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On October 03 2010 05:13 Owarida wrote:
I quit SC2 months ago..Why play a broken game? Plenty of great balanced games out there to play right now. Only reason people still play is because A) its made by blizzard B) it has "starcraft" in the title. If it were the same game, with diff names of units, diff models, and made by a different company no one would think twice about it. Why? Because its garbage in its current state.
Why post on broken games forum?
Also the fact that you haven't played the game in months kinda hurts your credibility.
To answer your question.. No the game isn't broken. It's not perfectly balanced but not broken.
You maybe should actually play the game rather than just complain about it ^^
About the topic I wonder if Cool still wants to change races 
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rofl I cant believe people are still trying to argue that zerg is weak after that display of complete dominance by Cool yesterday...
WOW..
Cool just showed why the future of zerg is going to be damn scary for any race, potentially more dominant than the savior era of BW when a zerg has this kind of potential (either Cool or if someone like Jaedong comes along).. Other races are just too fragile/immobile in comparison, which is why they have to try and cripple zerg before they get into that zone like Cool did everygame.
Think about this.. It was fucking INTOTHERAINBOW.. one of the best BW pros of all time (no, not flash/jaedong/nada/savior level, but class A for sure) and Cool was good but not as good as Rainbow in bw.. And Cool just totally dominated him in SC2. this is NOT an example of cool having more talent than his opponents, its a matter of no zergs being good enough for Rainbow to practice against and prepare for this playstyle, because most zergs just whine all day and are uncreative outside of Cool.
Face it. ZERG IS NOT UNDERPOWERED. Now go learn how to play instead of bitching about it, its been shown that zerg can play vs the best terran in the world and dominate. EVEN with reaper first proxyrax..
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On October 03 2010 05:38 NATO wrote:
So when a Terran or Protoss wins some minor tournament it's because their race is too powerful, but when a Zerg wins the biggest SC2 tournament yet, it's because his skill is orders of magnitudes higher than everyone else?
You guys are ridiculous. This is all political, and you're just repeating bullshit to get your race buffed because you're lazy.
You sir, are awesome, we laughed srsly 30 seconds at your post.
But yeah, 1 big tournament vs 200 minor tournaments preeetty balanced id say!
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On October 03 2010 05:49 itzbrandnew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2010 05:38 NATO wrote:
So when a Terran or Protoss wins some minor tournament it's because their race is too powerful, but when a Zerg wins the biggest SC2 tournament yet, it's because his skill is orders of magnitudes higher than everyone else?
You guys are ridiculous. This is all political, and you're just repeating bullshit to get your race buffed because you're lazy. I always find posts like these cute. Do you have any experience playing zerg? I'm not a pro by any stretch of the imagination, but I like to play random races and I'm not really set on any one race. Having said that zerg is my weakest race, whether this has to do with imbalance or simple mechanical differences is up for debate, but don't run your mouth about shit you know nothing about. Ya just look ignant
One sample point doesn't prove anything. You probably just need to work on your zerg more. I played zerg for a very long time, but eventually switched full time to Terran - although I still keep in zerg practice. I've toyed around with the idea of switching back to zerg, but I really don't want to play ZvZ, so I stick with terran. TvT is much more fun (IMO) than ZvZ.
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On October 03 2010 06:45 Skyze wrote:
rofl I cant believe people are still trying to argue that zerg is weak after that display of complete dominance by Cool yesterday...
WOW..
Cool just showed why the future of zerg is going to be damn scary for any race, potentially more dominant than the savior era of BW when a zerg has this kind of potential (either Cool or if someone like Jaedong comes along).. Other races are just too fragile/immobile in comparison, which is why they have to try and cripple zerg before they get into that zone like Cool did everygame.
Think about this.. It was fucking INTOTHERAINBOW.. one of the best BW pros of all time (no, not flash/jaedong/nada/savior level, but class A for sure) and Cool was good but not as good as Rainbow in bw.. And Cool just totally dominated him in SC2. this is NOT an example of cool having more talent than his opponents, its a matter of no zergs being good enough for Rainbow to practice against and prepare for this playstyle, because most zergs just whine all day and are uncreative outside of Cool.
Face it. ZERG IS NOT UNDERPOWERED. Now go learn how to play instead of bitching about it, its been shown that zerg can play vs the best terran in the world and dominate. EVEN with reaper first proxyrax..
cool himself said in an interview after that he still believes zerg is the weaker of the 3. he still believes that balance needs to be implemented.
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On October 03 2010 06:45 Skyze wrote:
rofl I cant believe people are still trying to argue that zerg is weak after that display of complete dominance by Cool yesterday...
WOW..
Cool just showed why the future of zerg is going to be damn scary for any race, potentially more dominant than the savior era of BW when a zerg has this kind of potential (either Cool or if someone like Jaedong comes along).. Other races are just too fragile/immobile in comparison, which is why they have to try and cripple zerg before they get into that zone like Cool did everygame.
Think about this.. It was fucking INTOTHERAINBOW.. one of the best BW pros of all time (no, not flash/jaedong/nada/savior level, but class A for sure) and Cool was good but not as good as Rainbow in bw.. And Cool just totally dominated him in SC2. this is NOT an example of cool having more talent than his opponents, its a matter of no zergs being good enough for Rainbow to practice against and prepare for this playstyle, because most zergs just whine all day and are uncreative outside of Cool.
Face it. ZERG IS NOT UNDERPOWERED. Now go learn how to play instead of bitching about it, its been shown that zerg can play vs the best terran in the world and dominate. EVEN with reaper first proxyrax..
This is exactly why I wanted rainbow to win. Fuck me
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^^ You said it yourself. There was nobody as good as Cool for him to practice against.... so how can you say Zerg is balanced now because ONE GUY can win ONE tournament?
I'm not saying Zerg is underpowered, I'm just saying that this tournament only proves that ONE guy is good, not Zerg.
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On October 03 2010 06:45 Skyze wrote:
rofl I cant believe people are still trying to argue that zerg is weak after that display of complete dominance by Cool yesterday...
WOW..
Cool just showed why the future of zerg is going to be damn scary for any race, potentially more dominant than the savior era of BW when a zerg has this kind of potential (either Cool or if someone like Jaedong comes along).. Other races are just too fragile/immobile in comparison, which is why they have to try and cripple zerg before they get into that zone like Cool did everygame.
Think about this.. It was fucking INTOTHERAINBOW.. one of the best BW pros of all time (no, not flash/jaedong/nada/savior level, but class A for sure) and Cool was good but not as good as Rainbow in bw.. And Cool just totally dominated him in SC2. this is NOT an example of cool having more talent than his opponents, its a matter of no zergs being good enough for Rainbow to practice against and prepare for this playstyle, because most zergs just whine all day and are uncreative outside of Cool.
Face it. ZERG IS NOT UNDERPOWERED. Now go learn how to play instead of bitching about it, its been shown that zerg can play vs the best terran in the world and dominate. EVEN with reaper first proxyrax..
Sorry but I have to agree with this guy. Especially now, after the recent patch and tank nerf I hate hearing Zergs complain. I switched to Protoss but thats because I got bored with Zerg, when I played Zerg at high Diamond level I NEVER ever ever noticed anything imbalanced unless a Terran went mas tank pushes with thors and MMM. That was it and even then I didn't understand all the QQ because as far as I could experience there was only one thing wrong and it's fine now. Cool raped IntoTheRaindow in those games, even the game ITR won was almost over for him so many times.
I think the whole GSL has showed us what Zerg can become with some time. Everything from baneling overlord bombs to baneling mines to Ultra's owning face.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
just fyi:
Cool outplayed rainbow by a gigantic margin during the final. Cool was magnitudes ahead in terms of talent between the two in brood war; rainbow is a fan favourite but he was always pretty bad whereas Cool was viewed as 'the next big zerg' before estro culture destroyed him and he never got anywhere
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Originally this thread was ammunition for the Zerg Whiners (ZW) but seems like this has turned against them..
From the finals match it seems like zerg has no problems at all. All games were so one-sided for the zerg. It could have easily been a 4-0 stomping.
ZW's don't need balance changes, they need lessons. Cool has showed us that at the tip-top highest level, zerg is perhaps the strongest race. I am predicting in the future zerg will be known as the race with the steepest learning curve but strongest when mastered.
No offense intended to ZW. In fact I really want to switch to zerg myself after watching Cool play and become one of you folks. But rather than posting about imbalance I might use the time to hone my skills.
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On October 03 2010 06:45 Skyze wrote:Face it. ZERG IS NOT UNDERPOWERED. Now go learn how to play instead of bitching about it, its been shown that zerg can play vs the best terran in the world and dominate. EVEN with reaper first proxyrax.. I'm really curious how that proxyrax first game would have gone if ITR hadn't lost his second barracks. That was a huge blunder.
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God TL makes me want to kill babies sometimes. Seriously, I said it in 3 different threads before the finals even started, and it's so stupid that it came true. Cool winning in such a domininant fashion says NOTHING ABOUT BALANCE. NOTHING. Yes, he played great. But guess what? ITR DIDN'T!
Please, for the love of god, use your brains before you jump to stupid conclusions. Think about it this way: A gun should beat a knife, but if the gun doesn't aim right, the guy with the knife will stab him and kill him. Sure some people are quick, and have tricks to help, and a guy with a knife can do some really fancy cool things, but just because he won, doesn't mean in a vaccuum a knife should beat a gun. ITR missed so many shots, and made so many stupid moves. He was nervous. For the love of god, don't base the state of the game on one match.
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bring back lurkers and scourge and defilers!!! that all im saying
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If all this people are crying like babies after the amazing play Fruitdealer show us, I cannot imagine how bad it would be if Hope Torture defeated him.
People complain about zerg even if they win tournaments.
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On October 03 2010 07:31 Juaks wrote:
If all this people are crying like babies after the amazing play Fruitdealer show us, I cannot imagine how bad it would be if Hope Torture defeated him.
People complain about zerg even if they win tournaments.
Even if one person won one tournament because he is spectacularly good, doesn't mean that the game is balanced for anyone else.
If cool were to learn terran and play himself, then maybe we could get some kind of gauge on top-level performance. But rainbow's play wasn't really up there with cool at all imo.
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On October 03 2010 07:22 forgotten0ne wrote:
... don't base the state of the game on one match.
Uhh he dominated more than a few top players during the tournament...
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Honestly, I don't think we would have seen the same outcome if another terran made it to the finals. At least I don't think Cool would have won by such a huge margin. Personally I think there were better Terrans in the tournament even though I've been a big fan of RainBOw in SC2. I don't think the series was very telling at all when it comes to the balance issues present in SC2 currently. Cool just destroyed and put himself ahead every single game. Cool was just simply a more solid player. One BO7 means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
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I've kept saying since Beta that Zerg was by far the best race due to better macro mechanics and easy tech switch which helps a lot in SC2 due to all the hard counters.
Blizzard think that they somehow balanced the game by making Zerg weak to all sorts of cheese and early abuse like fast voidray/banshee, 5 barracks reapers, 2 gates/pressure, but as long as these kind of strats get nerfed patch after patch and that Zerg players get more and more experience on how to deal with them, most of the games will be decided by the late game where Zerg is by far the best race.
Mark my words, Zerg is going to win GSL2 too.
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On October 03 2010 07:14 wxwx wrote:
Originally this thread was ammunition for the Zerg Whiners (ZW) but seems like this has turned against them..
From the finals match it seems like zerg has no problems at all. All games were so one-sided for the zerg. It could have easily been a 4-0 stomping.
ZW's don't need balance changes, they need lessons. Cool has showed us that at the tip-top highest level, zerg is perhaps the strongest race. I am predicting in the future zerg will be known as the race with the steepest learning curve but strongest when mastered.
No offense intended to ZW. In fact I really want to switch to zerg myself after watching Cool play and become one of you folks. But rather than posting about imbalance I might use the time to hone my skills.
derp a derp derp
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I thought it was interesting Cools comment about ZvT, do you think he implied it was balanced or that he personally was just amazing at it? From a perhaps ignorant standpoint, I feel TvP is close to balanced and so is ZvT, though each varying a little according to the stage in the game. ZvP like cool says is a bit brutal however. I do feel all this anti Terran whine has become a bit of a bandwagon since Beta though, as many Terran units are by nature very frustrating to play against.
Again, ITR didn't play amazing though, so it's hard to tell, from my perspective it feels and always has felt difficult to decide about ZvT as a whole, esp since Reaper and bunker nerf, but so many people have such set in stone opinions one way or the other.
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