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I'll be honest with you guys, I used to play WoW. Please don't hate me, I swear I only did it because I started in college and it was easier to just sit around mindlessly killing AI mobs in between studying. I grew up playing the original Warcraft titles and Starcraft (though I admit never competitively and never had broodwar). I only say this so you don't write me off completely, I love the hell out of Starcraft 2 and if I never play WoW again I'll be a happy dude.
I honestly don't get all the WoW defensiveness on this board. Its like, any time someone mentions playing WoW, they immediately follow it up with, "but don't worry I've seen the error of my ways and I also play real e-sports games, so don't judge me."
Honestly, who gives a shit if you play WoW? Unless you're an obsessive or a progamer, everyone plays some games besides Starcraft, and most of them aren't e-sports type ultracompetitive games. I play Super Mario Galaxy 2. I play Minecraft. I play Demon's Souls, Assassin's Creed 2, most games in the Final Fantasy series, and yes, sometimes I even play WoW. I also play pickup basketball, chess and poker. I don't see how any of that has *any* bearing whatsoever on what sort of SC2 player I am.
Who the hell cares what else you do with your free time? Unless someone is trying to claim that, "Hey I'm really good at raiding, so that makes me a great gamer and you should respect my opinion on SC2", which no one ever has, then what possible bearing does your choice of other games have on what sort of SC2 player you are? You could be playing nothing but Wii Tennis and Scribblenauts, it still wouldn't have any relevance at all. Anyone who says, "You play [some other non SC2 game, including WoW] therefore you obviously suck," is frankly a moron and can go screw themselves.
Sorry for the OT rant, it just bugs me that people feel like they have to somehow justify how they choose to spend their free time, like if they play the "wrong" games it somehow makes them worse at Starcraft.
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And this is why I'm making the move to TL from b.net...
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On October 25 2010 04:26 LSB wrote:
People making imba claims should now be banned until they pass a 20 question quiz over mahnini's post.
This. ^^^
I'm so sick and tired of players continuing to cry about how they are weaker than the other races. It makes me want to toss a bunny out of a speeding car.
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I like this thread.
I dislike how nobody liked how I liked this thread.
ahem.
HEY
LISTEN
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We were all use to talking about a game that in everyones mind was 100% perfectly balanced and that couldn't be challenged. Now Sc2 doesn't have that reputation, and until it does I'm afraid that you'll just have to get use to people blaming balance for their terrible game.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
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There needs to be some way to redirect people to this thread before they make a new topic in the strategy forum.
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People need to read this and take responsibility for their own losses. Also /cheer for pictures
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On October 27 2010 00:58 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +I'll be honest with you guys, I used to play WoW. Please don't hate me, I swear I only did it because I started in college and it was easier to just sit around mindlessly killing AI mobs in between studying. I grew up playing the original Warcraft titles and Starcraft (though I admit never competitively and never had broodwar). I only say this so you don't write me off completely, I love the hell out of Starcraft 2 and if I never play WoW again I'll be a happy dude.
I honestly don't get all the WoW defensiveness on this board. Its like, any time someone mentions playing WoW, they immediately follow it up with, "but don't worry I've seen the error of my ways and I also play real e-sports games, so don't judge me." Honestly, who gives a shit if you play WoW? Unless you're an obsessive or a progamer, everyone plays some games besides Starcraft, and most of them aren't e-sports type ultracompetitive games. I play Super Mario Galaxy 2. I play Minecraft. I play Demon's Souls, Assassin's Creed 2, most games in the Final Fantasy series, and yes, sometimes I even play WoW. I also play pickup basketball, chess and poker. I don't see how any of that has *any* bearing whatsoever on what sort of SC2 player I am. Who the hell cares what else you do with your free time? Unless someone is trying to claim that, "Hey I'm really good at raiding, so that makes me a great gamer and you should respect my opinion on SC2", which no one ever has, then what possible bearing does your choice of other games have on what sort of SC2 player you are? You could be playing nothing but Wii Tennis and Scribblenauts, it still wouldn't have any relevance at all. Anyone who says, "You play [some other non SC2 game, including WoW] therefore you obviously suck," is frankly a moron and can go screw themselves. Sorry for the OT rant, it just bugs me that people feel like they have to somehow justify how they choose to spend their free time, like if they play the "wrong" games it somehow makes them worse at Starcraft.
You're assuming people are reasonable. Big mistake.
+ Show Spoiler +On a serious note, i agree with everything you just said. Unfortunately, Anyone who says, "You play [some other non SC2 game, including WoW] therefore you obviously suck," is frankly a moron and can go screw themselves. is a perfect description of a large portion of the "original" sc1 crowd here on TL - Including several members of the staff. Please refer to what i wrote about reasonable people earlier 
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On October 27 2010 00:58 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +I'll be honest with you guys, I used to play WoW. Please don't hate me, I swear I only did it because I started in college and it was easier to just sit around mindlessly killing AI mobs in between studying. I grew up playing the original Warcraft titles and Starcraft (though I admit never competitively and never had broodwar). I only say this so you don't write me off completely, I love the hell out of Starcraft 2 and if I never play WoW again I'll be a happy dude.
I honestly don't get all the WoW defensiveness on this board. Its like, any time someone mentions playing WoW, they immediately follow it up with, "but don't worry I've seen the error of my ways and I also play real e-sports games, so don't judge me." Honestly, who gives a shit if you play WoW? Unless you're an obsessive or a progamer, everyone plays some games besides Starcraft, and most of them aren't e-sports type ultracompetitive games. I play Super Mario Galaxy 2. I play Minecraft. I play Demon's Souls, Assassin's Creed 2, most games in the Final Fantasy series, and yes, sometimes I even play WoW. I also play pickup basketball, chess and poker. I don't see how any of that has *any* bearing whatsoever on what sort of SC2 player I am. Who the hell cares what else you do with your free time? Unless someone is trying to claim that, "Hey I'm really good at raiding, so that makes me a great gamer and you should respect my opinion on SC2", which no one ever has, then what possible bearing does your choice of other games have on what sort of SC2 player you are? You could be playing nothing but Wii Tennis and Scribblenauts, it still wouldn't have any relevance at all. Anyone who says, "You play [some other non SC2 game, including WoW] therefore you obviously suck," is frankly a moron and can go screw themselves. Sorry for the OT rant, it just bugs me that people feel like they have to somehow justify how they choose to spend their free time, like if they play the "wrong" games it somehow makes them worse at Starcraft.
As a former wow player I can totally see why the wow community is shame worthy when directly juxtaposed with the starcraft community. Take common community waterholes such as arenajunkies / worldofming / official forums etc; the amount of trash talk, elitism, QQ, and epeenflexing will leave you sick to your stomach. The "pros" also seem less worthy of respect because the competitive setting seems as much about manipulating and abusing a ladder system, maintaining an image, and clawing your way into a clique, as it is about actually being talented. Many have said SC could use some more dynamic personalities, but you don't want it to be like wow; the entire community having idra's personality is too much- a few is fine.
Part of the reason such a terrible community occurred is because blizzard basically set up an environment where two different nerd species are in the same cage eating out of the same bowl. Neither wants to eat the same thing or use the common space in the same way but they're forced to compromise when neither cares about the other's well-being in the slightest. The day a perfect balance solution is thrown away because it makes someone feel like they arn't actually flying around a science vessel in the korprulu sector, you'll understand how terrible a place wow is for forming a pleasant community despite it being more of a social game.
Things like day9, humble pros, and comparatively teamliquid.net alone make this community worlds better than wow. IMO it's the baggage from the wow community that makes people ashamed, not the game itself.
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I'm a high ranked diamond player but quite low avg skill level, and I aprove of this post, good work OP.
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Well, in WoW there is a set of buttons, no matter how well you press that button, the button is going to do a set number of damage.
It's alot easier to make imba claims in WoW because there are a certain amount of spells that do certain amount of things, and positioning and general play really has no concern, you need to tiem some stuff but other then that its spell y do x damage.
Sadly, this doesn't work here, and i think TL would benefit alot from making new members having to read the forums for 3 days before allowed to post so they could realize this faster
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Yeah, I started out reading the sc2 forums after it hit the shelves, but my usage has dropped to near zero recently. Watching gsl teaches me more than a thousand angry noobs.
Also, I play WoW and starcraft2. What's the big deal?
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Holy crap, I'm really sorry for derailing the thread. I only brought up WoW because I wanted to comment on the similarities between the two communities. And I was defensive about it because in the several weeks I've been coming here and reading threads I've seen multiple references to retarded WoW players who think everything should just be easy or some other generic hostility towards them.
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I faintly remember my days in WoW, they were calm and whether you were bad or good you could play and have fun. Try fishing in SC2
If you suck at Starcraft 2, like I do. Every Match is a period of heart racingly speed. Where you barely try to hold of the enemy that is seemingly coming always from the wrong direction. While you macro your scout finds eventually into his base and all you are thinking is: "To much units!" or "No units, where are the void rays?" - "Cannons!?".
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Macro. Need one more queen. Some Zerglings, is the Spire finished?
Damn Void Rays - Spire finished Mutas!! - MY QUEEN, DON'T DIE!
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Your first lung of breath in seemingly an hour.
Expand. Macro. Muta Harass.
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From then on everything shrinks to a blur, my adrenalin rushes through my head.
Scout. Wait. Attack. Defend. Oh Macro. Defend. Defend. ATTACK.
w... win?
Did I play good? No. The other was just worse. But YAY.
In Starcraft 2 everything seems so fast, so hard. The Skill you needed to be decent in WoW (sorry), was easy to achieve. It was fun yeah, WoW fun.
But Starcraft, after a victory... you feel like the king of the world. The adrenalin, the challenge.
The achievement to have won. You played your strategy, defended against the cheese and got one step closer to becoming good.
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you were able to articulate what i couldn't
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I remember in my arcade fighting game days of the 90's. Different characters, and everyone knew that some were better than others. Nobody complained about it though (except for eddy gordo, fuck that guy). Everyone accepted that if you are good with one of the harder characters to play, then you could still beat the so called stronger characters because it really boiled down to player skill.
Now days we have patches, where the balance can be changed, so everyone wants their race to be buffed, and the things they lose against nerfed.
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Every time I read this thread title I hear navi's voice. Its infuriating, I completely agree with the OP, but want to kill mahnini anyway for putting me through this torture
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As people have mentioned previously, we live in the Age Of The Patch. This is largely because the release of a new WoW patch is an internet phenomenon in itself, complete with Rick Rollin' videos. The big negative side of living in a patch culture is that people assume that by whining profusesly on forums they will influence the game in there favour.
As the OP mentions, everyone knows they could have just played better, and yet we'd rather whine on a forum about the situation, than do something to improve it. I blame bnet forums and WoW's popularity and endless fotm balance changes for this.
I mean back 10 years ago playing Ultima Online, if you went on forums and said "Omg X is unbeatable" people would just 'kindly' tell you how much you sucked. Or a really nice person might offer to give you PvP coaching, only to invite you out to the woods, murder you and take your things.
I'm not even that old, but everyday I'm shocked at how much PC gaming has changed since I was a kid. Everybody wants it easy.
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EPT
