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Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
August 28 2010 19:34 GMT
#1521
Very interesting nerf to tanks, but reasonnable considering that atm tanks are very cost effective and basically the kings of ground. Would be problematic versus chargelots but at the same time the zealot warp time nerf kinda offsets that.
All in all I think that in all matchups mid-game as well as transitions to late-game will be very interesting.

May seem shortsighted because I'm no expert though.

ps: thanks to Blizzard for listening to community, and thanks for updates and services provided.
o choro é livre
Anzuu
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4 Posts
August 28 2010 19:44 GMT
#1522
Tank and reaper nerf is a good start, BC nerf is pointless.
Ultralisk change is...I dunno, doesn't seem to be too big a deal either.

But nerfing zealots...I dunno, maybe would have been better nerfing void rays. Zealots are a bit too essential to be nerfed; against Terran the EMP bio ball (which remained completely untouched by the nerfs) Toss is going to have an even harder time. Hopefully we don't see Toss also get wrecked by 6pool in lower tier games too much.

If the entire chronoboost/warpgate mechanic is going to be nerfed, it had better just be to discourage proxies and not actually kill all hope of Toss macro. In addition to the zealot nerf, if this means that I only have 15 zealots when I would normally be able to have 25....

Lights out! EMP + MMM ball = gg. Heck, even speedlings can get the surround off a lot easier with toss having fewer units.
"I want you to take a moment and reflect on how much of a failure you are to play like this and still lose." -IdrA to Drewbie
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
August 28 2010 19:46 GMT
#1523
On August 29 2010 04:34 AlBundy wrote:
ps: thanks to Blizzard for listening to community


In their Situation Report Blizzard wrote:
Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels


Personally I'd rather Blizzard WEREN'T listening to the community.
ZergTurd
Profile Joined June 2010
83 Posts
August 28 2010 20:09 GMT
#1524
On August 28 2010 02:11 ]Grey[ wrote:
These all seem like pretty solid changes. Their reasoning for the zealot change is a bit odd though. Were proxy gateways particularly hard to hold off as Terran? They seemed pretty ineffective against Zerg, from my experience, at least.


In my experience yes Zealot proxies are very hard to deal with as T. Unless you scout at 8 food or so and can scout the proxy AND make a bunker in time and have marines.. I'm probably not an expert but as a Plat player I lost to it like almost always.
Fizbin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada202 Posts
August 28 2010 21:07 GMT
#1525
On August 29 2010 05:09 ZergTurd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 02:11 ]Grey[ wrote:
These all seem like pretty solid changes. Their reasoning for the zealot change is a bit odd though. Were proxy gateways particularly hard to hold off as Terran? They seemed pretty ineffective against Zerg, from my experience, at least.


In my experience yes Zealot proxies are very hard to deal with as T. Unless you scout at 8 food or so and can scout the proxy AND make a bunker in time and have marines.. I'm probably not an expert but as a Plat player I lost to it like almost always.


just wall off. rally the racks behind the wall. build at least 1 marine before adding an addon. if he pushes with a couple zealots repair the wall while the marine owns them. then pump some more marines. second rax and get some marauders for the stalkers. problem solved.
just the tip
EliteAzn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States661 Posts
August 28 2010 21:12 GMT
#1526
Personally, I'm just happy these patches won't affect zerg timings (for build orders and such).
(╯`Д´)╯︵ ┻━┻ High Five! _o /\ o_
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 22:24:13
August 28 2010 21:13 GMT
#1527
No Arguments with their intentions.

However I'm not certain if increasing the build time (on reapers) is always the good way to go. People will just plop down another barracks. I doubt minerals is the limiting factor.

Tanks are too powerful because of their smart targeting, they will still demolish ranged units that are light like hydras too well and severely damage clumped lings/zealots. It's not as much their damage.

I remember the Ultra ram thread on TL. I also remember someone saying that perhaps it was intentional to make it so Ultras weren't too strong of a building destroyer.

And as always, KISB, Keep it simple Blizzard.
Lighioana
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway466 Posts
August 28 2010 21:14 GMT
#1528
Changes seems to be in the good direction.
And forgive me nothing for I truly meant it all
EnderCN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States499 Posts
August 28 2010 21:17 GMT
#1529
However I'm not certain if increasing the build time (on reapers) is always the good way to go. People will just plop down another barracks


It doesn't really work this way. The first 2 reapers have to move out 10 seconds later than before. The 3rd+4th ones will be 15 seconds later than before. The 5th+ will be at least 20 seconds later. It takes until you have a very big ball of reapers to make an extra barracks start to make up for it.

Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
August 28 2010 21:45 GMT
#1530
On August 29 2010 06:17 EnderCN wrote:
Show nested quote +
However I'm not certain if increasing the build time (on reapers) is always the good way to go. People will just plop down another barracks


It doesn't really work this way. The first 2 reapers have to move out 10 seconds later than before. The 3rd+4th ones will be 15 seconds later than before. The 5th+ will be at least 20 seconds later. It takes until you have a very big ball of reapers to make an extra barracks start to make up for it.



You can still reach these 10 - 14 reaper numbers using good control.

i rather wanted to see zerg buffed than reaper nerfed in this way because even with 5 second delay per reaper nothing has really changed.

They will simply not build as many reapers, well controlled reapers will still do their job. Giving terran an expansion, map control and setting up for big bio play.
"Mudkip"
SyyRaaaN
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden136 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 21:50:50
August 28 2010 21:46 GMT
#1531


From another forum; in the internal testing build.







Protoss







Zealot



• Build time increased from 33 seconds to 38 seconds.



Observer



• Cost decreased from 50 Minerals and 100 Vespene Gas to 25 Minerals and 75 Vespene Gas.



Carrier



• The build time for this unit has decreased from 120 to 105.



• Build Interceptor now defaults to auto-cast.



• Flux Vanes research now also increases Carrier speed from 1.875 to 2.25.



Mothership



• Cloaking Field radius increased from 5 to 6.5.



• Speed increased from 1.4 to 1.875.



Warp Gate



• Units now take 25% additional damage while warping in.



Archon



• The pathing radius for this unit has been decreased.



High Templar



• Psionic storm now reveals cloaked and burrowed units.



Sentry



• Forcefields are now team-colored.



Colossus



• Colossi are no longer targetable without vision of high ground.











Terran



Ghost



• Armor type changed from Biological-Psionic to Biological-Psionic-Light.



Planetary Fortress



• Attack priority decreased.



Marauder



• Bonus damage no longer applies to structures.



Viking



• The damage done by this unit in Fighter Mode has changed from 10 (+4 armored) to 8(+6 armored).



Siege Tank



• Damage changed from 50 to 35(+15 armored).



• Weapon upgrade bonus decreased from +5 to 2(+3 armored).



Reaper



• Build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds.



Raven



• Seeker Missile range has been increased from 6 to 9.



• Seeker Missile splash radius has been increased from 2 to 2.4



SCV:



• Repairing an attacking unit or building now increases SCV attack priority.



Thor



• Thor model updated to reflect availability of 250mm cannon research.



• 250mm Cannon can now be used on neutral and friendly structures.



• Can now use Javelin missiles on Colossi. Player must manually Target the Colossi while outside of the range of Thor’s Hammer to activate.



Missile Turret



• Damage has been decreased from 12 to 8(+4 armored).



Battlecruiser



• Ground attack damage decreased from 10 to 8.



• Speed increased from 1.41 to 1.875.







Zerg







Queen



• Spawn larva energy cost decreased from 25 to 20.



• New ability: Nest- binds Queen to targeted Hatchery, casting spawn larva every 50 seconds. Cannot attack or use abilities while nested.



Burrow



• Zerg units now receive +1 regeneration while burrowed in creep.



Roach



• Burrowed move speed increased from 1.4 to 2.



Infestor



• Neural Parasite research requirement removed.



• Can no longer be used on unit type psionic.



Ultralisk



• Head Attack removed. Kaiser Blades now used against buildings.



• Kaiser Blades damage decreased from 15 (+25 armored) to 15 (+20 armored).



Nydus Worm



• Now benefits from Burrow research. When using burrow, the Nydus Worm retreats beneath ground over 10 seconds. If it burrows without being destroyed, its 100/100 resource cost is returned to the player.



Overlord/Overseer



• Pneumatized Carapace cost decreased from 100/100 to 50/50.











Bug Fixes



• Fixed an issue with cloaked units casting shadows.



• Fixed an issue where players were not receiving the Collector’s Edition Thor.



• Fixed an issue causing increased frequency of play between random and arranged teams.















General







• Multi-threading improved.



• Rally points can now be issued an attack move command.



• Players may now rebind keys through the UI.



• In the gameplay options menu, players may now toggle whether or not control groups are clickable.



• Players may now adjust the gamespeed of challenges.





Meh, doubt all of them will happen. I mean, auto cast spawn larvae? No way. Some of them will hopefully will change/remove wtvr. Some people say its fake but you never know.



Found these on the battle.net forums, might be fake, might be true, who knows? :D

Link can be found here:

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/441827774
No Quote
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
August 28 2010 21:47 GMT
#1532
I wish they'd talk about fixing maphack, it's making the game unplayable for me. I've been maphacked 3 times now and every time it ruins the ladder for me a bit more.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 28 2010 21:47 GMT
#1533
Reaper needs to lose their ridiculous bonus damage against buildings imo. No reason a 50/50 unit should be so maneuverable and powerful. 5 second doesn't fix jack.
rip passion
xnub
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada610 Posts
August 28 2010 21:54 GMT
#1534
On August 29 2010 06:46 SyyRaaaN wrote:
Show nested quote +


From another forum; in the internal testing build.







Protoss







Zealot



• Build time increased from 33 seconds to 38 seconds.



Observer



• Cost decreased from 50 Minerals and 100 Vespene Gas to 25 Minerals and 75 Vespene Gas.



Carrier



• The build time for this unit has decreased from 120 to 105.



• Build Interceptor now defaults to auto-cast.



• Flux Vanes research now also increases Carrier speed from 1.875 to 2.25.



Mothership



• Cloaking Field radius increased from 5 to 6.5.



• Speed increased from 1.4 to 1.875.



Warp Gate



• Units now take 25% additional damage while warping in.



Archon



• The pathing radius for this unit has been decreased.



High Templar



• Psionic storm now reveals cloaked and burrowed units.



Sentry



• Forcefields are now team-colored.



Colossus



• Colossi are no longer targetable without vision of high ground.











Terran



Ghost



• Armor type changed from Biological-Psionic to Biological-Psionic-Light.



Planetary Fortress



• Attack priority decreased.



Marauder



• Bonus damage no longer applies to structures.



Viking



• The damage done by this unit in Fighter Mode has changed from 10 (+4 armored) to 8(+6 armored).



Siege Tank



• Damage changed from 50 to 35(+15 armored).



• Weapon upgrade bonus decreased from +5 to 2(+3 armored).



Reaper



• Build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds.



Raven



• Seeker Missile range has been increased from 6 to 9.



• Seeker Missile splash radius has been increased from 2 to 2.4



SCV:



• Repairing an attacking unit or building now increases SCV attack priority.



Thor



• Thor model updated to reflect availability of 250mm cannon research.



• 250mm Cannon can now be used on neutral and friendly structures.



• Can now use Javelin missiles on Colossi. Player must manually Target the Colossi while outside of the range of Thor’s Hammer to activate.



Missile Turret



• Damage has been decreased from 12 to 8(+4 armored).



Battlecruiser



• Ground attack damage decreased from 10 to 8.



• Speed increased from 1.41 to 1.875.







Zerg







Queen



• Spawn larva energy cost decreased from 25 to 20.



• New ability: Nest- binds Queen to targeted Hatchery, casting spawn larva every 50 seconds. Cannot attack or use abilities while nested.



Burrow



• Zerg units now receive +1 regeneration while burrowed in creep.



Roach



• Burrowed move speed increased from 1.4 to 2.



Infestor



• Neural Parasite research requirement removed.



• Can no longer be used on unit type psionic.



Ultralisk



• Head Attack removed. Kaiser Blades now used against buildings.



• Kaiser Blades damage decreased from 15 (+25 armored) to 15 (+20 armored).



Nydus Worm



• Now benefits from Burrow research. When using burrow, the Nydus Worm retreats beneath ground over 10 seconds. If it burrows without being destroyed, its 100/100 resource cost is returned to the player.



Overlord/Overseer



• Pneumatized Carapace cost decreased from 100/100 to 50/50.











Bug Fixes



• Fixed an issue with cloaked units casting shadows.



• Fixed an issue where players were not receiving the Collector’s Edition Thor.



• Fixed an issue causing increased frequency of play between random and arranged teams.















General







• Multi-threading improved.



• Rally points can now be issued an attack move command.



• Players may now rebind keys through the UI.



• In the gameplay options menu, players may now toggle whether or not control groups are clickable.



• Players may now adjust the gamespeed of challenges.





Meh, doubt all of them will happen. I mean, auto cast spawn larvae? No way. Some of them will hopefully will change/remove wtvr. Some people say its fake but you never know.



Found these on the battle.net forums, might be fake, might be true, who knows? :D

Link can be found here:

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/441827774



They were fake
Loving the beta !! Weeeeeeee
SyyRaaaN
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden136 Posts
August 28 2010 21:56 GMT
#1535



They were fake


Damn, some of those changes looked fresh :D
No Quote
Morphs
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands645 Posts
August 28 2010 21:56 GMT
#1536
Indeed, obviously fake because of the remark "From another forum" without naming said forum and of course because of the inject energy cost change to 20 energy... complete BS.

Some of the changes would be nice though, like OL speed to 50/50 and +1 regen while burrowed on creep.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
August 28 2010 21:58 GMT
#1537
those fake changes would be very awesome.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
heishe
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany2284 Posts
August 28 2010 22:02 GMT
#1538
those notes are 100% fake.
If you value your soul, never look into the eye of a horse. Your soul will forever be lost in the void of the horse.
esaul17
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada547 Posts
August 28 2010 22:11 GMT
#1539
The toss nerf makes me a sad panda. The only unit half-decent against marauders until T3 getting nerfed will make it even tougher for toss to deal with early game aggression. I feel like Toss have more near useless units than any other race in addition to the hardest time switching between tech paths. I'm not sure why blizzard has decided to nerf them patch after patch after patch since the beginning, refuse to address how difficult PvT bio timing attacks can be before toss can get storm, and instead just make things worse and worse.

Siege tank nerf was was good, and the other nerfs seem good for TvZ, I feel like PvT's early to midgame makes it very hard for toss to make it to late game without a disadvantage, and by late game they are barely even at best anyway.
xnub
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada610 Posts
August 28 2010 22:17 GMT
#1540
On August 29 2010 06:46 SyyRaaaN wrote:
Show nested quote +


From another forum; in the internal testing build.







Protoss







Zealot



• Build time increased from 33 seconds to 38 seconds.



Observer



• Cost decreased from 50 Minerals and 100 Vespene Gas to 25 Minerals and 75 Vespene Gas.



Carrier



• The build time for this unit has decreased from 120 to 105.



• Build Interceptor now defaults to auto-cast.



• Flux Vanes research now also increases Carrier speed from 1.875 to 2.25.



Mothership



• Cloaking Field radius increased from 5 to 6.5.



• Speed increased from 1.4 to 1.875.



Warp Gate



• Units now take 25% additional damage while warping in.



Archon



• The pathing radius for this unit has been decreased.



High Templar



• Psionic storm now reveals cloaked and burrowed units.



Sentry



• Forcefields are now team-colored.



Colossus



• Colossi are no longer targetable without vision of high ground.











Terran



Ghost



• Armor type changed from Biological-Psionic to Biological-Psionic-Light.



Planetary Fortress



• Attack priority decreased.



Marauder



• Bonus damage no longer applies to structures.



Viking



• The damage done by this unit in Fighter Mode has changed from 10 (+4 armored) to 8(+6 armored).



Siege Tank



• Damage changed from 50 to 35(+15 armored).



• Weapon upgrade bonus decreased from +5 to 2(+3 armored).



Reaper



• Build time increased from 40 to 45 seconds.



Raven



• Seeker Missile range has been increased from 6 to 9.



• Seeker Missile splash radius has been increased from 2 to 2.4



SCV:



• Repairing an attacking unit or building now increases SCV attack priority.



Thor



• Thor model updated to reflect availability of 250mm cannon research.



• 250mm Cannon can now be used on neutral and friendly structures.



• Can now use Javelin missiles on Colossi. Player must manually Target the Colossi while outside of the range of Thor’s Hammer to activate.



Missile Turret



• Damage has been decreased from 12 to 8(+4 armored).



Battlecruiser



• Ground attack damage decreased from 10 to 8.



• Speed increased from 1.41 to 1.875.







Zerg







Queen



• Spawn larva energy cost decreased from 25 to 20.



• New ability: Nest- binds Queen to targeted Hatchery, casting spawn larva every 50 seconds. Cannot attack or use abilities while nested.



Burrow



• Zerg units now receive +1 regeneration while burrowed in creep.



Roach



• Burrowed move speed increased from 1.4 to 2.



Infestor



• Neural Parasite research requirement removed.



• Can no longer be used on unit type psionic.



Ultralisk



• Head Attack removed. Kaiser Blades now used against buildings.



• Kaiser Blades damage decreased from 15 (+25 armored) to 15 (+20 armored).



Nydus Worm



• Now benefits from Burrow research. When using burrow, the Nydus Worm retreats beneath ground over 10 seconds. If it burrows without being destroyed, its 100/100 resource cost is returned to the player.



Overlord/Overseer



• Pneumatized Carapace cost decreased from 100/100 to 50/50.











Bug Fixes



• Fixed an issue with cloaked units casting shadows.



• Fixed an issue where players were not receiving the Collector’s Edition Thor.



• Fixed an issue causing increased frequency of play between random and arranged teams.















General







• Multi-threading improved.



• Rally points can now be issued an attack move command.



• Players may now rebind keys through the UI.



• In the gameplay options menu, players may now toggle whether or not control groups are clickable.



• Players may now adjust the gamespeed of challenges.





Meh, doubt all of them will happen. I mean, auto cast spawn larvae? No way. Some of them will hopefully will change/remove wtvr. Some people say its fake but you never know.



Found these on the battle.net forums, might be fake, might be true, who knows? :D

Link can be found here:

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/441827774


it would be more belivable if they made it so + armored dmg no longer hits buildings Not so just marauders + armored does not hit buildings lol. Blizzard would never single a unit dmg type like that.
Loving the beta !! Weeeeeeee
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