EPTZerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 27
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tournamentnow
Australia111 Posts
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Jaal
United States61 Posts
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Bumblebees
United States328 Posts
I've automated tested of various build orders over the last couple days (using automator) and nearly every build order with more than 2 hatcheries will evolve to 1 more queen than hatcheries. Many build orders I've tested start showing bases+2 of queens around and above 100million nodes. My only thought is that this correctly realizes that there is a delay between spawn larva and a single queen regenerating 25 energy, so it makes an extra queen to fill that delay. The issue with this is that all builds I've tried that have added base+N of queens do not show improvements in time over a single queen per base. A BO that quickly evolves to base+n of queens is 36 drones, 20 zerglings. Around 6:22 it has 2 queens and 2 hatcheries. It switches to 3 queens and 2 hatcheries for ~15,000 games played, then drops to 6:00 with 2 queens and 2 hatcheries (36 drones, 37 excess minerals). After another 20,000 games played it decides that 4 queens with 2 hatcheries (37 drones, 407 excess minerals) is optimal, but gives a time of 6:00. Obviously the 4 queen build is superior in stats having one more drone and more excess minerals, but this behaviour still does not seem optimal. | ||
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Gryffes
United Kingdom763 Posts
It would be nice to have the conversion as a tickbox on the output to show what the ingame clock would show so it's easier to put builds into practice. | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On October 24 2010 00:04 Luckbox wrote: One thing I just realised, the optimizer shows real time for "Faster" ( I think ) - the ingame clock speed is set for "normal" even though we play on Faster - so the time between the shown time and the ingame clock will never match up. It would be nice to have the conversion as a tickbox on the output to show what the ingame clock would show so it's easier to put builds into practice. The ingame clock goes by normal in-game time, if you speed it up to faster it simply speeds up the clock. | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:12 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:23 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:29 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:32 M:50 G:0 L:2 S  /10 BuildDrone@0:40 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:49 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:49 M:104 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:14 Spawned: Overlord+1 @1:14 M:181 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone @1:14 M:131 G:0 L:1 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:31 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:31 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:31 M:203 G:0 L:2 S:12/18 BuildSpawningPool @1:34 M:27 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildExtractor @1:41 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone @1:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:48 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:55 M:51 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @1:58 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:02 M:54 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone @2:04 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:05 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:12 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:15 M 1 G:22 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone@2:19 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:30 M:156 G:51 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone @2:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:36 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:45 M:234 G:79 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone @2:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:56 M:285 G:100 L:0 S:17/18 BuildLair @3:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:00 M:172 G:8 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone @3:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:15 M:270 G:36 L:1 S:18/18 BuildOverlord @3:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:40 Spawned: Overlord+1 @3:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:49 M:528 G:101 L:2 S:18/26 Metabolic Boost @3:49 M:428 G:1 L:2 S:18/26 BuildExtractor @3:49 M:403 G:1 L:2 S:17/26 BuildDrone @3:49 M:353 G:1 L:1 S:18/26 BuildDrone @4:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:00 M:412 G:22 L:1 S:19/26 BuildDrone @4:06 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:06 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:15 M:524 G:50 L:1 S:20/26 BuildDrone @4:16 Spawned: Lairs+1 @4:16 M:485 G:52 L:0 S:21/26 BuildQueen @4:16 M:335 G:52 L:0 S:23/26 BuildRoachWarren @4:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:19 Spawned: Extractor+1 @4:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:30 M:318 G:102 L:1 S:22/26 BuildDrone @4:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:45 M:416 G:159 L:1 S:23/26 BuildZergling @4:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:00 M:524 G:216 L:1 S:24/26 BuildOverlord @5:00 M:424 G:216 L:0 S:24/26 BuildHydraliskDen @5:06 Spawned: Queen+1 @5:09 Spawned: Zergling+2 @5:11 Spawned: Roach Warren+1 @5:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:15 M:472 G:173 L:1 S:23/26 BuildOverlord @5:15 M:372 G:173 L:0 S:23/26 Glial Reconstitution @5:25 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:30 M:421 G:130 L:1 S:23/34 BuildRoach @5:39 Evolved: Metabolic Boost @5:40 Spawned: Hydralisk Den+1 @5:40 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:45 M:494 G:162 L:1 S:25/42 BuildRoach @5:51 Spawned: Larva+4 @5:51 M:479 G:159 L:4 S:27/42 BuildHydralisk @5:51 M:379 G:109 L:3 S:29/42 BuildRoach @5:51 M:304 G:84 L:2 S:31/42 BuildRoach @5:51 M:229 G:59 L:1 S:33/42 BuildOverlord @5:57 Spawned: Roach+1 @6:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:00 M:218 G 4 L:1 S:33/42 BuildHydralisk@6:12 Spawned: Roach+1 @6:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:15 M:266 G:101 L:1 S:35/42 BuildRoach @6:16 Spawned: Overlord+1 @6:18 Spawned: Roach+1 @6:18 Spawned: Roach+1 @6:24 Spawned: Hydralisk+1 @6:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:30 M:340 G:133 L:1 S:37/50 BuildRoach @6:33 Spawned: Hydralisk+1 @6:36 Spawned: Larva+4 @6:36 M:324 G:130 L:4 S:39/50 BuildHydralisk @6:36 M:224 G:80 L:3 S:41/50 BuildHydralisk @6:36 M:124 G:30 L:2 S:43/50 BuildRoach @6:42 Spawned: Roach+1 @6:42 M:109 G:28 L:1 S:45/50 BuildRoach @6:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:45 M:63 G:15 L:1 S:47/50 BuildZergling @6:57 Spawned: Roach+1 @7:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @7:03 Spawned: Roach+1 @7:05 Evolved: Glial Reconstitution @7:09 Spawned: Hydralisk+1 @7:09 Spawned: Hydralisk+1 @7:09 Spawned: Roach+1 @7:09 Spawned: Zergling+2 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 49 ---Final Output--- At time: 7:09 Minerals: 251 Gas: 106 Supply: 48/50 Drones: 20 Overlords: 6 Queens: 1 Zerglings: 4 Roaches: 8 Hydralisks: 4 Lairs: 1 Gas Extractors: 2 Spawning Pools: 1 Roach Warrens: 1 Hydralisk Den: 1 Metabolic Boost Glial Reconstitution Ran it for 40 minutes and it hasn't updated the past 17 minutes. My system is q9650 running at 3.8ghz, stats for this run: 5450K games played. 92 alleles in the chromosome. 2248 games played/second. Evolution Rate: 0.011130434782608667 Processor 0 age: (1936) score: 2668406.7178639052 Processor 1 age: (7) score: 2382620.967901201 Processor 2 age: (926) score: 2502857.981458973 Processor 3 age: (23) score: 2435980.8994940347 | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
@5:06 Queen+1 @5:09 Zergling+2 @5:57 Roach+1 Also it needs to run 2-3h+ to be reliable | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On October 24 2010 00:29 icezar wrote: the problem is you have nothing to defend until 6min mark any push will kill you :-( @5:06 Queen+1 @5:09 Zergling+2 @5:57 Roach+1 Also it needs to run 2-3h+ to be reliable Yea, i'll see if i can fix that. | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
Aslo you have some gas at the end so maybe ask for the range on hydra that is really usefull. | ||
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Chronocide
United States126 Posts
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blackodd
Sweden451 Posts
Ultralisk in 8min! It's of course not perfect but it really helps!! | ||
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Gryffes
United Kingdom763 Posts
21982K games played. @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:12 M:51 G:0 L:2 S: 7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:23 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:29 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:32 M:50 G:0 L:2 S: 9/10 BuildDrone @0:40 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:49 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:03 M:203 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool Can anyone actually get a spawning pool down at 1:03? The closest I can get is 1:13. | ||
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Lomilar
United States130 Posts
On October 23 2010 08:03 Neo.NEt wrote: This really blows my mind. What do you do that makes you smart enough / have enough free time to make this? Haha. I work in AI and computational linguistics. Genetic algorithms are used to figure out some things that need tight tolerances, and have non-deterministic hints. As for the free time. Well. I don't have any free time, but you make room for the things that are important. | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
On October 24 2010 01:37 Luckbox wrote: ok I want to know if I'm crazy or not, running a BO to get 2 lings out and 15 drones . 21982K games played. @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:12 M:51 G:0 L:2 S: 7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:23 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:29 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:32 M:50 G:0 L:2 S: 9/10 BuildDrone @0:40 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:49 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:03 M:203 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool Can anyone actually get a spawning pool down at 1:03? The closest I can get is 1:13. It`s ok (i tested and the fasted i got it at 1:09). This prog does not count for drone walking time. From my experience if you do the build very well you will end up 5 sec behind every minute. | ||
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Lomilar
United States130 Posts
On October 23 2010 20:00 redviper wrote: Also Lomilar great work. The program works really well, has good core utilization and even the interface is nice. Are you a student or a professional developer? I'm a professional software engineer. I am currently working on research grants for the US's National Science Foundation. Thanks for the props. I am still skeptical about the interface, but a lot of people like it. :-) | ||
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Lomilar
United States130 Posts
On October 23 2010 22:21 Jaal wrote: Where does it save the output? There's an etc directory wherever you launched the program from. It is in there, as serialized build order objects... Sadly unreadable, I am pretty sure. | ||
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zokj
Canada136 Posts
Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 87 ---Final Output--- At time: 9:30 Minerals: 230 Gas: 88 Supply: 73/74 Drones: 28 Overlords: 8 Overseers: 1 Queens: 1 Zerglings: 26 Roaches: 15 Lairs: 1 Gas Extractors: 2 Spawning Pools: 1 Roach Warrens: 1 Evolution Chambers: 2 Nydus Networks: 1 Nydus Worms: 1 Melee +1 Missile +1 Armor +1 Metabolic Boost Glial Reconstitution Very cool program! should just enough to either expand or do two nydus.. think 9m is too late? | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
On October 24 2010 01:52 Lomilar wrote: I'm a professional software engineer. I am currently working on research grants for the US's National Science Foundation. Thanks for the props. I am still skeptical about the interface, but a lot of people like it. :-) The interface if just fine! much better than expected indeed. Tweaking the algorithm and improving performance will be very nice. Thanks a lot for this tool. Also your other project with backup is very interesting. Regards, | ||
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Chronocide
United States126 Posts
On October 24 2010 01:37 Luckbox wrote: ok I want to know if I'm crazy or not, running a BO to get 2 lings out and 15 drones . 21982K games played. @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:12 M:51 G:0 L:2 S: 7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:23 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:29 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:32 M:50 G:0 L:2 S: 9/10 BuildDrone @0:40 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:49 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:03 M:203 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool Can anyone actually get a spawning pool down at 1:03? The closest I can get is 1:13. I don't think the tester accounts for split timing. It probably assumes that all six drones start the game with a mine command already issued, with each drone starting right in front of a mineral patch. Either way, I wouldn't try to worry about exact timings like that. This system is imperfect and will always be imperfect - it's meant to be used as a general guide, one which will hopefully elucidate fresh build order ideas that nobody else has considered. I wouldn't sweat over a difference of 10 seconds. However, I am interested to know why the system always seems to OV on 10, instead of 9 OV or ET. We've proved that 10 OV is inferior, and if this program can't discover that on it's own I'm not sure how we are to take it seriously in other regards. | ||
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Lomilar
United States130 Posts
On October 24 2010 01:51 icezar wrote: It`s ok (i tested and the fasted i got it at 1:09). This prog does not count for drone walking time. From my experience if you do the build very well you will end up 5 sec behind every minute. Someone is in the process of submitting a patch for that. I use the (average) mining times from the Liquipedia page. Do a search on minerals and you should be able to find it. But one thing I was not sure of is whether that rate per drone is from base->mineral->base, or mineral->base->mineral. One or the other configuration has a roughly 2 second lead time that I don't think was being accounted for. The other lagtimes that exist (and are not accounted for) are: Initial perfect split of drones+starting drone. Maynard transfers. Any lagtime associated with moving drones to gas. Lagtime associated with starting a building (best way to avoid this is to grab a drone on the way back from the base and plop the building as close as possible) | ||
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