EPTFact 2: If you want a siege tank to hold fire, keep them unsieged. There are two risks. The first risk is that you have a 4-second delay in sieging. The second is they will fire unsieged within range 7. So if you want to wait for them to be even closer, you have to move your tanks around and risk an nonstrategic positioning when you siege.
Think we're ever getting a Hold Fire command? - Page 3
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Fact 2: If you want a siege tank to hold fire, keep them unsieged. There are two risks. The first risk is that you have a 4-second delay in sieging. The second is they will fire unsieged within range 7. So if you want to wait for them to be even closer, you have to move your tanks around and risk an nonstrategic positioning when you siege. | ||
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Rozza
United Kingdom45 Posts
On September 20 2010 14:45 smegged wrote: Hold fire changed the game for the better in SC. It is a micro intensive task that can change the course of the battle. There was no hold fire command in SC On September 20 2010 14:41 TheYango wrote: I think the idea is that spamming the Stop command (which is the only practical way to effectively Hold Fire right now) is more multitask/micro-intensive than making a button-push do it for you. And for the record, Hold Lurkers was a huge part of the spectator experience in SC1. Obviously this wouldn't be quite the same, but it would allow for analogous situations in certain contexts. +1 we in BW had to spam the stop command, this required micro and high apm. a hold fire button has no possible benefits for Z | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
I don't think there should be a hold fire command in SC2, but if massing "h" or "s" over and over again doesn't prevent your units from attacking, I think it should just my two cents | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imm.io/media/1m/1mOx.jpg) affects nearby units, so Blizzard have considered this feature, and decided to allow it only to ghosts. I think that makes for more interesting game situations. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote: if sc1 just had a hold fire command, there would be no skill, difficulty, or ingenuity involved whatsoever in hold-position lurkers I don't think there should be a hold fire command in SC2, but if massing "h" or "s" over and over again doesn't prevent your units from attacking, I think it should just my two cents On September 20 2010 22:24 Rozza wrote: There was no hold fire command in SC +1 we in BW had to spam the stop command, this required micro and high apm. a hold fire button has no possible benefits for Z All you had to do in BW was to select your burrowed lurker with an overlord and press hold-position, or attack a building that's out of range. You didn't have to spam anything. (You know this might be possible with siege tanks already, i dunno) I'm not actually sure whether this is a good idea or not, it really only had application with the lurker in BW, although it could be interesting with other long range damage units or invisible units. I don't really care that much, I just feel inclined to correct people talking out of their arse. | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
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Rozza
United Kingdom45 Posts
On September 21 2010 05:02 sluggaslamoo wrote: All you had to do in BW was to select your burrowed lurker with an overlord and press hold-position, or attack a building that's out of range. You didn't have to spam anything. (You know this might be possible with siege tanks already, i dunno) I'm not actually sure whether this is a good idea or not, it really only had application with the lurker in BW, although it could be interesting with other long range damage units or invisible units. I don't really care that much, I just feel inclined to correct people talking out of their arse. Yes what an endearing personality trait, i hope you feel better now after correcting those of us who are misinformed and are obviously a lower life form than your exalted self. personally i've never done the h position + overlord trick, and have had to spam the stop button, but then i dont see the benefits of you're method anyway (in a game situation) Thank you for your input | ||
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ocdscale
United States61 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote: if sc1 just had a hold fire command, there would be no skill, difficulty, or ingenuity involved whatsoever in hold-position lurkers I don't think there should be a hold fire command in SC2, but if massing "h" or "s" over and over again doesn't prevent your units from attacking, I think it should just my two cents Are you also the type of person who complained about the removal of the 12 unit selection cap because it removed the 'skill', 'difficulty', and 'ingenuity' in positioning. Maybe we should get rid of rally points too, because that makes things too simple. It removes a lot of the skill required in staying on top of your macro. We should get rid of queuing too, of course. And probably hotkeys as well (you should know where all your units are and be able to move to them quickly without this crutsh). This is all ludicrous, of course. How can you possible say with a straight face that a hold-fire command would remove all the skill, difficulty, and ingenuity in using hold-lurkers? I guess the only cool thing about hold-lurkers is that it involves mashing? It couldn't possibly be the tactical thought that goes into positioning them and baiting the terran into the field, right? Or is your position that hold-fire removes the tactical aspect of hold-lurkers? That said, hold-fire should not be added to the game in its current state. It predominately benefits a race and unit that do not need it. Maybe the game could be balanced with hold-fire, but it would require a dramatic rebalancing of the maps and units. | ||
zatic
Zurich15345 Posts
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Quepp42
United States96 Posts
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Broodie
Canada832 Posts
On September 20 2010 14:26 johnlee wrote: Stop trying to make SC2 into a game that you want it to be. SC2 is SC2. It doesn't have to fit this mind-over-micromanagement box that you want it to have. Not saying that Hold Fire is a bad idea but it gets really annoying when people are suggesting myriad ideas that THEY think will make the game "better", when it'll only suit them better to their playing style or to what they want to play. I'm sure the point of posting this thread was to see how the TeamLiquid community would react. Just because someone is presenting an idea like this doesn't mean attack the thread poster, it means attack the post, or else nobody would get anywhere in a debate. IMO Why wouldn't we need this feature? Sure it's an addition to micromanagement but it allows for some plays to remain flawless in the sense of being mysterious. for example: Have a pack of Hydras at the tip of someones base and the enemy doesn't realize it, but then a group of unguided Immortals slip by; in range of your Hydras. Without Hold Fire: Your Hydras attack and break the rally guided Immortals attention on them, and your Hydras die. With Hold Fire: The Hydras remain silent and the enemy has not seen the hidden force. Now you are aware of the fact that he has just begun a production cycle and his units are away from base, giving you freedom to ravage his peons or decimate his tech. That's just one example and there are too many to name, you wouldn't be forced to use it but it would benefit you to. I think you would adapt (just like newcomers do, before they learn hotkeys and groups) Long Story Short I'm all for hold fire. | ||
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kxr1der
United States213 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On September 21 2010 12:41 Rozza wrote: Yes what an endearing personality trait, i hope you feel better now after correcting those of us who are misinformed and are obviously a lower life form than your exalted self. personally i've never done the h position + overlord trick, and have had to spam the stop button, but then i dont see the benefits of you're method anyway (in a game situation) Thank you for your input The benefit is that you can actually macro or do something else, instead of just sitting there spamming stop while your minerals rocket through the roof. Its an ability that added non-apm intensive unit control in BW that isn't in SC2. | ||
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Rozza
United Kingdom45 Posts
it takes around 3-4 seconds for them to reach the middle of the lurkerfield, and then i press ''4'' twice and im back to my hatchery, how many minerals do i accumulate in 3-4 seconds? i dunno, 200-400? Never been is a position where i wasn't aware that the enemy was walking into my lurker-field. Although theorectically you are correct, it is apm intesive, and it does prevent macro | ||
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