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SCFusion - WoL, HotS & LotV Build Order Optimizer - Page 56

Forum Index > SC2 General
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TaLuS
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany17 Posts
February 14 2012 20:45 GMT
#1101
Thanks delHospital!
@Psilo: No overlay, it calculates build orders. You say what you want to have and it caculates the fastest possible way to it.
Borskey
Profile Joined February 2012
160 Posts
March 21 2012 06:44 GMT
#1102
Having a problem with making Terran builds.
Basically, I want to modify an existing build but only after, lets say, the 44 food mark.

So I set a custom initial build order, but started running into problems. Specifically, things break at the part where the factory is supposed to be made, because workers never go into gas. I've tried several different things: even your example builds don't work (say, pick the 1-1-1 and make it spit out a banshee; it won't work)

Here was my attempt at
+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
13 Barracks (Naked)
15 Orbital Command
15 Marine
16 Command Center
17 Marine
18 Calldown MULE
18 Refinery
18 Refinery
19 Supply Depot
19 3*Move SCV To Gas
19 3*Move SCV To Gas
19 Bunker
21 Factory (Naked)
21 Barracks Reactor
21 Orbital Command
22 Calldown MULE
22 Supply Depot
23 Calldown MULE
25 Starport (Naked)
25 Lift Factory (Naked)
25 Lift Barracks (Reactor)
25 Land Factory (Reactor)
26 Land Barracks (Naked)
27 Barracks Tech Lab
27 Hellion
27 Hellion
33 Supply Depot
35 Hellion
35 Hellion
35 Calldown MULE
39 Lift Starport (Naked)
39 Lift Barracks (Tech Lab)
39 Land Starport (Tech Lab)
40 Land Barracks (Naked)
44 Barracks Tech Lab
44 Banshee


No matter what I tried, Fusion either told me it didn't understand, or if it accepted the build order it would just never build a factory.

So I decided to use the build order up till the bunker (I deleted everything after 19 supply, including the gas commands), and then set a way-point that could only be reached if it actually went in the gas and did the switching to get the reactor on the factory. Then I had my target as 2 marines 6 hellions 1 banshee with constant SCV production.

In simple, this is what your program spit out:
+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
13 Barracks (Naked)
15 Orbital Command
15 Marine
16 Command Center
17 Marine
18 Calldown MULE
18 Refinery
18 Refinery
19 Supply Depot
19 Bunker
19 Move SCV To Gas
19 Move SCV To Gas
19 Move SCV To Gas
19 Move SCV To Gas
19 Move SCV To Gas
19 Move SCV To Gas
20 Factory (Naked)
21 Barracks Reactor
23 Supply Depot
23 Calldown MULE
24 Supply Depot
27 Starport (Naked)
27 Lift Barracks (Reactor)
27 Lift Factory (Naked)
28 Land Factory (Reactor)
29 Hellion
32 Hellion
37 Starport Tech Lab

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
6:17.33: 332M 251G 47E 37/ 54S
Income: 1122M 228G
Buildings: 1 Command Center 1 Orbital Command 2 Refinery 4 Supply Depots 1 Barracks 1 Bunker 1 Factory 1 Starport 1 Reactor
Units: 29 SCV 2 Marine 2 Hellion
Research:

38 Hellion
40 Hellion
44 Banshee
49 Calldown Extra Supplies
50 Hellion
52 Hellion

Waypoint 2 satisfied:
7:40.22: 937M 466G 44E 58/ 62S
Income: 1378M 228G
Buildings: 1 Command Center 1 Orbital Command 2 Refinery 4 Supply Depots 1 Extra Supplies 1 Barracks 1 Bunker 1 Factory 1 Starport 1 Reactor 1 Tech Lab
Units: 39 SCV 2 Marine 6 Hellion 1 Banshee
Research:


So, I copied and pasted everything from that build up until it switches the factory and barracks, with the same waypoint and same target.The result: it still breaks because the SCVs again don't go into gas so it never builds a factory.

=(

matrius
Profile Joined February 2011
100 Posts
April 23 2012 20:31 GMT
#1103
Hi,

I just saw this output while playing around, and not sure if its right or not:

6 3*Probe
9 Pylon
9 2*Probe
11 Chrono Nexus
11 Probe
12 Chrono Nexus
12 Probe
13 Gateway
13 3*Probe
16 Chrono Nexus
16 2*Probe
18 Chrono Nexus
18 Pylon
18 Probe

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
3:39.78: 819M 0G 24E 19/ 26S
Income: 706M 0G
Buildings: 1 Nexus 2 Pylon 1 Gateway
Units: 19 Probe
Upgrades:

What is income? Can it be less than the amount of minerals left in bank at end of a build? Can it be less more than 50 minerals (the amount you start with)?

Thanks!
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
April 27 2012 19:35 GMT
#1104
After reading strategies like this, how difficult would it be to modify the code to determine optimal 2v2 builds (with the possibility of resource sharing after 5 minutes)?
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
t0b4cc0
Profile Joined May 2012
Austria12 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 15:13:27
May 02 2012 14:31 GMT
#1105
Hi!

I just wanted to figure out some timings for me and my mate for planing pushes for 2v2, to see at wich point we booth have the push ready.

€ the problem is, that the program always tell you that its good to make a 12 hatch or 14 cc.

But the problem is especially in 2v2, you will just get rushed to death when you booth fastexpand. (the program even tells me to doubleexpand for 40 banelings, wihtout any unit to defend it...)

Is there any way to tell the program to stay on on base (easy solution), or to expand after a certain point (best solution)?

The program is cool dont get me wrong, but its getting completely useless because u cant doubleexpand with a mate who expands too in 2v2, so that you ahve 5 bases but not even 1 unit to defend it.

regards

t


€ i found a complicated way around this...... i always make waypoints when i want to have a certain thing and look how long it need to come to this waypoint, lets say i need 4 marines and a bunker early (so that the program doesnt tell me that i need a fast expand cause i need marines and bunkers) then i cut down the time as much as possible until ive got it
the next thing waypoint is factorys with teclabs more marines
then tanks and siegemode until i have my build

that works quite ok with terran, but i have found a problem with zerg
with zerg it doesnt understand how to build workers constant
i dont want to have 7 workers at 3 minutes when i say "build drones constantly" ~.~
lugaidster
Profile Joined October 2011
Chile30 Posts
May 04 2012 12:04 GMT
#1106
@OP are you dead?? This program is incredibly useful and I hope that at least it can be updated to the newest version. (BTW, there's indeed a bug with the requirements for upgrades where it doesn't start previous upgrades). I hope you update the software, or at least open-source it so that someone else can update it (I can try).

Cheers!
Popof
Profile Joined June 2012
Brazil1 Post
June 03 2012 00:32 GMT
#1107
First I would like to congratulate you, what an awesome app! Incredible code's performance and extremelly usefull for SC2 players indeed. I hope you keep improving the software

Would like to also suggest you to add an "Pause" button aside with the "Stop" one. If I pressed pause, the program would temporarily stop using my cpu. Pressing "Resume" would make the algorithm continue from where is has stopped. That would be usefull because when the program is actually running, it sucks almost 100% of my CPU, so I can't test a build that is not totally completed yet (by actually playing it on the game); It takes a good amount of time till the completion likelihood reachs 100%. To test the build I have to stop the program, test it on the game and then start the algorithm from zero again.
I know you could say "ah, just wait the full completion time", but I think that addon would be really handy.
shadogi
Profile Joined November 2011
United States194 Posts
September 29 2012 00:44 GMT
#1108
I there! I just recently discovered SCBuildOrder, but I'm a little confused as to how it is used. I read through the program's thread, but didn't find the answers to my question and I didn't want to necro bump it! Hopefully, someone can answer it as it's pretty basic.

Let's say that I want a total of 3 hatcheries at the end of my build (ie. starting hatchery and 2 expansions), but I want one of them built before 4:00 and the other at 6:00. Does that mean under waypoint 1 (4:00) and 2 (6:00) I would put in one hatchery each because I want one built during each interval or do I put 1 under way point 1 and 2 under waypoint 2 as I will have 2 hatcheries at the end of way point 2?

I hope I'm being clear. Thanks!
SpaceYeti
Profile Joined June 2010
United States723 Posts
October 19 2012 14:26 GMT
#1109
I take it that this is no longer being updated? Just curious how accurate this app still is with whatever the current game build.
Behavior is a function of its consequences.
Schnullerbacke13
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1199 Posts
October 19 2012 17:40 GMT
#1110
its the best imo, but it seems it is discontinued
21 is half the truth
CarbonTwelve
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia525 Posts
November 30 2012 00:24 GMT
#1111
Not sure if anyone is still following this project, but FWIW rumours of my death were premature (what? there weren't any rumours? awww). In truth, it's been almost the complete opposite for me. I now have a 6 month old daughter, so for most of this year in my time at home I've either been preparing for her or looking after her. Things have started to settle into a routine lately though which has allowed me a bit of spare time for getting back into programming, including this project.

So I've released a new version. There have been quite a lot of changes included in this, and to cover some of the important ones:
1. The engine has been updated to the latest patch changes (v1.4.3+)
2. Various improvements to efficiency, however I've also stopped it from rejecting invalid build orders and instead it will now insert the appropriate commands to make it valid. This means that the game rate will likely decrease for most builds, but it should find the optimal build order a lot faster. You can see a good example of this with the 7 roach rush (7 roaches & 1 queen); in v0.9 it can easily get stuck with just 10 drones, but with v0.95 it now finds the optimal build almost straight away (within 1-2s in most cases).
3. The 'completion likelihood' no longer displays past 90%. The reason for this is that it's clear from the comments in the thread that many people were running the build until it gets to 100%, but this is not how this figure should be interpreted - the system will never be 100% certain of a build, and this 'likelihood' is a simple formula that can be used as a guide to whether it's likely to find a better build. So now it counts up to 90% and then after that just shows "> 90%".

As always (well, as it always used to be) let me know if you find any issues, and thanks if you're still interested in the app

As a teaser, more is on the way, and I'm hoping that the next version will be 1.0, and along with it will have the system load the building/unit/research requirements, costs, etc. loaded from XML. This is a big change though, so it may take a little while...
NeverContent
Profile Joined November 2012
Sweden2 Posts
November 30 2012 23:41 GMT
#1112
Yay! It's great that you're back. I have a question though. It says one of the new things is "Extra supply limits"... What does this mean? I initially thought that maybe you could go beyond 200/200 now, but I can't seem to get that to work.

Oh and one other thing... will the source code ever be public again?
CtrlAltDefeat
Profile Joined November 2010
Israel106 Posts
November 30 2012 23:46 GMT
#1113
Nice that you updated it, keep up the good work! Used to use this program a lot back when it was compatible.
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
December 01 2012 00:03 GMT
#1114
Nice! Any chance of a mac compatible version?
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
CarbonTwelve
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia525 Posts
December 01 2012 00:35 GMT
#1115
On December 01 2012 08:41 NeverContent wrote:
Yay! It's great that you're back. I have a question though. It says one of the new things is "Extra supply limits"... What does this mean? I initially thought that maybe you could go beyond 200/200 now, but I can't seem to get that to work.


Sorry, it's a reference to the Terran ability to call down extra supplies - there's an 'Extra Supplies' entry that allows you to prevent the algorithm from using that ability (so that it would only use mules.

Oh and one other thing... will the source code ever be public again?


Eventually, yes, I need to redo the folder structure in the google project page...

On December 01 2012 09:03 iHirO wrote:
Nice! Any chance of a mac compatible version?


Possibly, but it's not a high priority. There are still some fundamental things that AFAIK aren't supported in MacOS that would require a significant redesign to handle (ie, thread local storage).
NeverContent
Profile Joined November 2012
Sweden2 Posts
December 01 2012 00:42 GMT
#1116
On December 01 2012 09:35 CarbonTwelve wrote:
Sorry, it's a reference to the Terran ability to call down extra supplies - there's an 'Extra Supplies' entry that allows you to prevent the algorithm from using that ability (so that it would only use mules.


Ah... should've been obvious.


Eventually, yes, I need to redo the folder structure in the google project page...


Awesome... looking forward to that a lot. Thnx.
Schnullerbacke13
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1199 Posts
December 01 2012 02:04 GMT
#1117
great !! excellent work
21 is half the truth
ksyrog
Profile Joined September 2012
Poland15 Posts
December 09 2012 12:59 GMT
#1118
Great program, but can you add option to disable mineral patch probe micro, even Koreans cannot build first pylon at 00:44.
Flat 40/20/0 minerals per probe would be nice.
BTW, I found something interesting - your algorithm have tendency to build unnecessary assimilators.
CarbonTwelve
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia525 Posts
December 09 2012 19:22 GMT
#1119
On December 09 2012 21:59 ksyrog wrote:
BTW, I found something interesting - your algorithm have tendency to build unnecessary assimilators.


It does this because it values gas more than minerals. The build order is still the fastest possible, so it's trying to get as much gas in that time as it can.
Aelfric
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Turkey1496 Posts
December 09 2012 20:48 GMT
#1120
The real problem could be that if this kind of brute force builds are actually realistic and expandable enough for certain circumstances. I mean most of builds that are written as guides take into account of different situations through scout information. I know that this program is not about definitive guides but i fear this kind of mathematical builds may not be as practical as it sounds since it kinda requires some kind of perfection into itself...
Tomorrow never comes until its too late...
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