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adx2infinitum
United States112 Posts
On October 25 2010 13:16 VoodooDog wrote: rine stimm should bring only 50% more firerate, not 100%. Marauder stim should be deleted. Than it will be balanced. Really??? No way that this minor change won't completely imbalance the matchup... Stim is the only thing allowing Terran to match Protoss' collosus dps in the lategame imo. | ||
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FrostedMiniWeet
United States636 Posts
On October 25 2010 12:31 wishbones wrote: unhh i thinkt hey got the part wrong where terran has upper hand in first twelve minutes sorry to say, but toss can fe super safely and terran cannot without getting worried. so check again blizzard! Right, and you know more than Blizzard. Perhaps you should check again. | ||
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unindel
United States206 Posts
On October 25 2010 13:18 DarkMoon wrote: As far as win percentages went, I think they mentioned that PvT was Terran favored across the board withing acceptable ranges EXCEPT for Diamond Korea, where Protoss was waaay favored. It's aberrations like that that set of red flags and make them watch for things and take closer looks at balance. It was actually the other way around. Protoss had a 6% advantage in Korea over Terran, a 10% advantage in NA, but Terran had a 4% advantage over protoss only in Diamond Korea. (see: http://www.youtube.com/user/noobclubru#p/u/2/9OYTt_8zYHI at around 7:45) | ||
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ScarletKnight
United States691 Posts
On October 25 2010 13:29 unindel wrote: It was actually the other way around. Protoss had a 6% advantage in Korea over Terran, a 10% advantage in NA, but Terran had a 4% advantage over protoss only in Diamond Korea. (see: http://www.youtube.com/user/noobclubru#p/u/2/9OYTt_8zYHI at around 7:45) My bad. I was going pretty much from memory at that point haha, didn't realize it was up on youtube already  Time to edit my post so I don't look like an idiot. | ||
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red_hq
Canada450 Posts
On October 25 2010 12:39 Dfgj wrote: lol P can FE fine and T definitely has a massive edge earlygame. Don't know what the above posters are on about. I'm interested for more information behind the marauder stim note, stimkiting with conc shell early on is part of the power of T because P's slower and more fragile units can be picked apart. I do agree on the marine stim note, however - P doesn't really develop counters to marine balls until T3. While I agree with you that marauder stim kite is just a little op. However protoss units ARE NOT FRAGILE! HP (+shields) of units/cost (gas = 1.5 minerals) (the higher the number the better) Marine 0.900 (+.1 with shields)<-->Zealot 1.5 Marauder 0.909<--> Stalker 0.800 Ghost 0.267<--> Reaper 0.400 <--> Sentry 0.400 Tank 0.474<--> Immortal 0.750 Medivac 0.600<--> Warp prism 0.700 Viking 0.457 <--> phoenix 0.600 Banshee 0.467 <--> Void ray 0.526 Battlecruiser 0.647 <--> Carrier 0.621 I left out Hellions, Ravens, Motherships, Cloxen, HT's, DT's, and archons because they have no equivalent on the flip side. With the exception of Stalkers and Carriers toss gets more or equal beef for its value and where it doesn't the units are in fact faster than terrans (Stalker and Carrier). However early game stalkers Superior speed is easily dealt with by conc shells as the marauders superior dps vs stalkers and 1v1 the marauder will win. Once blink is researched stalkers can kite marauders all day dealing their 14 and blinking away to recharge their shields and coming back to deal another 14 repeatedly while essentially taking 0 damage hence early game T>P and late P>T. Marauders also effectively nullifies zealots as zealots have 0 range and by the time zealots arrive to fight the marauders they will have died from the supporting marines, once charge is researched this again is balanced showing yet again early T>P and late P>T. Once protoss can effectively produce immortals and clloxen at a reasonable rate they hard counter every ground unit combination terran has to offer. That was just some more proof that Early  >  Mid = Late < | ||
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
On October 25 2010 12:39 Dfgj wrote: lol P can FE fine and T definitely has a massive edge earlygame. Don't know what the above posters are on about. I'm interested for more information behind the marauder stim note, stimkiting with conc shell early on is part of the power of T because P's slower and more fragile units can be picked apart. I do agree on the marine stim note, however - P doesn't really develop counters to marine balls until T3. Wait... you mean you actually trust the creator and balancer of said game more than some random posters on the internetz?! | ||
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Eminent Rising
United States174 Posts
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xAPOCALYPSEx
1418 Posts
The unit compositions are pretty much exactly the same every game; For P, Collosus/HT, Zealots sentries stalkers, and T, MMM with Vikings/Ghosts Also, terran have pretty much no problem safely harassing all game long with dropships. Edit: My point being that the real problem is early game where marauder stim/conc can kite infinite number of lots. I see the problem late game being that terran has to try to minimize splash damage throughout their army from the t3 threats to MMM, but same thing with HTs to prevent EMPs, and even still EMPs can eat through entire protoss armies | ||
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SonicBoom
United States20 Posts
On October 25 2010 12:36 CagedMind wrote: I haven't played much lately but is there actually a way for p to fe. The ones I seen before were horribly bad. I question this a lot. One of my big problems in pvt was that t could expo easier then me. Watch NEXGenius Blizzcon replays, he fe'd against Select and Loner. 1 gateway expand followed by 3 gateways + robo usually. He lost to a stim timing push by Select due to close positions and an ineffective dt opening. lost 2 games to loner. Other than that, he dominated. | ||
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
So I think that's how Blizzard does their balancing. so I guess it looks like this <=Early Game[ Terran OP----------][Balanced] -------------------------------------------------[Protoss OP---------------] ==> Meta Game Although they did say that this is the current state of how things look, I'm pretty sure they said this to say that's NOT how they want the game to be balanced and that is NOT their philosophy. They want it to be viable in all aspects at any time during the game. Before they do something drastic, i think they meant that they still are waiting for the community to find ways to fix it amongst ourselves. Although the balance isn't perfect, everyone on TL should have heard what they wanted to hear from the multiplayer panel, and that is that it's not perfect yet, but they'll still looking into changes so it will be just as good as BW or better hopefully. | ||
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jere
United States121 Posts
I am a huge advocate of T 1/1/2 and now with 1.1.2 thors can have a bigger role since storm does not hurt as much and no feedback on them. And Protoss have other options than colossus to HT too. I think the game may be stuck in a bad way with TvP right now but just needs time to adjust out of the comfort zone. | ||
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SaDGoWu
United States133 Posts
Concussive Shells comes at first confrontation, Stim and Combat shield all come before Charge, Colossi, Psi Storm, but Charge, Colossi and Charge storm are more expensive but more effective tech than CS,Stim,Combat shield so obviously this is going to exist. Poor planning. | ||
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
On October 25 2010 13:16 VoodooDog wrote: rine stimm should bring only 50% more firerate, not 100%. Marauder stim should be deleted. Than it will be balanced. good that they talked like 10minutes about stim and said it's fine and they won't take it away from the marauder... but maybe (hopefully) you're just trolling... btw, i seriously think zerg should only be able to walk on creep. On October 25 2010 13:03 cHaNg-sTa wrote: Maybe they forgot to attack after stimming them. In all seriousness, this is a bad way to balance the game. Sure, the win ratio is probably around 50/50 right now, but to have a game based where the first portion of the game favors one team while the later portion favors the other is very discouraging in terms of balance. that's what bowder (or kim, whatever) said too i think... so they're probably going to work on it | ||
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kyarisan
United States347 Posts
On October 25 2010 13:03 cHaNg-sTa wrote: Maybe they forgot to attack after stimming them. In all seriousness, this is a bad way to balance the game. Sure, the win ratio is probably around 50/50 right now, but to have a game based where the first portion of the game favors one team while the later portion favors the other is very discouraging in terms of balance. Wouldn't slightly bigger maps + a buff to terran lategame solve the problem? | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On October 25 2010 14:36 kyarisan wrote: Wouldn't slightly bigger maps + a buff to terran lategame solve the problem? Greatly assist it, but there are some builds that bear looking at. Marine/Raven/Banshee in particular is far too cost effective - part of the problem is how incredible marines are are killing shit, which Bliz has pointed out. | ||
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Sorook
31 Posts
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On October 25 2010 14:55 Sorook wrote: What I don't understand is why shouldn't P t3 crush T t1. Should toss be able to punish T for building nothing but MMM? What the fuck are T supoosed to build? Battlecruisers? WE literally have nothing else | ||
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Sorook
31 Posts
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On October 25 2010 15:03 Sorook wrote: Tanks and thors. Now that thors have no energy they are much harder to stop or learn how to cloak ghost and get off some good emps. Zealot immortal is a even a bigger hard counter to that than collosus to mmm :/ | ||
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Kachna
134 Posts
On October 25 2010 12:50 Mania[K]al wrote: Why is concussive shells in this game? Pretty sure if you want balance then an ability like that shouldn't exist. Banelings | ||
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