SCFusion - WoL, HotS & LotV Build Order Optimizer - Page 26

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

December 01 2010 22:27 GMT

#501

On December 02 2010 07:23 CarbonTwelve wrote:

I was planning to have it so that if the output changes the scrollbar will restore itself to where it was anyway. Ie, if you've got it scrolled to the bottom, and the output changes, it'll re-scroll to the bottom after. Would that be good enough, or do you still want to see the output at the top?

Could you do both? I think it looks more professional if the summary output is at a single spot on a corner of the UI, top sounds good. As for your idea about the scrollbar remembering its position that sounds great as well and I think you should add it.

TheRageKage12

United States161 Posts

December 01 2010 22:39 GMT

#502

Both sound good to me.

Jimb0v

11 Posts

December 01 2010 23:00 GMT

#503

On December 02 2010 07:23 CarbonTwelve wrote:
I was planning to have it so that if the output changes the scrollbar will restore itself to where it was anyway. Ie, if you've got it scrolled to the bottom, and the output changes, it'll re-scroll to the bottom after. Would that be good enough, or do you still want to see the output at the top?

While we are on the subject of output formatting, might I suggest you have some sort of more friendly build order output?

It would be really helpful just to have something like:

[game time] 9 pylon
[game time] 13 gateway
[game time] 15 Cybernetics Core

We know those are probes in the beginning. It gets more complicated later, and we need an easy way to know what units to be making. I don't have a clean answer for this problem, but the solution can't be a seperate line for every build probe event and a seperate line for every unit built.

Perhaps something like:
[[game time] 9 pylon
[game time] 13 gateway [ZZSEE]
[game time] 15 Cybernetics Core

This would assume your GW is constantly producing. but if thats not the case maybe you have some sort of indication about that.

Similarly, consider moving your probes to the assimilator being associated with the assimilator:
15 Assimilator --> gametime 1, gametime 2, gametime3

You will have to decide how or if to tack chronoboost and probe production. Perhaps you could tackle this with something like:
[game time] 15 Cybernetics Core ***

If you wanted to convey more information you could do:
CB Nexus @ [gametime], [gametime], [gametime]

Anyhow, these are just some idea. Ultimately, I wonder if the build order tester could come up with build orders that take into account player action as a resource. You have described how you added a penalty for not constantly making probes in terms of seconds. Would it be possible to add some penalties for things that take more attention to do? For example, even if a build order was more efficient chronoboosting 2 gateways 8 seconds apart, it probably is better int he long run to chronoboost them at the same time 1 second apart, 7 seconds in the future because it uses less of the players attention.

Jimb0v

11 Posts

December 01 2010 23:06 GMT

#504

I had one other thought, would it be possible to add in some fields for energy of spellcasters? For example, we might able to develop some timing pushes by entering a restriction so that i have X sentries with energy for Y force fields each, or perhaps even better would be the ability to enter a restriction so that I have the ability to do Z force fields, allowing the program to determine if it is more efficient to get 1 sentry with lots of energy or 3 sentries with enough for 1 ff each.

CarbonTwelve

Australia525 Posts

December 01 2010 23:18 GMT

#505

On December 02 2010 08:00 Jimb0v wrote:
Ultimately, I wonder if the build order tester could come up with build orders that take into account player action as a resource. You have described how you added a penalty for not constantly making probes in terms of seconds. Would it be possible to add some penalties for things that take more attention to do? For example, even if a build order was more efficient chronoboosting 2 gateways 8 seconds apart, it probably is better int he long run to chronoboost them at the same time 1 second apart, 7 seconds in the future because it uses less of the players attention.

I could possibly figure something out for that, but it's not exactly easy to determine when it's easier to do things together as opposed to apart, plus it's not easy to decide what kind of penalty to infer as a result of undesirable actions. I could do something simple like having a 1s time penalty for the fitness function for each action, but this would generally only affect pushing/pulling workers, which would be better achieved by just limiting how that happens.

Edit: Oh, and yes, other output formats are planned already. There'll be a few options for how detailed you want it.

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

December 01 2010 23:25 GMT

#506

On December 02 2010 08:00 Jimb0v wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lomilar solved that by adding an additional tab or button named Simple Format. In that format all it shows is the supply count and the mineral and gas counts. When you're playing you don't think of your build order in terms of "oh it's 5 minutes into the game that means i must build my spire", we think in terms of "i'm at 30 supply I need to make my spire".

Here's a sample output from Lomilar's Evolution Chamber v22, in Detailed Format :
+ Show Spoiler +

@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone
@0:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:17 M:54 G:0 L:3 S:7/10 BuildDrone
@0:27 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@0:32 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:34 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:44 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:47 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:03 M:201 G:0 L:3 S

/10 BuildSpawningPool
@1:13 M:55 G:0 L:3 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@1:22 M:53 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildDrone
@1:28 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:30 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:39 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:40 M:106 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildOverlord
@1:43 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:43 M:26 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildExtractor
@1:51 M:50 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildDrone
@1:58 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:05 Spawned: Overlord+1
@2:05 M:85 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone
@2:08 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1
@2:08 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:08 M:53 G:0 L:1 S:11/18 BuildDrone
@2:13 Spawned: Extractor+1
@2:13 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:15 M:50 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone
@2:15 M:0 G:0 L:0 S:13/18 MineGas
@2:15 M:0 G:0 L:0 S:13/18 MineGas
@2:17 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:17 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:22 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:25 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:28 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:28 M:75 G:16 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone
@2:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:43 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:43 M:135 G:36 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone
@2:43 M:85 G:36 L:0 S:15/18 MineGas
@2:45 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:45 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:58 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:58 M:196 G:64 L:1 S:15/18 BuildZergling
@3:00 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:13 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:17 M:302 G:100 L:1 S:16/18 BuildLair
@3:17 M:152 G:0 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone
@3:22 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:28 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:28 M:194 G:21 L:1 S:17/18 BuildZergling
@3:34 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:34 M:194 G:33 L:0 S:18/18 BuildExtractor
@3:43 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:43 M:243 G:50 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone
@3:52 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:58 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:58 M:318 G:78 L:1 S:18/18 BuildOverlord
@4:00 Spawned: Drone+1
---Waypoint 0---
At time: 4:00
Minerals: 235 Gas: 82 Supply: 18/18 Larva: 0
Drones: 16
Overlords: 2
Zerglings: 4
Bases: 1
Gas Extractors: 1
Spawning Pools: 1
----------------
@4:04 Spawned: Extractor+1
@4:13 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:13 M:351 G:108 L:1 S:18/18 BuildRoachWarren
@4:13 M:201 G:108 L:1 S:17/18 MineGas
@4:13 M:201 G:108 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone
@4:15 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:23 Spawned: Overlord+1
@4:28 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:28 M:265 G:148 L:1 S:18/26 BuildOverlord
@4:30 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:37 Spawned: Lair+1
@4:43 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:43 M:288 G:189 L:1 S:18/26 BuildDrone
@4:53 Spawned: Overlord+1
@4:58 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:58 M:363 G:230 L:1 S:19/34 BuildDrone
@4:58 M:313 G:230 L:0 S:20/34 BuildSpire
@4:58 M:113 G:30 L:0 S:19/34 MineGas
@5:00 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:00 Mining: +1 on gas
@5:04 M:156 G:49 L:0 S:19/34 BuildQueen
@5:08 Spawned: Roach Warren+1
@5:13 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:13 M:74 G:79 L:1 S:21/34 BuildDrone
@5:15 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:28 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:28 M:147 G:128 L:1 S:22/34 BuildOverlord
@5:28 M:47 G:128 L:0 S:22/34 MineGas
@5:30 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:30 Mining: +1 on gas
@5:43 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:43 M:170 G:184 L:1 S:22/34 BuildDrone
@5:53 Spawned: Overlord+1
@5:54 Spawned: Queen+1
@5:58 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:58 M:245 G:241 L:1 S:23/42 BuildRoach
@6:00 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:13 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:13 M:303 G:273 L:1 S:25/42 BuildRoach
@6:25 Spawned: Roach+1
@6:28 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:28 M:363 G:305 L:1 S:27/42 BuildRoach
@6:38 Spawned: Spire+1
@6:39 Spawned: Larva+4
@6:39 M:387 G:322 L:4 S:29/42 BuildRoach
@6:39 M:312 G:297 L:3 S:31/42 BuildMutalisk
@6:39 M:212 G:197 L:2 S:33/42 BuildRoach
@6:39 M:137 G:172 L:1 S:35/42 BuildMutalisk
@6:40 Spawned: Roach+1
@6:43 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:44 M:82 G

1 L:1 S:37/42 BuildRoach
@6:55 Spawned: Roach+1
@6:58 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:58 M:133 G:119 L:1 S:39/42 BuildDrone
@7:06 Spawned: Roach+1
@7:06 Spawned: Roach+1
@7:11 Spawned: Roach+1
@7:12 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@7:12 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@7:13 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:15 Spawned: Drone+1
Satisfied.
Number of actions in build order: 56
-------Goal-------
Drones: 20
Zerglings: 4
Roaches: 6
Mutalisks: 2
Bases: 1
Gas Extractors: 1
Roach Warrens: 1
---Final Output---
At time: 7:15
Minerals: 236 Gas: 184 Supply: 40/42 Larva: 1
Drones: 20
Overlords: 5
Queens: 1
Zerglings: 4
Roaches: 6
Mutalisks: 2
Bases: 1
Lairs: 1
Gas Extractors: 2
Spawning Pools: 1
Roach Warrens: 1
Spire: 1
------------------
Wed Dec 01 18:24:45 EST 2010: 17410.55695600476

And here it is in Simple Format:
+ Show Spoiler +

9 SpawningPool M:201 G:0
10 Overlord M:106 G:0
10 Extractor M:26 G:0
13 +1 Drone on gas M:0 G:0
13 +1 Drone on gas M:0 G:0
15 +1 Drone on gas M:85 G:36
15 Zergling M:196 G:64
16 Lair M:302 G:100
17 Zergling M:194 G:21
18 Extractor M:194 G:33
18 Overlord M:318 G:78
18 RoachWarren M:351 G:108
17 +1 Drone on gas M:201 G:108
18 Overlord M:265 G:148
20 Spire M:313 G:230
19 +1 Drone on gas M:113 G:30
19 Queen M:156 G:49
22 Overlord M:147 G:128
22 +1 Drone on gas M:47 G:128
23 Roach M:245 G:241
25 Roach M:303 G:273
27 Roach M:363 G:305
29 Roach M:387 G:322
31 Mutalisk M:312 G:297
33 Roach M:212 G:197
35 Mutalisk M:137 G:172
37 Roach M:82 G

bmn

886 Posts

December 02 2010 02:06 GMT

#507

Hey CarbonTwelve, for name suggestions how do you like "The Foundary" or "Xel'Naga Foundary" for your BO optimizer?

tehV

28 Posts

December 02 2010 05:18 GMT

#508

Not sure if this has been suggested, but I've hit a build where I want my nexus to have energy stored up. It would be awesome if I could have a 'Nexus Energy Amount 'as a requirement to be satisfied.

CarbonTwelve

Australia525 Posts

December 02 2010 05:22 GMT

#509

On December 02 2010 11:06 bmn wrote:
Hey CarbonTwelve, for name suggestions how do you like "The Foundary" or "Xel'Naga Foundary" for your BO optimizer?

Nice, I like em, although I'm not sure if they're a bit too similar to 'Evolution Chamber' (in their meaning). I'll keep em in mind though

On December 02 2010 14:18 tehV wrote:
Not sure if this has been suggested, but I've hit a build where I want my nexus to have energy stored up. It would be awesome if I could have a 'Nexus Energy Amount 'as a requirement to be satisfied.

Don't think I've had that suggested, but it's not hard to implement, just a matter of adding it to the interface I think. Will get around to it soon hopefully.

Of news to everyone though, I plan to do a release tonight with the Terran module available. I'm sure it'll have a few bugs with it, and certainly won't have all features implemented, but should be usable at least, and hopefully can get any issues with it sorted out quickly. From here I'll probably have more regular updates again fixing and implementing the little things that people have been raising for the Zerg & Protoss modules.

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

December 02 2010 05:30 GMT

#510

On December 02 2010 14:22 CarbonTwelve wrote:

Show nested quote +

Nice, I like em, although I'm not sure if they're a bit too similar to 'Evolution Chamber' (in their meaning). I'll keep em in mind though

Show nested quote +

Good news, can't wait to see your terran version.

TheRageKage12

United States161 Posts

December 02 2010 06:30 GMT

#511

I actually am really interested in this thing and downloaded the source code for it too. However, I haven't been able to build it in Visual Studio (keep getting compile errors). What plugins/features of Visual Studio did you use to make it? You said C++ in your initial post and it looks like you have .NET components for the interfaces or something.

PS: I want to be able to build it myself so I can play around with the code and maybe learn something from it. These build order optimizers have piqued my interest in computational biology.

Bartlett

12 Posts

December 02 2010 06:31 GMT

#512

On November 26 2010 12:15 CarbonTwelve wrote:

It already does that. The background of the edit control goes from red (0%) to yellow (50%) to green (100%) - does that not show for you?

Yup sorry I had the wrong (well not the latest) version; little box works a treat colours and all

Bartlett

12 Posts

December 02 2010 07:00 GMT

#513

On the whole summary at the top. I would happily just see a single line waypoint 1 - successful in the build order etc with the full summary at the top (or a separate tab). That being said if the scroll bar remembers its position sounds just as good to me.

I Do like how your text is formatted/aligned so its easy to import into excel. Makes it nice and easy to rejig the columns and trim it down so I can have it sitting on an a5 sheet of paper below ye olde monitor

Terran version wow! with that marauder teaser I seriously can't wait and I don't play Terran lol. My mates that do give me heaps usually about how many troops/tech (purely on numbers

) be interested to see if I can beat them at their own game with an optimal build or two!

On the Protoss side of things, is there a way to get a condition to say always build first pylon (supply) at 9? Pretty well for most builds I have tried it boils down to this but it'll still go through the 6/7/8 pylon (usually gateways at similar intervals before it figures its not a good thing to do).

I will say this has helped me quite a bit as I can get an extra 3-4 units out as Protoss vs some of my more 'standard' Toss opening strategies. More specifically against managing Zerg rushes with early lings.

CarbonTwelve

Australia525 Posts

December 02 2010 07:56 GMT

#514

On December 02 2010 15:30 TheRageKage12 wrote:
I actually am really interested in this thing and downloaded the source code for it too. However, I haven't been able to build it in Visual Studio (keep getting compile errors). What plugins/features of Visual Studio did you use to make it? You said C++ in your initial post and it looks like you have .NET components for the interfaces or something.

It uses MFC. If you're trying to build it in Visual Studio Express then I don't think it will work unfortunately. AFAIK MFC is only in the retail versions.

I do have plans to change the UI though, so hopefully this requirement won't be there forever

CarbonTwelve

Australia525 Posts

December 02 2010 09:00 GMT

#515

Aaaaaaaand, v7 is out

Terran module is available. It doesn't do addon swapping, and I'm not 100% happy with the way it builds units at buildings of various types, and it needs more encouragement to build orbital commands. Please let me know of any issues you find with it.

After this I hope I can go back to more regular updates every day or two, as well as fix up some of the outstanding issues with the Protoss & Zerg modules.

Edit: Btw, anyone know of any mods I can ask to change the thread title?

Edit 2: And as quick as that, first bug is found. Marines were costing 2 supply. Doh. Anyway, v7.1 is out

icezar

Germany240 Posts

December 02 2010 09:17 GMT

#516

On December 02 2010 18:00 CarbonTwelve wrote:
.....
Edit 2: And as quick as that, first bug is found. Marines were costing 2 supply. Doh. Anyway, v7.1 is out

I hope Blizz fixes that LOL :D

About the name maybe something with warp in the name cause this tool is warping in BOs compared to other versions!

ssnseawolf

32 Posts

December 02 2010 09:56 GMT

#517

On December 02 2010 18:17 icezar wrote:
About the name maybe something with warp in the name cause this tool is warping in BOs compared to other versions!

I like the name "Warp Prism." Keeps it in the context of the game and gives it a speedy feel.

Also, a feature request. I love the completion likelihood feature, but I keep the program running on my computer overnight sometimes. Can you add an option to stop the execution once progress reaches 100% (or a user-defined point)? That'd be delightful.

Thanks for the Terran update. You rock my world.

TheRageKage12

United States161 Posts

December 02 2010 10:00 GMT

#518

Mm yeah I gleaned that it was MFC but it wasn't building right out of the box. Then again, I've never used MFC and probably was doing something wrong. I'll probably try again sometime. I have Visual Studio Professional too so that shouldn't be a problem.

What are you going to change the UI to? I'd recommend the Qt libraries. I've worked with them before and they're quite easy to use.

CarbonTwelve

Australia525 Posts

December 02 2010 10:13 GMT

#519

On December 02 2010 18:56 ssnseawolf wrote:
Also, a feature request. I love the completion likelihood feature, but I keep the program running on my computer overnight sometimes. Can you add an option to stop the execution once progress reaches 100% (or a user-defined point)? That'd be delightful.

Yep, that's a great idea.

Btw, it will almost never reach 100% except for extremely simple build orders. The algorithm doesn't test every possibly build order so it can never actually be certain that the build order it has is the best one.

On December 02 2010 19:00 TheRageKage12 wrote:
Mm yeah I gleaned that it was MFC but it wasn't building right out of the box. Then again, I've never used MFC and probably was doing something wrong. I'll probably try again sometime. I have Visual Studio Professional too so that shouldn't be a problem.

Hmm, ok, not sure why. Maybe I missed checking in a couple of files that are needed?

What are you going to change the UI to? I'd recommend the Qt libraries. I've worked with them before and they're quite easy to use.

Yeah, Qt is probably the most likely one. Unfortunately I haven't used it before, but I've heard it's pretty easy so I figure it shouldn't take long to work out.

CarbonTwelve

Australia525 Posts

December 02 2010 11:21 GMT

#520

Just made another release - v7.2. This one fixes a bug where an SCV could be built while the CC was being upgraded to an orbital command, and adds the Armory as a requirement for Eng Bay L2+ upgrades.

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