EPTthey really need to work on anti-hack programs. the hacks that people can get away with are unacceptable. even valve anti-cheat does a better job than whatever blizzard is using.
Immortal/Warp gate hack - Page 13
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universalwill
United States654 Posts
they really need to work on anti-hack programs. the hacks that people can get away with are unacceptable. even valve anti-cheat does a better job than whatever blizzard is using. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On September 09 2010 06:32 JoshSuth wrote: For YouTube viewers, of course. People who haven't seen this thread yet. It sounds really fake and you don't need to pretend, it's supposed to surprise them, not you. | ||
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Recidivist
United Kingdom62 Posts
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Clow
Brazil880 Posts
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Lightshows
United States58 Posts
On September 09 2010 06:44 lololol wrote: It sounds really fake and you don't need to pretend, it's supposed to surprise them, not you. It sounds really fake because you are already aware that he knows what is going to happen. Otherwise, a person listening that has never seen the replay or read about it, is more than likely not going to think, "this guy sounds awfully fake...". He wants it to seem like he is surprised so he does not spoil the audience's reaction when they see it for the first time. He simply made a youtube video for people to watch man, no need to be so controlling and authoriative. | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On September 08 2010 22:03 Teejing wrote: Please could someone explain me how this can happen? I cannot understand how the praised bnet 2.0 can let this happen. How can S2 create Hon, a game run on servers and 100% cheat/latency free while Blizzard fails with a budget 100 times as big ? I know this reads like a rant, and it is, but i also would like to know the reasoning. Does Blizzard want to save money or is there another reason? I would use google but i have no idea what to search for since i am not educated in server/data transfer/etc... Because more people TRY to break more popular games. HoN didn't have 3 million people within 1 month of release. | ||
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Piousflea
United States259 Posts
And this is a ridiculously simple "hack" (much like burrowed infestors NP), it is neither a major issue or vulnerability. Simply some cruft left over from an earlier version of the game. | ||
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DYC
4 Posts
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axwell
62 Posts
On September 09 2010 08:29 Lightshows wrote: It sounds really fake because you are already aware that he knows what is going to happen. Otherwise, a person listening that has never seen the replay or read about it, is more than likely not going to think, "this guy sounds awfully fake...". He wants it to seem like he is surprised so he does not spoil the audience's reaction when they see it for the first time. He simply made a youtube video for people to watch man, no need to be so controlling and authoriative. imo it would have sounded way more natural if he just said "guys i know something crazy happens in this game but i'm not gonna tell you right now for not spoiling the surprise" | ||
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Tinsil
19 Posts
Probably already been said but just thought I'd throw it in again. | ||
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Shadowed
United States679 Posts
On September 09 2010 00:03 juw wrote: Thats BS. All that needs to be transmitted to the server are the player's actions. The clients will sync the game to the server's version. Server decides what information to send back to client, it really doesn't take much bandwidth to do that even with 200 units. On September 09 2010 00:21 rewsky wrote: Also - HoN has the potential to have that many units on screen with summons and all that. It's actually pretty commmon once you run into push teams. You're both wrong (and really most people in here talking about this). I'm going to only go over SC1 1v1, but 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 are basically 2/3/4 times as bad. CPU and memory are more of the limiter than bandwidth. For example, 200 supply (this can be +/- depending on buildings, overlords, army composition). That has to be done consistently, the server has to be consistently checking 400 units and saying "Ok, Red has vision of X, so he can see Y of Blues units" and then sending it to the client. Scale that up to a few hundred thousand people at least and you start having issues. HoN only has to check 10 units even if you want to factor in towers and creep, 5 summons for 10 hour. You get maybe 150 units (I'm pretty sure this is a gross overestimation). That's HoNs worse case, SC2s is 1,600 units in 4vs4. 150 vs 1,600 is slightly different. You also have to include replays, they would need to be saved on Blizzards servers and pulled down at the end of the map instead of being able to do it on the client. Out of 140,000,000 games, even 0.001% of that would imply 140,000 games were played with hackers, probably an overestimation though. Just to give you an idea, hackers are small portion of the game, and if given a choice between keeping the games running smooth for 99.999% or 0.001%, it's obvious which someone will choose. To get back to the original subject. Personally, I would rather Blizzard spend time fixing the bug that you can use a spell that's not intended to be used by players, rather than just nuking one spell. The idea that Blizzard should just "comment out a database entry" to fix it is silly. Which isn't to say Blizzards perfect or they couldn't improve security, but most people don't seem to understand scaling or really security in general. TLDR: Stop pretending you know what you're talking about and saying that Blizzard can do it because a game with an immeasurable amount of users compared to SC2 can do it. Here's a fun idea, 46,576,696 games have been played in the US, call it 23,288,348 because everyone played each other. SC2 has been out for (about) 41 days, or 984 hours. 23,000 games are played an hour as a very rough average and the number is higher or lower in real time. It's not like each server only has one or two games playing on it at any one time. | ||
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Eleven-
United States11 Posts
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WarChimp
Australia943 Posts
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Champi
1422 Posts
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MisterD
Germany1338 Posts
the starcraft client/server model is very much different from the model used in counter-strike for instance, where mainly the server decides over hit or miss. You may have noticed really ugly delay when running around in first person mode on a starcraft2 custom map: This is caused by that synchronized model, where every client displays the exact game state. unsynchronized client/server models like for counter-strike rely on the server being the deciding entity and sending world updates and every client displays a slightly different world state, which allows for immediate movement without waiting for synchronization, and thus not experiencing this lag. | ||
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Terrakin
United States1440 Posts
On September 09 2010 10:53 WarChimp wrote: Why must people hack its so damn annoying -.- For a false sense of accomplishment.. but seriously such blatant hacking needs to get the banhammer. | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
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Shadowed
United States679 Posts
On September 09 2010 11:02 MisterD wrote: shadow actually you are wrong here. The network really submits only a players actions. All clients in one game use a synchronized random number generator to perform the exact same simulation on all games. Due to this synchronized simulation, out of sync errors like in old starcraft replays or on waaagh!tv (if you ever watched warcraft) could occur: by switching up two player actions, one simulation would totally run out of control, resulting in 90% of all actions being invalid due to the erroneous simulation state, which in turn results in all units just standing around more and more and in the end nothing would move at all and just stand around doing nothing. the starcraft client/server model is very much different from the model used in counter-strike for instance, where mainly the server decides over hit or miss. You may have noticed really ugly delay when running around in first person mode on a starcraft2 custom map: This is caused by that synchronized model, where every client displays the exact game state. unsynchronized client/server models like for counter-strike rely on the server being the deciding entity and sending world updates and every client displays a slightly different world state, which allows for immediate movement without waiting for synchronization, and thus not experiencing this lag. I think you read what I said wrong, or I'm reading what you said wrong. I'm not saying the server runs the game, I'm saying that if SC2 wanted to stop (for example) a fog of war hack it would have to do unit vision checks on the server instead of the client. Compared to HoN, which I assume does it on the server if fog of war hacks don't work as people claim. I'm not saying that SC2 is doing anything on the server beyond the basic communiction. Although it is interesting, I didn't realize they synchronized that much onto the client. | ||
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juw
76 Posts
It's kind of hilarious reading people who think servers come out of thin air and "Because HoN can do it, so can SC!" Shadowed, your argument is baseless because you have no idea how server resource usage scales with increasing number of units and games hosted. Where are you getting your memory usage to process information about 10 units vs 1000 units? A unit is represented by a few bytes in memory so I imagine scaling won't be an issue. Not sure how it scales with the number of games hosted but as long as it is not an exponential, it won't be a problem. If you don't know what that means, google it. Servers are more powerful than you think and (good) developers are not stupid when it comes to optimising their code for large loads. In any case, no one here will know for sure. | ||
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