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On October 15 2010 05:07 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:02 Kiante wrote: +2 attack thors + ghosts = 3 shot immortals while immortals take 8 shots to kill a thor. Mass thor tvp IS A GO For about two games, then people realise voids still barbecue thors.
And like 3 stimmed marines rape a void now. Not at home right now can someone test how many stimmed marines take a void now and can queens 1v1 them now even charged?
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there really was no need for the reaper nerf...
tvp was buffed at least..
gonna have to play zvt completely differently now lolz
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On Void Rays, am I wrong in noticing that damage level 3 is unchanged? Since that wasn't changed Void Rays should still have the same effectiveness more or less. Speed is nice since in multiplayer it could get out of hand.
Z buffs I like (I am a Z player). Gave me and idea. Is there room for like a Lair or evo chamber upgrade that could give Z buildings an increased health regeneration rate? Nice that the counter to colossus now can't just get feedbacked to death even though mass corruption can't be used now. I am willing to take that trade.
Medivac change is good I think since drops were too easy to pull off and relatively low risk if you were paying attention. Reaper speed could probably have stayed at Barracks tech and if it was a problem increase the cost to like 75/75.
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Phoenixes are Back!!!
on another note, the Void Ray is my least used unit, even below carriers, so that doesn't matter. And i love the Barracks after SD, makes terran gayness much less frequent.
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On October 15 2010 05:29 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +Buildings:I am OK with all the building life increases excluding the spire. Now timing attacks need to do even more damage... A spire costs 250/200 and takes 100 seconds to build. Yea, I think it should have more than 600 health. Your timing attacks will still work perfectly fine.
Really? It takes 100 seconds? Wow, thought it was faster.
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On October 15 2010 05:25 HypertonicHydroponic wrote: Now that we are at 37 pages (40 prob by the time I type this out), can the OP or a Mod throw on a few polls for us? Maybe, one for overall impression, one for most favorite change and one for least favorite change? I think we need something up front so that when Bliz sees this thread they will get a good summary of what the community thinks.
Personally, my reaction is meh to bleh. I see a few decent looking changes, and a few that I don't really care about, but the silly, silly* over-reaction of changing a classic, nay, historic tech tree is just beyond my comprehension. A.I. in SC1 would always build barracks on 8, supply on 9... where's the respect?
Nerf *reapers* to require supply depot, or engineering bay, or factory, or ghost academy... but nerfing the entire tech tree beginning with the barracks... well, let's just hope that every single map has a ramp or super narrow choke and that no one gets innovative with their maps... oh, and that no one proxy gateways in base or 6 pools. Marines cry. Very poor judgment Bliz.
Also, I think the thor buff is stupid. Leave it with energy and just make the 250mm worthwhile, like doing 750-1000 damage to structures only (whether or not they are floating), or making it a splash damage attack like the Odin's in the campaign but with a much smaller radius.
*insert strong language here
One shotting tech structures seems balanced.
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roach range will help immensely with pylon block
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Fruitdealer wins gsl season 2, you read it here first. But in all seriousness, the depot before barrack is uncalled for. This means terran has no way to do any early cheese that is comparable to zergs early pool or toss proxy gate/cannon. They literally removed a whole aspect of the terran strategy.
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On October 15 2010 05:27 Invol2ver wrote: I do not understand why so many people think this is going to revolutionize Thor play....it still needs to be researched people. The only thing it does is make them not feedback/EMP vulnerable. You will still never see 250mm...you don't now and you still won't.
The only thing the change does is make the fact that you aren't using it no longer a liability if HT's are on the field.
I think the potential to stun and kill a collosus or immortal every 50 seconds makes 250mm worth trying out.
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On October 15 2010 05:27 Invol2ver wrote: I do not understand why so many people think this is going to revolutionize Thor play....it still needs to be researched people. The only thing it does is make them not feedback/EMP vulnerable. You will still never see 250mm...you don't now and you still won't.
The only thing the change does is make the fact that you aren't using it no longer a liability if HT's are on the field.
Yeah. I see this as an indirect Toss nerf, not that Thors were all that common in TvP in the first place.
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On October 15 2010 05:19 nka203 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:17 iggyfisk wrote:On October 15 2010 05:14 nka203 wrote:On October 15 2010 05:13 iggyfisk wrote:On October 15 2010 05:12 Geo.Rion wrote: i wonder how many of these terran ragers open with rax depot as thier normal build. I m not saying it's a great change, but it's definetly wont change as much as ppl would like to imply here
That's exactly the point, it was a non-issue, so why remove the rare option? Why? Sometimes a tournament would come down to a fast furious micro battle, now it won't. The game is more boring, for what reason? No one thinks it will change anything much. But there's no upside to the change. believe me the game won't be boring because of that little change. Good thing I never said that. Any other made up points you'd like to dispute? " The game is more boring, for what reason?" are you gonna go edit it now cuz ur embarrased?
There is a huge upside. Maybe not for higher level players but im sure that bronze thru gold league are glad that proxy rax reaper isn't an autowin any more. The reason they are requiring a depot is (as you know) 6 rax is quite annoying if you dont have the high level of skill required to scout and counter it appropriately. More so for 6 rax reaper who could place their barracks up on a cliff that you could not reach and then make reapers before it was possible for a toss player to have stalkers or a zerg to have roaches.
So I propose a counter question. Why should the majority of the people who play this game have to suffer proxy production facilities coming down a 6 workers without a supply depot when no other race is allowed to do it?
If they nerf zealot build time to stop 2 gate proxies because they were hard to defend, why wouldn't they nerf 6 rax reaper/marauder?
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On October 15 2010 05:32 a176 wrote: roach range will help immensely with pylon block
And i just remembered, now protoss forge FEing is going to be super hard, since roaches can hit the gateway without the cannons hitting the roaches now.
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I think the potential to stun and kill a collosus or immortal every 50 seconds makes 250mm worth trying out.
Does 250 mm cannons punch through hardened shields? I've never played a Terran who researched it, so I've always wondered
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On October 15 2010 05:34 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +I think the potential to stun and kill a collosus or immortal every 50 seconds makes 250mm worth trying out. Does 250 mm cannons punch through hardened shields? I've never played a Terran who researched it, so I've always wondered
Yes.
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What are reasonable openings vs. a Zerg fe? Reapers won't be useful when even speedlings counter them hard. The Zerg will reckon with hellions. In ZvT just expand early and mass slings/blings/muta --> win.
If you have problems with hellions or banshees before the mutas arrive, just make some extra queens.
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Void Rays are almost completely useless now in 1v1. I already miss my feedback
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What the hell is up with the voidray change? Aside from whether or not voidrays were op, now that its been nerfed to hell, no one is gonna use it. It went from 25dps to armored to 16dps to armored. Moreover, most of the dps lost came from the bonus against armored. And now, you remove energy on thors and corruptors? no feedback? really bliz?
In addition, the reaper change is ridiculous. I'm a protoss player and I am against that change. Roach buff I'm ok with, but a fail patch in general.
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On October 15 2010 05:31 EnderPR wrote: On Void Rays, am I wrong in noticing that damage level 3 is unchanged? Since that wasn't changed Void Rays should still have the same effectiveness more or less. Speed is nice since in multiplayer it could get out of hand.
Z buffs I like (I am a Z player). Gave me and idea. Is there room for like a Lair or evo chamber upgrade that could give Z buildings an increased health regeneration rate? Nice that the counter to colossus now can't just get feedbacked to death even though mass corruption can't be used now. I am willing to take that trade.
Medivac change is good I think since drops were too easy to pull off and relatively low risk if you were paying attention. Reaper speed could probably have stayed at Barracks tech and if it was a problem increase the cost to like 75/75.
There are only 2 damage levels to voids the "second" animation level is just that and does nothing. It is a 100 percent buff uncharged on armored a 16 percent buff against anything else uncharged but a 20 percent nerf against light charged and 35 or so percent nerf against armor. Basically a pretty large overall nerf to its counters queens and marines t1 and a huge nerf to armored charged.
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How much will the roach range increase affect roach vs hellions? I think it's a pretty big difference. Right now, you can force the T to retreat by sending your roaches, the bad thing is that they could be kited, but can they now? I think roaches will always get a hit in on them now. I'm not saying that's bad, I just mean is that the case?
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On October 15 2010 05:32 qanik wrote: Fruitdealer wins gsl season 2, you read it here first. But in all seriousness, the depot before barrack is uncalled for. This means terran has no way to do any early cheese that is comparable to zergs early pool or toss proxy gate/cannon. They literally removed a whole aspect of the terran strategy.
FruitDealer will have some serious challengers this season.
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