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jtgizmo
Congo161 Posts
On August 28 2010 19:29 sleepingdog wrote: but then again blizzard balances the game for bronze/silver 3v3 where it's obvious that one player going 6 factory mass-siege-tanks will own honestly, shut up, hate short sighted idiots who cant see further than their own nose... | ||
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Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
On August 28 2010 19:29 sleepingdog wrote: 6-pool is still ineffective because you can wall off with frickin probes - you don't even need a fast zealot to hold it off still I can't believe blizzard is doing this to the game; they screwed up in warcraft 3, but chaning the fundamentals of protoss' early game just because some noobs lose against other noobs who go fast-zealots is beyond me but then again blizzard balances the game for bronze/silver 3v3 where it's obvious that one player going 6 factory mass-siege-tanks will own So, you are a bronze 3v3 player. It's true that a few Zerglings can be killed with some Probes, but if you chase the Zerglings, you wont get any minerals. Comes down to micro who gets the advantage out of this situation. If the fundamentals of Protoss early game is proxy 2 gate rush, then i guess they change the fundamentals. But, for all other players, it's just beneficial to the variety of viable options early game (like macro oriented builds). | ||
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On August 28 2010 19:38 Nilrem wrote: What about on scrapstation? Walling off wont cut it, and you would have take off the majority of your probes off the line if you wanted to walloff. Lolwut, Scrapstation has huge rushdistances, you will get zealots up in time before... | ||
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Therick
Norway324 Posts
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Sueco
Sweden283 Posts
That is even more true about marauders. Not that they wtfpwn everything in a second like a line of siege tanks do, but that they are retardedly cost-effective against everything that thors and vikings dont rape, when you factor in the power multiplicators of stim and medivacs. Tbh I just wish they'd remove stim from marauders. I mean think about it. Do you really want to be jacked when operating an automated grenade launcher? Joke aside as a Z player. I know lings, roaches, hydras, banes or (haha) ultras are NOT cost-effective against marauders at all. Look at all high-level ZvT games where Z goes ground against MM. No matter the unit composition, Zerg's only answer to marauders is to throw money at the problem, or risk an easily countered air tech switch. Tank nerfs are not a bad idead but Blizzard's love affair with marauders is just silly. | ||
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his_shadow
United States48 Posts
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
On August 28 2010 19:50 Melt wrote: It's true that a few Zerglings can be killed with some Probes, but if you chase the Zerglings, you wont get any minerals. Comes down to micro who gets the advantage out of this situation. lol he means, to place probe at choke to buy time for zlot to pop, just1-2 can hold off 6pool lings pretty well. It's been done for ages in bw. Except now it's easier because workers can hold position. I don't see why ppls qq's about the 5s reduction time for zlot. It in no way makes u more vulnerable to 6pool (cept zlot comes out 5s slower). It does help us Z vs 2gate proxy and 4gate all-ins though. | ||
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greyfox999
42 Posts
Also the reaper increase? Was it really necessary? The tank nerf I can agree with tbh. Mass tanks was brutal against light units (especially for zerg). Oh well, it's Blizzard. I'm sure they know what they're doing. | ||
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Sworn
Canada920 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Hydra will be usefull against terran for other stuff than answer to air cheese now. | ||
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
On August 28 2010 19:29 Melt wrote: Excellent Patch, can't wait! Ultra Buff is quite huge (removing building attack and letting it do aoe against buildings too). Tank nerf enables Zerg to play Hydras (and even Lings if you have more armor upgrades than the terran vehicle attack) against Terran effectively too and thus gives them another build option (thats quite safe) and a strong timing attack. Reaper and Zealot build time nerf seems pretty reasonable too. Can't really understand the BC nerf though.... The ultra was nerfed, not buffed ! How often do you use ultra to take down stacked supply in a game you haven't won yet ? How often do you use ultra to take down a planetary fortress in a game you haven't already won ? And Ultra lost half their DPS against PF ! I will wait the patch and play a bit with a unit tester , but as of now, i do not see how zerg is supposed to deal with PF :/ | ||
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Qzy
Denmark1121 Posts
This is a protoss buff, and not a nerf. Sure you'll get additional seconds on gateway units (zealot only?) but compared to tank nerf and ultralisk nerf, this is a small nerf. Just add one more gateway and we are fine! And no I'm not afraid of 6 pool  . 10 gate and cronoboost out a zealot, and then a sentry - and you are safe!I see this as a huge toss boost, but time will tell! | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On August 28 2010 20:23 Tyrran wrote: The ultra was nerfed, not buffed ! How often do you use ultra to take down stacked supply in a game you haven't won yet ? How often do you use ultra to take down a planetary fortress in a game you haven't already won ? And Ultra lost half their DPS against PF ! I will wait the patch and play a bit with a unit tester , but as of now, i do not see how zerg is supposed to deal with PF :/ Actually, Ultra will now splash those annoying SCV repairing the PF, so u will take them down easier. | ||
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greyfox999
42 Posts
On August 28 2010 14:55 TyrantPotato wrote: agreed. they are creating patches to cater for low level players who most likely haven't even the knowledge of all their units and what beats what let alone any understanding of when to expand upgrade and tech switch. when hundreds of these low level players fill their forums with their jargen its often flooding over the imput of higher level players who actually have valid points about matchups. battle cruisers have never been a problem. they are the T3 "uber ima take 5 minutes of building just for one unit but it will rape lots of stuff" unit. yet now they are managable for a low level players small army to beat. battle cruisers only happen in tvt games, and well that matchup is dominated by tank viking so whats the harm of BCS joining in. and they happen in low level games where the T players turtle up and mass like 5 BC'S. and the other low level players who have yet to understand when their opponent is turtling they expand, and they sit on their 1 base expecting to win. those low level players then whine and get their way. blizz cannot CANNOT start patching this game from the advice of lower level players. You're right, they should just not allow anyone under diamond to play the game at all. Jeez, What was Blizzard thinking letting those noobs onto their servers? /sarcasm A person in bronze has the same input as someone in diamond. This game wasn't created specifically for you and towards your style of play, and everyone can give advice to Blizzard. | ||
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Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
On August 28 2010 20:07 Sueco wrote: Joke aside as a Z player. I know lings, roaches, hydras, banes or (haha) ultras are NOT cost-effective against marauders at all. Look at all high-level ZvT games where Z goes ground against MM. No matter the unit composition, Zerg's only answer to marauders is to throw money at the problem, or risk an easily countered air tech switch. Tank nerfs are not a bad idead but Blizzard's love affair with marauders is just silly. Lings just rape Marauders... Hydras aswell... Mutas too, obviously. It's clear that units, that the marauder is a hard counter against, don't do too well against it  It's just absolutely untrue that any Zerg unit composition looses to marauders.. you obviously have no clue what ur talking about. Marauders damage output rarely is a problem in ZvT because you can easily get around it by not massing roaches, it's the tanking ability that matters. With good micro you can get around it though. I guess in lower divisions, they could be seen as quite imbalanced because they're not hard to micro. The only thing that really is imbalanced about marauders is their ability to snipe buildings extremely fast, otherwise they're pretty balanced. | ||
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Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
On August 28 2010 20:23 Tyrran wrote: The ultra was nerfed, not buffed ! How often do you use ultra to take down stacked supply in a game you haven't won yet ? How often do you use ultra to take down a planetary fortress in a game you haven't already won ? And Ultra lost half their DPS against PF ! I will wait the patch and play a bit with a unit tester , but as of now, i do not see how zerg is supposed to deal with PF :/ At first sight, they got nerfed (everybody can see it because there was a number that got reduced..) But i think that removing the building attack was a quite big buff. Ultras are used to tank aoe damage and to enter turtling players bases. Later game, players will often build bunkers, depots or engineering bays to block you from entering their tank line straight up or you can enter walled off bases easier. sry for double post | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On August 28 2010 20:23 Tyrran wrote: The ultra was nerfed, not buffed ! How often do you use ultra to take down stacked supply in a game you haven't won yet ? How often do you use ultra to take down a planetary fortress in a game you haven't already won ? And Ultra lost half their DPS against PF ! I will wait the patch and play a bit with a unit tester , but as of now, i do not see how zerg is supposed to deal with PF :/ No, they didn't, the ram attack is a lot slower than the kaiser blades. In fact, the regular attack currently deals slightly higher dps and after the -5 damage nerf it will deal slightly less, but still very far from a 50% reduction. | ||
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
Psionic armor meaning they'll only take 35 damage each hit with their 350 shield/10hp. That's with 0/0/0 11 direct hits to kill it. I'm now soooo favoring archons to take up on tanks. | ||
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Qzy
Denmark1121 Posts
On August 28 2010 20:43 shannn wrote: I don't know but has anyone mentioned that Archons are soooooooooo gonna be good vs tanks? Psionic armor meaning they'll only take 35 damage each hit with their 350 shield/10hp. That's with 0/0/0 11 direct hits to kill it. I'm now soooo favoring archons to take up on tanks. That's so sexy... Now get some shield upgrades for that bad boy, and see how many hits he can take! . | ||
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