EPTIf you can make a faster BO by using the close gas why not do it?
I think you should keep the close/far gas model if there is no penalty in speed.
SCFusion - WoL, HotS & LotV Build Order Optimizer - Page 24
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
If you can make a faster BO by using the close gas why not do it? I think you should keep the close/far gas model if there is no penalty in speed. | ||
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CarbonTwelve
Australia525 Posts
On November 25 2010 15:24 icezar wrote: I think the close far gas is more realistic. While testing you income for gas is very accurate! If you can make a faster BO by using the close gas why not do it? I think you should keep the close/far gas model if there is no penalty in speed. Yeah, it may have been accurate for some maps & starting positions, but probably not all. I think the algorithm should cater for worst case scenario, so assuming you've got perfect timings, then you should be able to achieve these times regardless of what map / spawn location you're in. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
If you could allow for tech buildings to be proxied with the hatch cancel trick. The 7RR can easily be scouted since you have 0 lings to fend off workers. If you just tell the program to save 300 minerals THEN put down the tech building while immediately refunding 225 minerals for the hatch cancel it would allow for some really cheesy and cool rush builds :D edit: out of curiousity why does it tend to do actions at specific times other stuff happens instead of as soon as possible? 2:32.00: 286M 0G 1L 0E 16/ 18S - Build Drone 2:32.00: 236M 0G 0L 0E 17/ 18S - Build Extractor 2:44.56: 340M 0G 0L 0E 16/ 18S - Build Queen 2:54.80: 300M 0G 1L 0E 18/ 18S - Build Hatchery 2:59.85: 50M 0G 1L 0E 17/ 18S - Build Drone 3:02.00: 21M 0G 1L 0E 18/ 18S - Move Drone To Gas 3:10.46: 100M 6G 1L 0E 18/ 18S - Build Overlord 3:10.46: 0M 6G 0L 0E 18/ 18S - Move Drone To Gas 3:10.46: 0M 6G 0L 0E 18/ 18S - Move Drone To Gas 3:35.46: 226M 53G 2L 26E 18/ 26S - Build Zergling 3:35.46: 176M 53G 1L 26E 19/ 26S - Build Zergling 3:38.08: 150M 58G 0L 27E 20/ 26S - Build Queen 3:38.08: 0M 58G 0L 27E 22/ 26S - Queen Spawn Larva 3:47.00: 83M 75G 1L 7E 22/ 26S - Build Drone 3:47.00: 33M 75G 0L 7E 23/ 26S - Move Drone To Minerals F.e. Why does it move the last 2 drones to gas the instant the overlord starts building? Why does it wait for the second queen to start building before injecting larvae, when it can do so at 25 energy? Why does the first extractor build with the drone exactly at 2:32.00, instead of at 2:31.99 ? It looks like an efficiency thing. | ||
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CarbonTwelve
Australia525 Posts
v6.2 release Changelog: Larva split per hatchery (first three displayed) Fixed a couple of small bugs with queen Spawn Larvae Creep tumors implemented Added completion likelihood display Just a note about the "Completion likelihood" box - it's basically just there to indicate how likely the current build is to be the best possible build. It's only an indication, and because it's a 'likelihood' it means that it will almost never reach 100%, so don't go sitting there waiting until it does  Personally I'd say if it reachs 80+% then it's pretty safe to assume the build won't get better.Also, I've added a PayPal donate button to the project home page. Anything that people can donate would be greatly appreciated and will absolutely go towards improving this project. I'm certainly not going anywhere regardless of donations, but they would definitely help to cover the time I'm investing in this , as well as going towards any tools that might help, and hopefully to help set up a new website that Lomilar and I have been talking about (might have more details sometime soon).Thanks - Carbon | ||
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Innsmouth-Zerg
Austria137 Posts
Target: Constant Probes, 4 Warp Gates, 1 Zealot, 2 Stalkers, 1 Sentrie Result after 11.319.145.165 games: 5:05.50: 53M 18G 18E 30/ 34S Income: 633M 215G Buildings: 1 Nexus 2 Assimilator 3 Pylon 4 Warp Gate 1 Cybernetics Core Units: 22 Probe 1 Zealot 2 Stalker 1 Sentry Upgrades: Warp Gate Transformation + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 10S - Build Probe 0:19.00: 73M 0G 10E 7/ 10S - Build Probe 0:36.00: 106M 0G 19E 8/ 10S - Build Probe 0:44.10: 100M 0G 24E 9/ 10S - Build Pylon 1:10.03: 150M 0G 38E 9/ 18S - Build Gateway 1:18.96: 50M 0G 43E 9/ 18S - Build Probe 1:35.96: 107M 0G 53E 10/ 18S - Build Probe 1:38.69: 75M 0G 54E 11/ 18S - Build Assimilator 1:52.96: 98M 0G 62E 11/ 18S - Build Probe 2:09.96: 180M 0G 72E 12/ 18S - Build Probe 2:15.03: 172M 0G 75E 13/ 18S - Build Cybernetics Core 2:26.96: 117M 0G 82E 13/ 18S - Build Probe 2:26.96: 67M 0G 82E 14/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 2:26.96: 67M 0G 82E 14/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 2:43.96: 199M 24G 91E 14/ 18S - Build Probe 3:00.96: 294M 48G 100E 15/ 18S - Build Probe 3:00.96: 244M 48G 100E 16/ 18S - Build Pylon 3:00.96: 144M 48G 100E 16/ 18S - Move Probe To Minerals 3:05.03: 181M 50G 100E 16/ 18S - Chrono Cybernetics Core 3:05.03: 181M 50G 75E 16/ 18S - Research Warp Gate Transformation 3:17.96: 255M 10G 82E 16/ 18S - Build Probe 3:17.96: 205M 10G 82E 17/ 18S - Build Gateway 3:25.03: 123M 14G 86E 17/ 18S - Chrono Cybernetics Core 3:27.72: 150M 16G 63E 17/ 26S - Build Gateway 3:34.96: 71M 21G 67E 17/ 26S - Build Probe 3:45.03: 131M 28G 73E 18/ 26S - Chrono Cybernetics Core 3:46.71: 150M 30G 48E 18/ 26S - Build Gateway 3:51.96: 55M 33G 51E 18/ 26S - Build Probe 3:51.96: 5M 33G 51E 19/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 4:00.80: 100M 46G 56E 19/ 26S - Build Zealot 4:00.80: 0M 46G 56E 21/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 4:05.03: 45M 54G 59E 21/ 26S - Chrono Cybernetics Core 4:07.91: 75M 59G 35E 21/ 26S - Build Assimilator 4:12.78: 50M 68G 38E 21/ 26S - Build Probe 4:25.03: 137M 92G 45E 22/ 26S - Chrono Cybernetics Core 4:29.78: 190M 101G 23E 22/ 26S - Build Probe 4:29.78: 140M 101G 23E 23/ 26S - Build Pylon 4:38.36: 135M 117G 27E 23/ 26S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 4:38.36: 135M 117G 27E 23/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 4:38.36: 135M 117G 27E 23/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 4:38.36: 135M 117G 27E 23/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 4:38.80: 139M 119G 28E 23/ 26S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 4:38.80: 139M 119G 28E 23/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 4:46.78: 212M 149G 32E 23/ 26S - Build Probe 4:48.80: 181M 157G 33E 24/ 26S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 4:48.80: 181M 157G 33E 24/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 4:55.47: 247M 182G 12E 24/ 34S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 4:55.47: 247M 182G 12E 24/ 34S - Build Stalker 4:55.76: 125M 133G 12E 26/ 34S - Build Stalker 4:55.76: 0M 83G 12E 28/ 34S - Move Probe To Minerals 5:00.50: 50M 100G 15E 28/ 34S - Build Sentry fairly impressive if you ask me | ||
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kmkg
Japan186 Posts
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 10S - Build Probe 0:19.00: 73M 0G 10E 7/ 10S - Build Probe 0:36.00: 106M 0G 19E 8/ 10S - Build Probe 0:44.10: 100M 0G 24E 9/ 10S - Build Pylon 0:54.19: 50M 0G 29E 9/ 10S - Build Probe 1:11.19: 107M 0G 39E 10/ 18S - Build Probe 1:24.45: 150M 0G 46E 11/ 18S - Build Gateway 1:32.10: 50M 0G 51E 11/ 18S - Build Probe 1:32.10: 0M 0G 51E 12/ 18S - Chrono Nexus 1:43.43: 87M 0G 32E 12/ 18S - Build Probe 1:56.10: 145M 0G 39E 13/ 18S - Build Probe 1:56.10: 95M 0G 39E 14/ 18S - Build Assimilator 2:13.10: 173M 0G 49E 14/ 18S - Build Probe 2:13.10: 123M 0G 49E 15/ 18S - Build Pylon 2:26.10: 144M 0G 56E 15/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 2:29.45: 175M 2G 58E 15/ 18S - Build Zealot 2:37.23: 150M 7G 62E 17/ 18S - Build Cybernetics Core 2:42.64: 50M 10G 65E 17/ 26S - Build Probe 2:42.64: 0M 10G 65E 18/ 26S - Chrono Nexus 2:42.64: 0M 10G 40E 18/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 2:42.64: 0M 10G 40E 18/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 2:53.97: 94M 32G 47E 18/ 26S - Build Probe 2:53.97: 44M 32G 47E 19/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 3:02.96: 126M 49G 27E 19/ 26S - Build Zealot 3:06.64: 60M 56G 29E 21/ 26S - Build Probe 3:13.97: 81M 70G 33E 22/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 3:28.29: 225M 97G 16E 22/ 26S - Build Stalker 3:29.75: 115M 50G 17E 24/ 26S - Research Warp Gate Transformation 3:29.75: 65M 0G 17E 24/ 26S - Move Probe To Minerals 3:37.33: 150M 10G 21E 24/ 26S - Build Gateway 3:37.33: 0M 10G 21E 24/ 26S - Move Probe To Minerals 3:41.80: 50M 12G 24E 24/ 26S - Build Probe 3:44.22: 27M 14G 25E 25/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 3:50.56: 100M 18G 4E 25/ 26S - Build Pylon 3:58.80: 92M 23G 8E 25/ 26S - Build Probe Waypoint 1 satisfied: 3:59.71: 52M 24G 9E 26/ 26S Income: 672M 38G Buildings: 1 Nexus 1 Assimilator 2 Pylon 1 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core Units: 19 Probe 2 Zealot 1 Stalker Upgrades: 4:07.71: 150M 29G 13E 26/ 26S - Build Gateway 4:07.71: 0M 29G 13E 26/ 26S - Move Probe To Gas 4:16.64: 100M 40G 18E 26/ 34S - Build Zealot 4:20.79: 50M 45G 21E 28/ 34S - Build Probe 4:20.79: 0M 45G 21E 29/ 34S - Move Probe To Gas 4:29.29: 100M 62G 25E 29/ 34S - Build Pylon 4:37.79: 95M 78G 30E 29/ 34S - Build Probe 4:37.79: 45M 78G 30E 30/ 34S - Chrono Cybernetics Core 4:42.39: 100M 86G 8E 30/ 34S - Build Zealot 4:54.79: 153M 110G 15E 32/ 42S - Build Probe 4:56.58: 125M 113G 16E 33/ 42S - Build Stalker 5:11.79: 196M 92G 24E 35/ 42S - Build Probe 5:12.71: 158M 94G 25E 36/ 42S - Build Zealot 5:20.39: 161M 109G 29E 38/ 42S - Build Stalker 5:25.16: 100M 68G 32E 40/ 42S - Build Pylon 5:29.04: 50M 75G 34E 40/ 42S - Build Probe 5:39.75: 144M 95G 40E 41/ 42S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 5:46.04: 230M 107G 44E 41/ 42S - Build Probe 5:49.75: 231M 114G 46E 42/ 42S - Chrono Warp Gate 5:50.16: 237M 115G 21E 42/ 50S - Build Zealot 5:50.71: 144M 116G 21E 44/ 50S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 5:57.56: 239M 129G 25E 44/ 50S - Chrono Gateway 6:00.71: 283M 135G 2E 44/ 50S - Build Stalker 6:00.78: 159M 85G 2E 46/ 50S - Convert Gateway To Warp Gate 6:07.45: 252M 98G 6E 46/ 50S - Build Stalker 6:08.83: 147M 51G 6E 48/ 50S - Build Stalker Waypoint 2 satisfied: 6:13.83: 92M 10G 9E 50/ 50S Income: 844M 114G Buildings: 1 Nexus 1 Assimilator 5 Pylon 3 Warp Gate 1 Cybernetics Core Units: 26 Probe 6 Zealot 6 Stalker Upgrades: Warp Gate Transformation | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
I find that larvae is the most important resource in the begining of the game, at least until 30 food if you want an economy build. This might be the equivalent of constant worker for zerg. Edit: Another idea would be to have an option to make the time a target. What i mean is: I want a lair by 7:00 with this option on, all build will end at 7:00 and then be scored by fitness. because i do not want the fastest lair but i want a lair no later than 7:00 and it can come up with what is better to build until then. | ||
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lowlypawn
United States241 Posts
On November 25 2010 20:42 CarbonTwelve wrote: Time for another small release: v6.2 release Changelog: Larva split per hatchery (first three displayed) Fixed a couple of small bugs with queen Spawn Larvae Creep tumors implemented Added completion likelihood display Just a note about the "Completion likelihood" box - it's basically just there to indicate how likely the current build is to be the best possible build. It's only an indication, and because it's a 'likelihood' it means that it will almost never reach 100%, so don't go sitting there waiting until it does Personally I'd say if it reachs 80+% then it's pretty safe to assume the build won't get better.Also, I've added a PayPal donate button to the project home page. Anything that people can donate would be greatly appreciated and will absolutely go towards improving this project. I'm certainly not going anywhere regardless of donations, but they would definitely help to cover the time I'm investing in this , as well as going towards any tools that might help, and hopefully to help set up a new website that Lomilar and I have been talking about (might have more details sometime soon).Thanks - Carbon V6.2 is awesome! I like the Completion likelihood box. I put in a simple build and it actually did reach 100% after 20 minutes or so. | ||
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CarbonTwelve
Australia525 Posts
On November 26 2010 07:17 lowlypawn wrote: V6.2 is awesome! I like the Completion likelihood box. I put in a simple build and it actually did reach 100% after 20 minutes or so. Yeah, simple ones that it reaches the best build within 10 evolutions or so will reach 100%, but anything even slightly complicated (such as 7RR) basically never will. It's just a guide, so hopefully we won't get posts of 'I left it running for 3 days and it still says it's only 90% complete'. Incidentally, complete change of topic (for this post at least), but does everyone know that you can open up multiple build orders (by clicking the New button or going File->New) and even have multiple build orders running at the same time? It won't make them run faster than running them separately, but if you're leaving it to run overnight or something then it might be worthwhile if you've got a few build orders you'd like to optimise. | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
I can save/load run multiple BOs at the same time!?! That is incredible, i just cannot believe how fast you are able to grow this! | ||
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CarbonTwelve
Australia525 Posts
On November 26 2010 08:51 icezar wrote: WHAT? I can save/load run multiple BOs at the same time!?! They still can't be saved/loaded, but you can have multiple BO windows open (and running) at the same time (including having ones for different races open at the same time). That is incredible, i just cannot believe how fast you are able to grow this! There's still plenty to do. Should I give away the spoiler that I've started on the Terran module? Hmm, I think I just did. | ||
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stratman
Canada110 Posts
One small bug: if you have a blank space in any of the fields instead of a 0, it says 'enter a positive integer' and then crashes/stops responding. | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On November 26 2010 09:12 CarbonTwelve wrote: There's still plenty to do. Should I give away the spoiler that I've started on the Terran module? Hmm, I think I just did. Can't wait | ||
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Bartlett
12 Posts
On November 26 2010 07:21 CarbonTwelve wrote: Yeah, simple ones that it reaches the best build within 10 evolutions or so will reach 100%, but anything even slightly complicated (such as 7RR) basically never will. It's just a guide, so hopefully we won't get posts of 'I left it running for 3 days and it still says it's only 90% complete'. Perhaps switching this to a colour gradient display might work a little better than a hard % figure? so in the 80-100 ranges its kind of a green colour. I personally don't mind the %'s myself as I am somewhat happy with confidence factors and the like. | ||
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CarbonTwelve
Australia525 Posts
On November 26 2010 12:12 Bartlett wrote: Perhaps switching this to a colour gradient display might work a little better than a hard % figure? so in the 80-100 ranges its kind of a green colour. I personally don't mind the %'s myself as I am somewhat happy with confidence factors and the like. It already does that. The background of the edit control goes from red (0%) to yellow (50%) to green (100%) - does that not show for you? | ||
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Bartlett
12 Posts
On November 26 2010 09:12 CarbonTwelve wrote: There's still plenty to do. Should I give away the spoiler that I've started on the Terran module? Hmm, I think I just did. Awesome mate! quite impressive how this has progressed so quickly! | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On November 26 2010 12:15 CarbonTwelve wrote: It already does that. The background of the edit control goes from red (0%) to yellow (50%) to green (100%) - does that not show for you? Shows for me. | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
On November 25 2010 07:39 CarbonTwelve wrote: I'm fairly certain it's both an issue with push/pulling drones (in current release it requires a hatchery, rather than any sort of base), and also (primarily) because the larvae spawning still isn't split per base and I don't think it even handles multiple bases naturally spawning larvae. Ver 6.2 seems to be much better. For my test build it found a better BO in 25000 K games (5 min on my PC) Waypoint 2 satisfied: 9:14.77: 635M 76G 5L 2L 2L 30E 118/118S Income: 1587M 190G Buildings: 2 Hatchery 3 Extractor 1 Spawning Pool 1 Roach Warren 1 Lair Units: 42 Drone 14 Overlord 2 Queen 48 Zergling 24 Roach Upgrades: Metabolic Boost Glial Reconstitution It has a hard time finding the optimal number of drones, if i run the same build without specifying the drones it never even comes close to that time staying around 24 probes and 9:30 min. | ||
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