wall, not to let units through?
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On November 28 2010 01:16 Alpina wrote:
They should definately remove this bug, it adds nothing good to the game, and it removes the choice on which side to leave the probe.
Imo it's just unfair.
They should definitely not remove this bug, it adds additional possibilities to the game, and it removes nothing good.
Imo it's just fair.
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I want more of these things, they add more fun for the people watching the game.
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Working as intended, imo.
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if probes can hop pylons I want better ling surround...
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The question is: Does it increase the available amount of interesting options for both players? If the answer is "It gives the attacking player an extra option for early-game wall-ins without giving the defending player any recourse", then no, it doesn't. Remove it.
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Gsl spoiler + Show Spoiler +idras opponent did it to him and saw that idra was going roaches, but still wasn't able to stop him. I think it's a very important scouting mechanical as far as the pylon/cannon rush goes. Zerg can have overlords over toss' base, why can't toss sneak a probe into zerg's? :D
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On November 27 2010 23:47 gongryong wrote:
Indeed. i dont understand why blizzard gives the probe that AI in the first place. Why does it have to move after warping something? When it is snugged on a corner, perhaps yes (in fact it's used in many a great ways, especially in ums games xd). but on an open field??? Probes have one of the worst AI in SC.
On November 27 2010 23:48 Danze wrote:
I think they should fix it and similar bugs. I'm all for using and abusing game mechanics to the best of your ability, but when it comes to things that aren't working as intended; it just comes down to ethics.
We've all seen vids of probes being able to pass through 100% building wall offs and abusing similar bugs. If a player goes to the effort of walling off to deny scouting (insert similar example here) and you're able to sneak a probe in abusing a design error, it's not really ethical is it? What should the walling player do, find a way to stack buildings?
Do players have to resort to exploiting bugs themselves to combat being exploited against? Of course not, it's silly. I know this might just be my illusion of grandeur. I know it sounds crazy but here it goes:
Let's try to play fair eh?
On November 28 2010 00:39 Elwar wrote:
Given its only use is to facilitate cheese, absolutely they should remove it. Oh you can wall someone in then abuse a bug in the game engine to get through yourself, thats logical... Even if it had a greater purpose, glitching probes through wall-offs is just not something that should ever factor into any strategic play.
Just because something was in BW and/or is a bug that has potential to do something Blizzard didn't intend doesn't mean it should automatically be left alone.
let me take a wild guess, all of u drones/scv/probes posters that cry "FIX BUG THIS IS AN EXPLOIT QQQQQQQQ"
never watched a single game in the map outsider in SC1 before? fact is that alot of bugs that probably wasn't intended by blizzard stuck in BW like hold position lurker, air units bugging out turrets, workers can glitch through minerals patches, and yet all those bugs were actually utilised by players and produce whacky strategies and games which are freaking awesome. actually made the game AWESOME!
these may not look pretty or some times doesn't look like how its suppose to work, bu these stuff adds a deeper level of depth to the game, and before u cry about exploits and unfair, similiar bugs were present in old starcraft and it did not broke the game at all, infact it improved it.
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On November 28 2010 07:26 Shizuru~ wrote:
fact is that alot of bugs that probably wasn't intended by blizzard stuck in BW like hold position lurker, air units bugging out turrets, workers can glitch through minerals patches, and yet all those bugs were actually utilised by players and produce whacky strategies and games which are freaking awesome. actually made the game AWESOME!
'I think it's awesome' isn't an argument against how illogical it is that 2 pylons block one player from getting probes out but let the other player get probes in.
I think 5 rax reaper and roaches with a range of 3 is awesome! Let me guess, you QQ'ingers didn't play beta?!
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its part of the game so keep it in. Only change it if it ruins the gameplay. Protoss don't exactly own everyone right now anyway.
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10387 Posts
You could do something similar to this in WC3, patching it out would be breaking tradition
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On November 28 2010 00:39 Elwar wrote:
Given its only use is to facilitate cheese, absolutely they should remove it. Oh you can wall someone in then abuse a bug in the game engine to get through yourself, thats logical... Even if it had a greater purpose, glitching probes through wall-offs is just not something that should ever factor into any strategic play.
Just because something was in BW and/or is a bug that has potential to do something Blizzard didn't intend doesn't mean it should automatically be left alone.
you clearly just started playing this game and have absolutly no idea how it could make game interesting in BW
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im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW
seriously.
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On November 27 2010 23:39 LittleeD wrote:
Part of the game.
End of story
On November 27 2010 23:43 Mutaahh wrote:
it aint a bug, its how the engine works.
stop calling it a bug
This argument makes absolutely no sense. Based on your logic, nothing is a bug.
Almost all strategy games try to model some kind of 'real' battle, so they try to model the laws of physics (in a sci-fi sense), etc, so we don't end up with some weird game with completely arbitrary and counterintuitive rules.
A probe jumping over obstacles does not make sense at all and is obviously a bug in the sense that is a probably unintended 'feature' that is caused by sloppy handling of a probe's position after it builds something. It does not correspond to anything real (in the starcraft universe). So from this point of view, this is definitely a bug and should be fixed.
You could argue that they shouldn't fix it because it makes the game more interesting, and that is entirely a matter of opinion, but I think the future of starcraft is pretty bleak if you feel that it needs bugs to make games interesting. Let's hope that Blizz and the players can make sc2 matches interesting enough without weird gimmicks, because this probe jump is nothing more than that.
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On November 27 2010 23:48 Danze wrote:
I think they should fix it and similar bugs. I'm all for using and abusing game mechanics to the best of your ability, but when it comes to things that aren't working as intended; it just comes down to ethics.
We've all seen vids of probes being able to pass through 100% building wall offs and abusing similar bugs. If a player goes to the effort of walling off to deny scouting (insert similar example here) and you're able to sneak a probe in abusing a design error, it's not really ethical is it? What should the walling player do, find a way to stack buildings?
Do players have to resort to exploiting bugs themselves to combat being exploited against? Of course not, it's silly. I know this might just be my illusion of grandeur. I know it sounds crazy but here it goes:
Let's try to play fair eh?
It's not a bug, it's not a design error, it's not a question of ethics. Suck it up, it's completely fine. Just because some people aren't exactly great at scouting/holding off a Cannon rush doesn't mean we need to bitch and moan about it. If we keep dumbing down SC2 like this pretty soon we'll have nothing interesting left.
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Should it be removed? Yes. It's a bug. No argument can deny this. It doesn't matter if it was in BW or War3, it's a bug. It should not be there.
Do I care if it gets removed? No.
That's the thing. A lot of things in this world SHOULD be fixed, but won't be because nobody cares, and this is an example.
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On November 28 2010 07:45 MDew wrote:
Should it be removed? Yes. It's a bug. No argument can deny this. It doesn't matter if it was in BW or War3, it's a bug. It should not be there.
Do I care if it gets removed? No.
That's the thing. A lot of things in this world SHOULD be fixed, but won't be because nobody cares, and this is an example.
That's a terrible argument. Just because it's a bug doesn't mean you should remove it. Remove any of the bugs in BW and that game's balance is completely thrown out the window. There are strategies that revolve around the exploitation of bugs because they have become an integral part of play.
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That sounds like a flaw in Blizzard game design then that should be remedied.
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On November 28 2010 07:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:
There are strategies that revolve around the exploitation of bugs because they have become an integral part of play.
That is true in the case of BW. But it still doesn't prove that you must rely on bugs to make sc2 as interesting as BW. I hope you agree that if they can achieve the same level of interesting gameplay without gimmicks as with gimmicks, then they should do it without gimmicks.
If they can't, then I would consider SC2 a failure. They had 10 years to observe e-sports and try to design a game with e-sports and competitive gameplay in mind.
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Where do you get an advantage from this, anyway? Now, that everyone knows this bug the players will know that the opponent might manage to sneak in a probe.
Btw, the defending player microed wrong. What is so difficult about keeping one stalker alive? Why does he chase a probe into the cannons?
Just build up your stalker force and snipe building cannons.
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On November 28 2010 08:00 Perscienter wrote:
Where do you get an advantage from this, anyway? No, that everyone knows this bug the players will know that the opponent might manage to sneak in a probe..
Uh you can get vision of above the ramp so your cannons can hit things even way after you've lost your initial probe that put them down, it's not some tiny inconsequential advantage, it has real game applications that can totally swing games.
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As always with such a feature I say leave it in, see how it plays out and if after a month or two people still claim it's terribly broken, then start thinking how to solve that.
Anyway, fun facts from testing this. It is possible for a probe to slide through as many buildings of the same player as needed in order to get out on some free space. It always prefer the shortest way to the first empty place nearby. If there are enemy buildings in the way, it will try to slide around them or it will stuck inside the building field, if there is no way out via own buildings.
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On November 28 2010 07:40 BrickTop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 23:43 Mutaahh wrote:
it aint a bug, its how the engine works.
stop calling it a bug Almost all strategy games try to model some kind of 'real' battle, so they try to model the laws of physics (in a sci-fi sense), etc, so we don't end up with some weird game with completely arbitrary and counterintuitive rules. A probe jumping over obstacles does not make sense at all and is obviously a bug in the sense that is a probably unintended 'feature' that is caused by sloppy handling of a probe's position after it builds something. It does not correspond to anything real (in the starcraft universe). So from this point of view, this is definitely a bug and should be fixed.
According to this text the whole game needs to be fixed. ^^
On November 28 2010 08:03 leakingpear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 08:00 Perscienter wrote:
Where do you get an advantage from this, anyway? No, that everyone knows this bug the players will know that the opponent might manage to sneak in a probe.. Uh you can get vision of above the ramp so your cannons can hit things even way after you've lost your initial probe that put them down, it's not some tiny inconsequential advantage, it has real game applications that can totally swing games.
How do you lose your initial probe before the first stalker?
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Probes are simply overpowered, nuff said.
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of course they should remove it in the next patch, cuz every patch needs to nerf toss remember?
seriously though, no. there's a price for it, toss pays 25 minerals every time. so do you think making a bunker at the zerg's FE location and salvaging it before it gets destroyed and get 100% money back is intended? i think not.
keep it as is
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I agree with the posters who said it wasn't a bug. It's not. It's just how probes deal with being forced to build in an area that causes wherever they occupy to no longer be accessible.
And since I don't believe it's a bug, I don't think Blizzard will do anything about it, unless it becomes extremely abusive.
Not really a big deal.
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It adds color imo, and isn't such a big exploit that it could break the game too be honest.
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This should NOT be patched! As most of you already said, this makes watching pros play more fun! ^^ But it was a good thread becouse I didn't know about it! :D
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Question : If Blizz does fix this 'bug', what exactly would happen to the probe if you tried to do the same trick that was displayed in the replay? Where else should the probe go? I like how everyone claims that this is a bug, when it's just part of the probe's design. How about evo blocking your opponents natural by abusing your canceled hatchery? How come no one cries bug to that?
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If this was also the same in Broodwar, like so many people on this thread have said, then I am sure Blizzard would have known about it and changed it, if they so wished to do... so obviously they did not want to change that for SC2!
Just my 2 cents...but hey what about the Overlord trick for zergs? Can't we fix that? 
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Btw, when will the Americans fix their broken English skills? Seriously, why do people have to dig into two different english styles, aka Oxford British English and American Retarded English. I don't get it.
User was warned for this post
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schmuk noobs QQing again? will this ever end?
Hoejja with his zerglings back from Desti against Bisu
Flash and silver with their nasty tricks on monty hall
those funny games from Outsider and Medusa ..
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United States7166 Posts
i think some people in this thread are confused. he's not talking bout canceling a pylon in order to get in, he's talking about hugging the ramp + pylon corner with a probe, then warping in a pylon behind the probe to glitch it through the ramp. then you cancel that pylon of course
it's the same glitch as it was in bw except it only works on the edges of a ramp, and you can always get it through on your first attempt
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I have no good argument for why it should be removed and I have not really seen a good one for why it should stay. To me it feels out of place in this game but obviously it's comes down to personal taste.
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It does in fact make cannon rushes incredibly more powerful.
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hah nice the replay is at BR.com.
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I don't mind it. If i loose to a cannon rush because of it i might but for now no.
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Question to those that support this: I'd like to hear how this makes the metagame more interesting and makes the range of options following a successful use of this exploit more interesting. The only reason I haven't rushed to say that it should be eliminated is that I haven't seen it yet and haven't been able to gauge whether or not it's a "you should quit if this works" or an "it changes the game but has numerous valid counters" situation. If it decreases the number of viable options in early-game matchups against a Protoss, then it should be fixed.
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On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW
BW was the better game so sc2 should emulate it as much as possible.
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On November 28 2010 08:44 Eminent Rising wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW BW was the better game so sc2 should emulate it as much as possible.
By that logic, we'd still be stuck on Pong.
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On November 28 2010 08:36 FabledIntegral wrote:
It does in fact make cannon rushes incredibly more powerful.
Yes, through that cannon rushes will become even more powerful against you.
Here, I'll try to help you. I have two articles for you.
Build Order
scouting
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And, big deal. If a player truly wanted to have vision of the high ground and to make more cannons, he can just wall it in and bring another to make a cannon on the low ground. I used to do this a lot before rediscovering the trick. You guys qq too much.
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Protoss.already has few early game choices for pressure.and.this.is.sort of their 2 rax rine counter to an early expo, leave it because if its not effective the toss is behind.so much.=
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saw that today for the first time and i was like wtf. Highly epic. Would love to see some hellion pushing through with the help of a landing barracks *g*, but i guess its only working with workers in sc2.
should stay in game imo, because it only makes a canon rush more fun to watch. They are really easy to stop anyway.
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I don't get why people think units should be able to move thru a solid wall. How is that not a bug?
So far the reasons I've seen are:
1. You can do it in broodwar.
2. Protoss be so far behind if they cannon rush and can't do this glitch.
3. Omg, you nub just get better at the game and it won't work.
4. It's not a bug, cause drone floating in BW was totally didn't get patched out.
In all reality, I could do counter point for all these arguments but that's just petty. I merely would point out this reminds me of drone floating which I abused the hell out of but it did get patched out. Pathing will always be a issue in RTS and it will be abused. It should be removed since you do not normally expect a probe to be able to move thru a solid wall since it's not one of the abilities of a probe. This shouldn't be a high priority for the patches but it should be address within the year(s?).
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Its not a bug though.
Any Probe that gets stuck where it should not be able to exist will find the closest path it can out of the wall of buildings. But it will only go a path that's adjacent to a structure. So you won't be getting any Probes through mineral lines or through rocks. You could potentially get one through another player's wall though, but it would be blatantly obvious and would require multiple Pylons to do so.
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On November 28 2010 08:46 Perscienter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 08:36 FabledIntegral wrote:
It does in fact make cannon rushes incredibly more powerful. Yes, through that cannon rushes will become even more powerful against you. Here, I'll try to help you. I have two articles for you. Build Orderscouting
Neither of those are relevant to what I'm talking about. Before trying to be a total dickwad, make sure you actually know what you're talking about, ok?
Here, I'll try to make it clear for you. Typically when people cannon rushed the wall, they did not have vision above. Now the cannons can shoot above with sight. On top of that, doing the cannon rush at the ramp previously made people play blind. Now that they can scout the opponent's build order, they can react much, much sooner and play significantly more optimally.
Neither of these are related to what you're talking about, unless you're suggesting that it allows the person cannon rushing to read your build order via scouting. However, by your post, that's clearly irrelevant. Toodles.
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Yep totally terrible. Remove it, please. The pylon wallin abuse is incredibly stupid anyway and shouldn't happen, then add in a one-way entrance possibility that's impossible to fail after 30 seconds of practice and it's as stupid as it gets.
Oh yeah, and to the people saying it was in BW, well you couldn't completely block a ramp with just 2 pylons. If that same possibility had been in SCBW I could almost guarantee you it would be banned. The mineral cargo trick was a bug and it was banned because it was too powerful, same thing here really.
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The little quirks in a game are what make it special.
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On November 28 2010 08:45 MichaelJLowell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 08:44 Eminent Rising wrote:On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW BW was the better game so sc2 should emulate it as much as possible. By that logic, we'd still be stuck on Pong.
nonsense. pong was bad. really bad.
bw is the by far best,most balanced, most entertaining RTS in existance.
totally different
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On November 28 2010 11:13 HollowLord wrote:The little quirks in a game are what make it special.
Like the newly found colossus bug that lets them walk on air?
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I firmly believe that the probe is the most imba unit in the game. I'm not joking. It can do ridiculous stuff like this, infinitely harrass a person, etc. etc.... NERF PROBE PLEASE
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You guys have to stop using the "it was in BW so it should be kept" excuse.
However, I do agree that this should be kept. This is harmless, and 2 probes were sent for the cannon rush anyway. A strong cannon rush could easily be accomplished by sending a probe up the ramp and having the other one build behind the ramp.
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if it is a bug and it's not intended, they would've fixed it by now
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someone mention the quirks aspect and how its part of the game a good comparison would be BxR and BxB and other types of things from Halo2 they were known bugs but were allowed in the competitive scene because they were balance and added something to the game
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... Okay bro, you've obviously not played SC1 before. It's a mechanic that we all enjoy has been used countless times for scouting and other ulterior motives. Stop being a freaking whiner and get over it.
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On November 28 2010 11:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 08:45 MichaelJLowell wrote:On November 28 2010 08:44 Eminent Rising wrote:On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW BW was the better game so sc2 should emulate it as much as possible. By that logic, we'd still be stuck on Pong. nonsense. pong was bad. really bad. bw is the by far best,most balanced, most entertaining RTS in existance. totally different
Pong was the best ping pong computer video game of his time. It was AWESOME!
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On November 28 2010 11:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 08:45 MichaelJLowell wrote:On November 28 2010 08:44 Eminent Rising wrote:On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW BW was the better game so sc2 should emulate it as much as possible. By that logic, we'd still be stuck on Pong. nonsense. pong was bad. really bad. bw is the by far best,most balanced, most entertaining RTS in existance. totally different
Pong is by-far the greatest game of its time. So great that the majority of home video game consoles in the mid-1970s have been hard-wired with Pong, variants of, and nothing but. Nolan Bushnell is going to crash and burn with this "interchangeable cartridge-based software". Why change what isn't broken? Pong rules.
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On November 28 2010 08:45 MichaelJLowell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 08:44 Eminent Rising wrote:On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW BW was the better game so sc2 should emulate it as much as possible. By that logic, we'd still be stuck on Pong.
Not true, also the graphics/system engine of broodwar is highly advanced. But its not the same logic, BW is considered, well at the least before, SC2, was considered the best RTS during it's whole reign since start to finish (debatable), so your conclusion is very idiotic, by your logic, I should just start misconstruing everything bro. Anyways, it makes sense that we should emulate what is idealized and Pong was not considered the best game, but was considered revolutionary. And I have little knowledge about Pong, but even if it was theonly game during its time, best != only.
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I don't think 2 pylons should be able to completely wall off a base from lings. But I don't mind probes sneaking thru them with a pylon trick. In sc1 lings could fit between 2 pylons, and I don't understand why they can't in sc2. It makes getting out even out of a 2 proxy pylon + cannon contain almost impossible.
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On November 28 2010 11:49 kineSiS- wrote:
Not true, also the graphics/system engine of broodwar is highly advanced. But its not the same logic, BW is considered, well at the least before, SC2, was considered the best RTS during it's whole reign since start to finish (debatable), so your conclusion is very idiotic, by your logic, I should just start misconstruing everything bro. Anyways, it makes sense that we should emulate what is idealized and Pong was not considered the best game, but was considered revolutionary. And I have little knowledge about Pong, but even if it was theonly game during its time, best != only.
Why do you hate Pong? You're trying to destroy the thriving Pong e-sports community with your hateful banter.
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I think they should fix ramps so you can't block the bottoms off with just two pylons...
This trick is a BW staple, and it would honestly kill me to see it removed. They already took our muta micro and macro, please god, don't take the pylon trick ):
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I get that it was in sc1 and wasn't broken then. You haven't seen the replay of how it is used in sc2. Cannon rushing with this bug changes the options P has. Simple: remove bug.
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This is like the extractor trick or the same kind of building trick with pylon or supply depot in BW, its a bug/glitch yes but it demonstrates the players skill in using it without ruining the game.
But Blizzard could go either way with this and I would be content.
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On November 28 2010 09:41 RageOverdose wrote:
Its not a bug though.
Any Probe that gets stuck where it should not be able to exist will find the closest path it can out of the wall of buildings. But it will only go a path that's adjacent to a structure. So you won't be getting any Probes through mineral lines or through rocks. You could potentially get one through another player's wall though, but it would be blatantly obvious and would require multiple Pylons to do so.
Doesn't make it not a bug - units not supposed to be able to move through buildings placed next to each other. Feature can be bypassed (unintentionally) by making a pylon and canceling. Not saying it's not a "good bug" but a bug nonetheless.
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If there's a wall-in, it should actually be a wall
none of this sneaking probes in crap
though i suppose a wall at the top would be fine
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well i think little bugs like this are awesome. I can remember fondly diablo cow farming, not really a glitch but come on and spending hours with my friends trying to figure out all the map glitches in the first halo. more recently trying to keep up with the latest glitches in mw2. as long as its not game breaking it just adds more charm. like a wrinkle on an old seaman's face. any game that is dearly loved will be exploited and this just endears it more in our hearts.
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On November 28 2010 10:11 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 08:46 Perscienter wrote:On November 28 2010 08:36 FabledIntegral wrote:
It does in fact make cannon rushes incredibly more powerful. Yes, through that cannon rushes will become even more powerful against you. Here, I'll try to help you. I have two articles for you. Build Orderscouting Neither of those are relevant to what I'm talking about. Before trying to be a total dickwad, make sure you actually know what you're talking about, ok? Here, I'll try to make it clear for you. Typically when people cannon rushed the wall, they did not have vision above. Now the cannons can shoot above with sight. On top of that, doing the cannon rush at the ramp previously made people play blind. Now that they can scout the opponent's build order, they can react much, much sooner and play significantly more optimally.
what? SCOUTING prevents cheeses like this
there is also called a BO loss if you fail to scout properly .. Good players scouts their areas to prevent cheeses. and there is also that one thing called luck, lets say a 4-player map, i scouted you early and you scouted me way later, by then you couldn't have known my strat when i already made my cheese build. same thing applies to all cheeses. if you lost, your just a weaker player in the match (or the unlucky player)
there are also blind counter ..
this is RTS you adapt to situations and the unforeseen consequences of your actions (wrong scouting).
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On November 28 2010 11:49 kineSiS- wrote:
also the graphics/system engine of broodwar is highly advanced.
I KNOW IT'S NOT IN 3D!!!
\
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Uxs6V.gif)
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On November 28 2010 11:44 SKtheAnathema wrote:
if it is a bug and it's not intended, they would've fixed it by now
Have you seen the colossus walking in space?
Oh but it's not a bug, it's working as intended: the colossus is spawning right where there's empty space!
And to everyone saying we could do it in BW as an argument: it is utterly irrelevant that a bug was unpatched in another game. (yes, even if that 12 years old game is its predecessor)
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On November 28 2010 07:33 LWr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 07:26 Shizuru~ wrote:
fact is that alot of bugs that probably wasn't intended by blizzard stuck in BW like hold position lurker, air units bugging out turrets, workers can glitch through minerals patches, and yet all those bugs were actually utilised by players and produce whacky strategies and games which are freaking awesome. actually made the game AWESOME!
'I think it's awesome' isn't an argument against how illogical it is that 2 pylons block one player from getting probes out but let the other player get probes in.
'I think it's awesome' isn't an argument against how illogical it is that 2 supply depots block one player from getting SCVs out but let the other player get SCVs in.
You must be a terran...
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On November 28 2010 15:16 out4blood wrote:
'I think it's awesome' isn't an argument against how illogical it is that 2 supply depots block one player from getting SCVs out but let the other player get SCVs in.
You must be a terran...
I don't know what to answer to such non-sense.
Why can't supply depots fly while overlords can?!?...
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On November 28 2010 11:48 MichaelJLowell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 11:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On November 28 2010 08:45 MichaelJLowell wrote:On November 28 2010 08:44 Eminent Rising wrote:On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW BW was the better game so sc2 should emulate it as much as possible. By that logic, we'd still be stuck on Pong. nonsense. pong was bad. really bad. bw is the by far best,most balanced, most entertaining RTS in existance. totally different Pong is by-far the greatest game of its time. So great that the majority of home video game consoles in the mid-1970s have been hard-wired with Pong, variants of, and nothing but. Nolan Bushnell is going to crash and burn with this "interchangeable cartridge-based software". Why change what isn't broken? Pong rules.
and this matters why?
it only was so big cause there was like nothing else during that time. pong is a bad and one dimensional game. there is nothing in any way special about it except that existed at a very early time.
comparing that to broodwar which after 12 years is still the single best multiplayer RTS and one of the best single player ones just doesnt work.
pong is lame and a remake would be a huge fail. bw is genius and a remake would own the vast majority of new games made.
different storys
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Obviously the 'it worked in BW' argument is not a justification for anything, it's a different game with different mechanics and what's balanced in one game might not be balanced in another. Having said that, the 'it wasn't intended' argument is equally stupid because there are tons of unintentional side effects of the game mechanics that people have discovered in this game that get used all the time without issue (e.g. mutalisk magic box technique).
The only thing that actually should be discussed is whether this is overpowered and whether it takes away from the overall dynamics of the game - at this stage I think it's probably too early to tell.
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On November 28 2010 08:45 MichaelJLowell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 08:44 Eminent Rising wrote:On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW BW was the better game so sc2 should emulate it as much as possible. By that logic, we'd still be stuck on Pong.
how are u comparing probe jumping to pong? nonsensical moron.
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On November 28 2010 01:13 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 00:47 garbanzo wrote:
I think it should be kept in there. I don't know how hard it is to do in SC2, but anyone who has watched (or played) enough BW knows that it is not that easy to pull off. so basically you said "i have no idea what the fuck im talking about but in bw this went unfixed so it should stay", srsly, gtfo its not hard to pull off, it doesnt require any additional micro, you just have to pick the right spot for your probe to be in im simply amazed how many ppl think this should stay in the game for the sole reason that it was possible in BW
This! And:
On November 28 2010 04:56 OmniscientSC2 wrote:Gsl spoiler + Show Spoiler +idras opponent did it to him and saw that idra was going roaches, but still wasn't able to stop him. I think it's a very important scouting mechanical as far as the pylon/cannon rush goes. Zerg can have overlords over toss' base, why can't toss sneak a probe into zerg's? :D
P already gained the advantage of the Zerg not being able to come out of his base (Pylon wall-in). Why should the P furthermore gain the second advantage of a scouting probe in the Zs base? Let's give one scouting/"cannoning" probe also stealth abilities, so that they can't get attack after they have walled & glitched into the base...
Yeah, without a doubt BW was/is a cool game. But where's the argument in this comparison: just because BW had the glitch, SC2 must also have it? Just play BW then. Where actually is the fun in watching someone performing the glitch in a match?
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On November 29 2010 02:05 Eminent Rising wrote:
how are u comparing probe jumping to pong? nonsensical moron.
Why do you hate Pong? And by extension, this country?
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Anyone else crashing when they try to load this replay?
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seems like they are going to fix it in 1.2 :o
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On December 05 2010 04:45 summerloud wrote:
seems like they are going to fix it in 1.2 :o
They made the pylon wall a different shape. It now takes three pylons as well. This bug is now a moot issue.
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United States7166 Posts
no you are both wrong, you can still glitch probes through building walls at corners of ramps. the same way, just warp in a pylon behind probe and it gets pushed through. ive tested it on PTR
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Voted no, I love my pylon/cannon block.
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I think it's a bug. If it was legit you would be able to do it with any other unit. They all run out of the way before the Pylon starts being built. There is no reason for the Probe to be an exception unless it was specifically programmed to be one, or if it's a bug.
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I voted yes, if you wall off, you WALL OFF.
If you want to get vision of the high ground, that's a calculated risk. Take that risk, but not through glitches.
And the argument "but it was in BW" is ridiculous; in that case I want the BW hydra back.
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EPT
