EPTZerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 46
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
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Hammurabio
152 Posts
Mutas: I can get 5 mutas at around 7minutes. I don't think this is good enough as the Lair/spire will be scouted. Expo: I can put down an expo and pop some drones. This is much slower than a FE, but you've bought some time by sending Terran down the wrong path. Banelings: If the Terran buildings are close, 10 banelings should be able to kill the depot, bunker, all marines inside and all marauders. Then follow in behind with 10 speedlings. Looks like I can have those ready to attack outside his base at 5:30. I'm just brainstorming, no BOs at this time. I'm just happy to see 7RR allowing zerg to dictate the game flow instead of playing defensive all the time. | ||
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Noise
Australia47 Posts
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The Touch
United Kingdom667 Posts
Now forgive me if there's a way of doing this in the interface that I haven't figured out, or if this would be ridiculously complicated and time consuming to code (I have literally no clue about such things), but I keep finding myself wishing there was a feature where you could add a condition that building or unit X must be finished before building or unit Y starts. For example, I may want to ensure that 2 or 4 lings are finished and on the field before my roach warren is started, so that I can deny scouting. The program would still look for the fastest way to achieve the goal (let's use the 7 roaches as an example) in the shortest possible time, but the extra constraint allows you to ensure the program is building some extra safety into the build. Or maybe you want to ensure that an extractor goes down before an early 3rd expansion, so that your opponent doesn't suspect anything out of the ordinary when he scouts. Currently you can set an early waypoint with some lings, and then a later one with your desired unit composition, but the problem is that the program merely looks for the way to finish the total result in the shortest time, so you can end up with, say, a roach warren going down before the early lings are out, or setting the first waypoint so early that it forces the lings to come out first, but the final result is delayed because you 9 pooled to get those lings early enough for the first waypoint. Thanks again for all the great work everybody has put into this. It really is tremendously useful. I think that adding a pre-exiting unit/building condition would allow for significantly more versatile and complex builds to come out of the program. | ||
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
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Loxon
United States20 Posts
I believe that's really what waypoints are for, but you do need to be careful how you tweak them to hit your milestones. It really is designed to say "At WP1 I need to have 4 lings" and "At WP2 I need to have 7 roaches", but you have to be careful how aggressive you are with either (if you set WP1 too early, 6 pool might be the only way to go to get there, which will delay the warren more than you needed to.) As the UI gets refined and the code tweaked (I know there has been discussion about setting an option to pull a drone to scout at a specific supply point), this will probably "feel" easier to do, but the tools are there to get it done. Keep up the great work! | ||
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DImported
Australia149 Posts
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Kinesis
1 Post
as far as the Incinerate threads go - you've handled it well. props to taking it all in stride. | ||
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Lomilar
United States130 Posts
Huzzah! | ||
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Alternity
United States74 Posts
:D EDIT: Nevermind, it is out! -> http://code.google.com/p/evolutionchamber/downloads/detail?name=evolutionchamber-version-0018.jar&can=2&q= | ||
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Cambam
United States360 Posts
On November 06 2010 05:43 Lomilar wrote: The tool still has not been proven at the pro-gamer level, unless I am missing some VODs. On that day, I will be impressed. Even more so if it works. :-) I think the pros should definitely check it out. If not for specific build orders, then at least just to learn general lessons from it. Here are some examples I've learned:
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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
Note: It simulated 165,000,000+ games... and I'm quite confident this is as good as it gets for the 7RR. The simulator didn't make a single change to the BO in the last 9 hours of run-time, so I'm guessing this is as fast as it gets. Here is the DETAILED format: + Show Spoiler + @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S  /10 BuildDrone@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:51 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:05 M:204 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool @1:13 M:55 G:0 L:3 S /10 BuildDrone@1:28 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:28 M:100 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @1:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:32 M:27 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildExtractor @1:40 M:52 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@1:43 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:53 Spawned: Overlord+1 @1:53 M:85 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone @1:57 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:58 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:02 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:10 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:10 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:10 M:152 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 MineGas @2:10 M:152 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildRoachWarren @2:10 M:2 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 MineGas @2:12 Mining: +1 on gas @2:12 Mining: +1 on gas @2:13 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:19 M:52 G:11 L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone @2:28 M:52 G:23 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @2:28 M:2 G:23 L:1 S:12/18 MineGas @2:30 Mining: +1 on gas @2:34 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:36 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:45 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:47 M:103 G:59 L:2 S:12/18 BuildOverlord @2:49 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:04 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:05 Spawned: Roach Warren+1 @3:05 M:118 G 3 L:3 S:12/18 MineMineral@3:05 M:118 G 3 L:3 S:12/18 BuildRoach@3:07 Mining: +1 on mineral @3:10 M:77 G:75 L:2 S:14/18 BuildRoach @3:12 Spawned: Overlord+1 @3:20 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:21 M:80 G:66 L:2 S:16/26 BuildRoach @3:31 M:76 G:55 L:1 S:18/26 BuildRoach @3:32 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:35 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:37 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:42 M:80 G:45 L:1 S:20/26 BuildRoach @3:48 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:50 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:52 M:76 G:34 L:1 S:22/26 BuildRoach @3:58 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:05 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:05 M 3 G:27 L:1 S:24/26 BuildRoach@4:09 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:19 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:20 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:32 Spawned: Roach+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 35 ---Final Output--- At time: 4:32 Minerals: 210 Gas: 40 Supply: 26/26 Drones: 12 Overlords: 3 Roaches: 7 Hatcheries: 1 Gas Extractors: 1 Spawning Pools: 1 Roach Warrens: 1 ------------------ Fri Nov 05 18:49:42 EDT 2010: 984.3337354022492 And here is the SIMPLE format: + Show Spoiler + 10 SpawningPool M:204 G:0 10 Overlord M:100 G:0 10 Extractor M:27 G:0 11 +1 Drone on gas M:152 G:0 11 RoachWarren M:152 G:0 10 +1 Drone on gas M:2 G:0 12 +1 Drone on gas M:2 G:23 12 Overlord M:103 G:59 12 +1 Drone on minerals M:118 G 312 Roach M:118 G 314 Roach M:77 G:75 16 Roach M:80 G:66 18 Roach M:76 G:55 20 Roach M:80 G:45 22 Roach M:76 G:34 24 Roach M 3 G:27Thanks SO MUCH for this app! Are there any plans for Terran / Protoss? I'm an experienced Java developer and have looked at the code repository and am confident I could be of assistance if need be... PM me on here if you wish. Enjoy! | ||
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Noise
Australia47 Posts
When I wanted a muta build, it did 2 spires early on and then never changed it, even though one of the two spires was completely unnecessary. | ||
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Philidoreamon
Australia16 Posts
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The Touch
United Kingdom667 Posts
On November 06 2010 10:26 Loxon wrote: Touch, I believe that's really what waypoints are for, but you do need to be careful how you tweak them to hit your milestones. It really is designed to say "At WP1 I need to have 4 lings" and "At WP2 I need to have 7 roaches", but you have to be careful how aggressive you are with either (if you set WP1 too early, 6 pool might be the only way to go to get there, which will delay the warren more than you needed to.) Yeah this is exactly my point. The waypoints are brilliant, and it's often simple to tweak what the program comes up with (say, by delaying the roach warren by a few seconds so that the lings are out in time to deny scouting), but sometimes the program can come up with builds that run counter to what you want to happen. I'm currently running a '4 lings by 3:00' WP0, and '7 roaches by 5:30' Final. The program is currently recommending 10 pool 9 warren. The lings are out by 2:40, but the warren has been down for almost 30 seconds at that point, which negates the entire purpose of the lings. This is only after 8 million games, so I'm sure it will come up with a better way soon, but it does demonstrate a situation where the waypoints don't achieve what the user really wants them to. But yeah, the 'X has finished' condition is just something that I think would be a nice addition. The program is already awesome without it. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
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Dark_Templar
Germany3 Posts
On November 06 2010 20:16 Dionyseus wrote: It's now up to version 20, but there's no changelog between version 17 and version 20. Is v20 legit? It's posted on his site so it certainly is  | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
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Noise
Australia47 Posts
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